I don't understand hacks

[Chris++]

Okay, let me ask this tactfully and pleasantly, so as not to turn this into a thread on fire. Why, when someone takes a few hours to change a couple of the graphics in a game, does AtariAge present it like it's a special event -- and why do people bother presenting the results of their cute little game-altering pasttimes like they're magnificent creations?

 

What you do with your time is your business, and probably fascinating for you. Terrific, absolutely wonderful, go get 'em tiger, etc. But showing the entire community every little change you make to an old game seems a bit silly, don't you think? You haven't made anything new. You've added nothing to the classic gaming community; it's an exercise, and nothing more. Now, maybe you never pretended that you were making anything new, fine; but maybe someone can answer the following question for me without insulting me (the question being, "Who cares about these little hacks? And why?").

 

Even a twelve-year-old can change a graphic, for godsakes. I am NOT insulting, putting down, or even rolling my eyes at the hacks or the hackers themselves -- it's fun to mess around with your favorite old games. I've changed a graphic or two plenty of times, but I never felt inclined to share the results with a whole bunch of people.

 

I guess I simply don't understand why these things are presented like they're new titles. The novelty of the Hack will go straight down the tubes, making them more common than actual titles as more and more people learn how to change this character or that. Are most 2600 enthusiasts so desperate for new games that they'll take anything, even a game that already existed, slightly changed?

 

 

CF

 

P.S. Now, if Moycon could only get one of those sandwiches to really show up in a game, we'd have something!

[Snider-man]

Chris, I was tempted to answer you. I donned my asbestos suit and everything in anticipation of the inferno yet to come. But I've decided to let someone else joust with you. You tire me out.

[Albert]

I guess I simply don't understand why these things are presented like they're new titles. The novelty of the Hack will go straight down the tubes, making them more common than actual titles as more and more people learn how to change this character or that. Are most 2600 enthusiasts so desperate for new games that they'll take anything, even a game that already existed, slightly changed?

 

We don't present Hacks as if they're new titles, we clearly label them as Hacks of existing titles. If you look at our 2600 Hacks page, we define what a Hack is, and we also keep the Hacks separate from our main database so people do not confuse them with commercially-released titles (and/or homebrews).

 

Hacks are interesting in that the 2600 is one of the few consoles where it's relatively easy to modify the graphics (or some other aspect of the game) to create a slightly different version of an existing game. While there may be 20 hacks of Space Invaders, there are other hacks that go further than simply modifying a few pixels here and there. For instance, Mr. Roboto adds a four+ minute soundtrack to the game! Or how about Asteroids DC+ that lets you use the Driving Controllers instead of the joystick?

 

Some people who start hacking games may go on to develop their own games from scratch. Look at Tim Snider, who hacked Venture to turn it into Venture II. He's now working on his own game, The Ravenous Dead. Hacking games can be a stepping stone onto bigger and better things.

 

Also, we generally don't post a single hack by itself as "news", usually we put several new hacks up together at the same time and then announce six or so at once. Only the more involved hacks, such as Mr. Roboto, will get their own airtime. The news we post to our front page isn't just Atari news in general, but also for changes and additions we make to AtariAge. You are free to ignore the hacks if they are something that doesn't tickle your fancy.

 

..Al

[Adrian M]

I myself am interested in hacks ONLY if they fundamentally improve on the game. The Pac-Man, Mario Bros, Galaxian and Asteroid remakes are great examples of this as they make the experience of playing the game more true to the arcade version. It's hacks like these that deserve to be commended, since they are more than just quick graphical tweaks.

 

But the stuff like turning the Pele's Soccer sprites into coffee cups and the countless Space Invaders hacks don't do anything for me. Not to take anything away from them due to the high degree of difficulty involved in doing anything on the 2600.

[+Cafeman]

I also am not that interested in most hacks.

 

I played a number of hacks that I enjoyed -- Fat Albert, for example. That hack totally changed an uninteresting game into an interesting game, to me.

 

I also played Mr. Roboto -- that was a worthwhile hack too, since it added that excellent song to a great game, Berzerk. Worthwhile!

 

Megamania has always been a great game to me, and I played Ventrra's hack just last night and enjoyed it, there were lots of graphical changes and I enjoyed it. So as you see, I am not "anti-hack".

 

Still, there are an overabundance of them anymore, it seems, and I would just like to suggest that any future hacks need to use some creativity to keep this hobby interesting.

