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Retro TV Games market dead?


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#26 lasloo OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 6, 2007 11:11 PM

Weirdly enough, I've JUST now started to get addicted to the retro TV Games. About 2 years ago, I bought one or two of the Jakks joysticks to use as Christmas "shit-they-got-me-a-gift" gifts. They never got used. About 4 months ago, I found them in my closet and decided to go ahead and open 'em up and play them. Now I got get enough of them. Of course it helps that my oldest (he's about to turn 5) thinks they're neat as well (he hasnt yet realized that games have progressed 20 years). So, here we are... he and I playing Pitfall on the Activision joystick, playing Pole Position and Ms Pacman on the Namco joystick and he's utterly addicted to Ghost and Goblins on the Capcom stick. So, now, I'm scouring the net to find more and quite disappointed that the current trend is that its going away.

In any case, I'm currently looking for the Ms Pacman w/ 2 gamekeys... I actually have the one with the single DigDug gamekey... but would like the black key since its suppose to have the truest PacMan conversion. Would love them to come out with a Midway joystick or something with Qbert or Zaxxon or Tron on it.

Dont know why they got rid of the gamekey concept so quickly. Love the idea. Now looking for old Jakks joysticks that are not only gamekey compatible but also there exists a real gamekey for it. Thus, I'm getting the Disney Princess one out there and see if I cant get my daughter addicted as well! :-)

Anything out there that I'm missing? Anybody know where I could find a Ms Pacman black key w/ Pacman on it?

#27 TrekkiELO OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 7, 2007 3:34 PM

In any case, I'm currently looking for the Ms Pacman w/ 2 gamekeys... I actually have the one with the single DigDug gamekey... but would like the black key since its suppose to have the truest PacMan conversion.

Anybody know where I could find a Ms Pacman black key w/ Pacman on it?


That was a Wal-Mart exclusive, however, Jakk's Super Pac-Man and Pac-Man Arcade Gold joysticks, both in stores now, also include the same version you are looking for.

Edited by TrekkiELO, Sun Oct 7, 2007 11:15 PM.


#28 Technosis OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 7, 2007 5:52 PM

So, now, I'm scouring the net to find more and quite disappointed that the current trend is that its going away.


You know I first found the idea very novel and thought that these had the potential to be as collectible as the old Coleco Mini-Arcades from the 80's are now. I think that these TV games are really a victim of over supply and saturation, driving down the overall appeal of them. I think if they had been rare in the retail sense they'd be much more desirable for collectors today.

In any case, I'm currently looking for the Ms Pacman w/ 2 gamekeys... I actually have the one with the single DigDug gamekey... but would like the black key since its suppose to have the truest PacMan conversion. Would love them to come out with a Midway joystick or something with Qbert or Zaxxon or Tron on it.

Dont know why they got rid of the gamekey concept so quickly. Love the idea. Now looking for old Jakks joysticks that are not only gamekey compatible but also there exists a real gamekey for it. Thus, I'm getting the Disney Princess one out there and see if I cant get my daughter addicted as well! :-)

Anything out there that I'm missing? Anybody know where I could find a Ms Pacman black key w/ Pacman on it?


About the game keys, are they switchable between different TV game units? (i.e. could you use a Dig Dug gamekey in a Star Wars themed Jakks TV game?)

#29 TrekkiELO OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 7, 2007 11:18 PM

About the game keys, are they switchable between different TV game units? (i.e. could you use a Dig Dug gamekey in a Star Wars themed Jakks TV game?)


No, they are not interchangeable.

#30 atarilovesyou OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 8, 2007 1:23 AM

Jakks sticks, although fun to collect when the price is right, just don't offer the serious retrogamer anything other than a cool looking joystick.

I've ranted about how poorly Jakks has treated their product line, and they haven't done much to improve them. I did pick up the Super Pac Man, and it's lots of fun...the joystick is an actual fourway stick, which minimizes the horrid control issues with previous versions....like the Ms Pacman controls. I used to think it was shoddy programming, but now I'm pretty sure it's also got to do with a flimsy eight way joystick used for a four way stick game like Ms Pacman....the diagonals are effective dead zones. Although that doesn't explain the random "go the complete WRONG direction" symptom of the first Ms Pacs.

The Pacman Gold stick again, looks really cool...but no new games?...not even Baby Pac man?....why not?....probably the last stick for a long time.