 

Use of color, for example. What if somebody changed a game to a gray-scale B&W game, like one of the old horror films? Maybe it would work? then in another level of the same game, change it to funky colors. Something interesting, more interesting than simple sprite changes, you know. then again, maybe this is another dull novelty that won't really appeal to me or others, I can't tell till I see it.

 

Another idea -- could somebody find a way to hack 2600 Donkey Kong? Just make Mario hang in the air for an extra couple frames, so you can clear barrels in a standing jump. Also, find some space to give some closure to the game (yes, I've been reading the Digital Press board...) -- turn the DK sprite upside down or cause him to fall. Or FROWN or something. Now that makes the game more interesting to me. Can it be done?

 

A further idea that I like is taking a game and totally changing its motif into another game, like Fat Albert changed Fast food. There are already hacks like this aren't there? But just changing the Defender to read "Independence Day" isn't really enough, there should be enough visual changes to make it stand out a bit more.

 

Just some thoughts ... I hope I can hack a 2600 game some day.

[Chris++]

Hacking games can be a stepping stone onto bigger and better things.  

 

I completely agree. But I'd much rather wait, and see an actual new game, because it represents an actual creation.

 

Like I said, it's not necessary to act as though this is an argument, because I'm absolutely NOT TRYING TO PUT ANYBODY DOWN IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. I guess what I'm asking is more in the vein of Adrian and Cafeman's comments -- significant changes, like the Robotron thing, are right on the verge (i.e. I could see why that could be interesting to some people, and it was done very well); I meant something more along the lines of not comprehending why people feel inclinced to fill the databases with every single tiny change.

 

Just a harmless question, kiddos. And thanks for the straight answers. I agree with you, Al -- it's a stepping stone that will lead to greater things. Perhaps I perceived more hoopla attached to all the little hacks than there actually is, and I'm perfectly willing to admit anything I've taken too seriously that people are just curious about as a lark.

 

Chris again

[a light in the black]

I have recently returned to the Atari world. I would like to acquire a hack of the expanded adventure. How can i do this. thank you

[Snider-man]

Expanded adventure? Uh, is this one of the Adventure hacks? Anyone? Clarifications?

[Chris++]

This would definitely be Nukey's area. Has he been gone a while, or is it just me? (Maybe my annoyingly provocative threads chased him away?)

 

 

 

CF

[Varan]

I think hacks are fine and am actually glad to see thay are identified as such... I mean aren't Woody Woodpecker Racing and Muppet Racing for Playstation just elaborate hacks of CTR which is essentially a hack of Mario Cart?

[Chris++]

I think it would be more accurate to call those "rip-offs," which certainly are in plentiful supply, even within the official 2600 and third-party catalogues.

 

 

 

CF

[Rhindle The Red]

I think hacks are fine and am actually glad to see thay are identified as such...  I mean aren't Woody Woodpecker Racing and Muppet Racing for Playstation just elaborate hacks of CTR which is essentially a hack of Mario Cart?

No, those are 'clones', 'rip-offs', etc. A hack is where the vast majority of the code is kept intact while details are changed.

 

I am kind of responsible for the whole hack thing here at AtariAge, since it was my release of Return of Mario Bros. that kicked the whole thing off. My hacks are for my own amusement, but I like to share them with the world. Return of Mario Bros. was meant as a tribute to the original programmer, who did a bang up job with the gameplay (the 2600 was not meant to do such things), but did not have the ease of graphic editing available today. I wanted the look to match the gameplay. I worked very hard on it for a long time and wanted other 2600 fans to have the opportunity to play it.

 

Spice Invaders was an inside joke for Spice Girls fans. (They actually released a song called "Spice Invaders" as well as "Outer Space Girls.") Again, I'd done the work, why not share it.

 

Donkey Claus was my Christmas present to AtariAge last year. A very quick hack, it's just to bring a giggle at holiday time.

 

Any future hacks I do (and I am working on a few) are more along the lines of Return of Mario Bros., having a specific useful purpose. I agree that some of the hacks are really silly, but that's the thing about them. They are about (usually) ordinary people, with little or no programming ability, putting their personal stamp on a game to amuse others. If others aren't amused, then so be it. I think having an all-inclusive databank of hacks is fine. I mean, you wouldn't suggest the IMDb remove all the crappy movies and only keep the ones that are "worthwhile", would you? Who's to say which ones are and which ones aren't?

 

You don't want the police department to look foolish?

What do you think Im going to look like chasing around after ghosts in this full dress suit?

[+Cafeman]

So how about my Donkey Kong idea then?

[Jetboot Jack]

Varan - you don't code (certainly not for a living) do you?

 

Whilst thematically similar titles maybe percived as rip off titles by some player's or consumers - I would certainly say that just because Nintendo revitalized cart racing that does not make other cart games invalid (there were racing titles before Mario Kart)....

 

CTR may be quite close to Mario Cart on a thematic level - cute guys in small carts - anyone who has played it can tell you it is a long way away from Mario Cart in gameplay, level design, graphical performance (its real polygonal for start) etc....

 

Most 2600 hacks add nothing, they are a waste of binary space - the ones we do see that are good are generally GRAPHICAL overhauls.

 

I loved the Return of Mario Brothers and the NEW Galaxian hacks - the ones that show what a couple of extra weeks of effort or some artistic input whould have yeilded if Atari (or whoever) had invested time and resources.

 

Lets face it no one has produced a beter than original hack on an Activision title like Rhindle has on Mario Brothers (even Robot Tank TC)! Activison games were very well made, to high standards in all areas - gameplay and grafix!

 

sTeVE

[Thomas Jentzsch]

So how about my Donkey Kong idea then?

Changing the gameplay or even some colors requires some more understanding of programming the 2600. You have to be able to disassemble the game, read the code and e.g. find where the colors are stored.

 

Hacking the graphics is much, much easier, because without any programming knowledge you (yes, you too! ) can "see" them in the code and, with the existing tools, easily change them in a minute.

 

I agree, IMO a lot of the hacks are not very interesting, mainly because they are often restricted to change a few graphics (without the ability to change the colors too). But some hacks (including my own, I hope) add some real value to the game, like great new music, different controllers, different maps etc.

 

But if somebody wants to start with a simple graphics hack, why not? You only should know that this is far, far away from being able to program something. During the time it takes to write one simple new game, you could easily hack the graphics of hundreds existing ones.

[Snider-man]

Huzzah. Well-put, Thomas. There is some intrinsic value to hacks if they *add* something to the original.

 

As Thomas pointed out, many of the favorite hacks give some new dimension to an old favorite - a new controller scheme (many of Thomas' controller hacks), a rockin' soundtrack (Combat Rock, Mr. Roboto), a new maze/map/layout, etc. Even hacks like Better Pac-Man and Return of Mario Bros. are improvements simply for making the game look and play more like the original arcade versions. (Better Pac-Man even has the opening theme from the original now!

 

True, anyone can hack the graphics of an existing game. But the best hacks are those that strive to improve the gameplay - or at least make it more enjoyable for the player.

[NE146]

question being, "Who cares about these little hacks? And why?")

 

Well I do! or rather I did... And I'll tell you why because like it or not, here's my story:

 

Well I agree and disagree to a certain point. I've created 2 hacks myself (arcade invaders and 'vector' asteroids. However in my case, I created them years ago (in the dark days way before Atariage) when the process wasn't exactly easy, nor documented, and for that matter not expected to generate ANY interest whatsoever! (heck I didn't know anyone back then who did these and I thought I was pretty kooky for trying it myself)

 

I did them for pretty much only for fun, and of course to satisfy my own 20 year craving for real arcade Space Invader graphics. When I was a kid, I was one of the few who was dissapointed with 2600 Space Invaders and wanted the "real" invader graphics right there on my screen. So around 1998 while rolling and tossing in bed thinking about it, I got up that night and did it! Whammo, Blammo! instant arcade invaders and that chapter was closed. However since then, as we know, Space Invaders has now become the all time most hacked game on the 2600 with the invader sprites being hacked to become everything from pacman characters to the letters in a kid's name to even the Spice Girls. But my intentions were purely for my own selfish reasons in seeing arcade graphics on my 2600.

 

Anyway to continue my story, as time passed and I saw there were obviously other 2600 enthusiasts out there (as evidenced by their websites) so I sent the .bin file around via email to share. One of the recipients was Matthew Holmes at gameover.net (http://www.gameovernet.co.uk). He wrote back and said he loved the invaders, but he's always wondered if it was possible to change Asteroids to 'vector' graphics... Now of course this was impossible, but I naturally knew you could just take out the inner colors in Asteroids and you'd be left with an outline. So for a JOKE, I did it in 5 minutes and sent it back to him saying "here you go! Vector Asteroids! LOL!" But what do you know.. it took off! And soon I found Hozer selling carts of it. It was sort of surreal...

 

Anyway the story goes on with Mathew eventually telling me of another person who had hacked Space Invaders who turns out to be Rob Kudla, an awesome guy who after some initial nudging from yours truly, eventually creates "A Better Pacman"! (but that's a whole other story)

 

However back to the subject, with the popularity of AtariAge and the gathering of so many 2600 enthusiasts, the hacks have truly come out in force over the past year or so, especially since Rhindle's "Return of Mario Bros" (which I LOVE by the way) as he points out above. Unfortunately this also meant a flood of pretty worthless hacks as well quite honestly. So in that sense I can see your point because there are indeed a lot of hacks that could probably just as well been left on the maker's hardrive. I personally have HUNDREDS of altered bins right here on my hardrive, just trust me when I say you don't want to see my Adventure hack with the dragons altered to look like disfigured MsPacmans *shudder*

 

Basically it boils down to there are some worthless hacks, but there are a lot of REALLY COOL worthy ones as well and truly deserving to be in any 2600 enthusiasts rom collection. Whether you should have them in cart form though is debatable.

[atarimastermarty]

I like hacks because of there creativness (is that a word?). But for real everything you like now is coming out for the atari, and theres always comedy. I bought Rambo In Afgahastain, and kabul! and me and my friends always get a good laugh out of them. Games that should've been made like Yellow Submarine are coming out and when the graphics and sound is changed it makes you look at the game from a different prespective. Hacks may not be the hardest thing but Chris when was the last time you made one? I sure as hell cant do it. Some people are just to close minded to spend a $11 on a game that would make you laugh or sing yellow submarine and cry that they don't sing anymore. This topic pissed me off alot, because im a big fan of hacks, and always are getting new ones from Hozer AND brand spankin' new games.

FAT ALBERT RULES!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lost Monkey]

I agree that a lot of the hacks are "worthless" in that they don't add anything to the original. However, the real enjoyment I've gotten out of hacking titles, has been just in the time spent playing around with Atari .bins...

 

I don't see a need for a publishing house for hacks, but having them on AA is no harm.... we're only talking 4k and 8k bins here, its not like hacks of Neo-Geo roms where only the title has been changed from "Metal Slug" to "Metal Slut"...

[Varan]

Ok. I should have never included Mario Cart. The core of my post is that CTR exists and Woody Woodpecker, Muppets, Looney Tunes.... all seem like they are just copies of CTR with different characters. I've only played CTR though so really shouldn't be talking much.... I just see these titles on the shelf and ask, "Why?"

[davidbrit2]

Personally, I like hacks that improve on flaws of the original game. E.g. the moronic graphics of Space Invaders, or the all around pathos of Pac-Man. It's the ones that are more pointless seem like they could have gone without a public release. I've got no problem with anyone tinkering around with an Atari ROM for their own personal benefit. I've been known to play around with an NES tile editor myself. And speaking of the unnecessary releases, what's with Venture II? It's basically Venture with a few more lines on screen. I fail to see how that qualifies as a sequel worthy of a much lauded limited release. (If there's something else really cool that's been added to the game, please tell me so I don't keep sounding like a complete dunce.)

[Thomas Jentzsch]

And speaking of the unnecessary releases, what's with Venture II? It's basically Venture with a few more lines on screen. I fail to see how that qualifies as a sequel worthy of a much lauded limited release. (If there's something else really cool that's been added to the game, please tell me so I don't keep sounding like a complete dunce.)

You are right, the ROM of Venture II is technically "only" a hack of Venture, but don't forget the unique and expensive package. That's why so many collecors love the game.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Hacks may not be the hardest thing but Chris when was the last time you made one? I sure as hell cant do it

Wrong! If you are able to browse the web and post to AtariAge, then there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to hack e.g. Space Invaders. It is really that easy. You can do it!

[Scott Stilphen]

I'm still hoping someone can hack the colors in Pac-Man (or show me how) so that it looks like the early catalog pictures. Anyone?

[Lost Monkey]

I'm still hoping someone can hack the colors in Pac-Man (or show me how) so that it looks like the early catalog pictures.  Anyone?

 

Point me to a link with a picture of the catalog version and I'll give it a shot...