I must say that the Capcom stick is the rarest one out there, I've only seen it twice...I was so pissed at Jakks I didn't pick one up but now I kinda regret it.

#31 A Sprite OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2007 8:38 PM

No exclusive must buy games + decades old outdated technology + a limited library by design. If it's dead, it was a suicide.

Edited by A Sprite, Tue Oct 9, 2007 8:39 PM.


#32 mos6507 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2007 10:48 PM

No exclusive must buy games + decades old outdated technology + a limited library by design. If it's dead, it was a suicide.


Lots of the same people who are making comments like this were overjoyed when these first hit. We are a fickle bunch aren't we?

#33 A Sprite OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:23 AM

No exclusive must buy games + decades old outdated technology + a limited library by design. If it's dead, it was a suicide.


Lots of the same people who are making comments like this were overjoyed when these first hit. We are a fickle bunch aren't we?


When they first appeared the retro market was smaller; I considered both the Capcom and the Taito TV games, but the PS2 compilation discs came out.

Sorry to sound Darwinian, but I couldn't afford both.

Minus the collectors, who can?

#34 Math You OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:38 AM

I think products like the Atari 13 in 1 paddle games are the way for these TV games to go. A few classic console games with a couple of perfectly emulated arcade games thrown in for good measure and the option of one or two joysticks or paddles. Can you imagine a collection of console games with arcade perfect versions of Defender, Pac Man, Centipede or Tempest built in? They would sell like hot cakes at a hot cake convention.

Edited by MRB, Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:38 AM.


#35 S1500 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:01 AM

I think products like the Atari 13 in 1 paddle games are the way for these TV games to go. A few classic console games with a couple of perfectly emulated arcade games thrown in for good measure and the option of one or two joysticks or paddles. Can you imagine a collection of console games with arcade perfect versions of Defender, Pac Man, Centipede or Tempest built in? They would sell like hot cakes at a hot cake convention.


I remember seeing the Williams(or was it Midway?) arcade cabinet for sale at Target. Sadly, the thing just looked half-assed with an all-too-small screen to be fun. A DIY MAME cabinet looked like a better value for your money.

We can all say that the games are outdated with old technology, etc etc. But look at how successful the Wii is. :)

#36 MCHufnagel OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:17 AM

The biggest turn off for me with these things, is the fact they keep using and re-using the same games over and over again. For example take Pac-Man. It's sad to think that Jak's spends money to see how many different sticks they can make with Pac-Man on them. There's literally hundreds of games out there that they can market, yet there's got to be at least a half dozen sticks with some form of Pac-Man on them! :x

#37 S1500 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:33 AM

The biggest turn off for me with these things, is the fact they keep using and re-using the same games over and over again. For example take Pac-Man. It's sad to think that Jak's spends money to see how many different sticks they can make with Pac-Man on them. There's literally hundreds of games out there that they can market, yet there's got to be at least a half dozen sticks with some form of Pac-Man on them! :x



This is true. You end up with overlapping titles among several tv games units. Ugh. The Nintendo pirates sometimes have better game variety, but still with bad games in their consoles. :)

#38 lasloo OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:00 AM

I must say that the Capcom stick is the rarest one out there, I've only seen it twice...I was so pissed at Jakks I didn't pick one up but now I kinda regret it.


I actually have one of those. And yeah, I dont think I've seen it sold much elsewhere either. It is quite a cool joystick! Its got Ghost and Goblins, 1942, and Commando on it. My 5 year old son is ADDICTED to GnG... so much so, that I dont play that one anymore. For some reason, I'm still addicted to the Activision joystick.

Well, if any of these guys... Radica or Jakks... decide to get back on the bandwagon, I certainly would be someone who would probably go out there and buy one.

#39 lasloo OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:06 AM

That was a Wal-Mart exclusive, however, Jakk's Super Pac-Man and Pac-Man Arcade Gold joysticks, both in stores now, also include the same version you are looking for.


Ahhh... thats why its so rare. In any case, I have the Super-Man joystick, and while the Pacman on that joystick is slightly different from the one on the Namco joystick... its still not quite the original. The old tried-and-true Pacman patterns didn't work on it. I saw on some post somewhere that the Ms Pacman black game key DOES have a true blue original Pacman conversion. At this point, I can only assume thats true... I do have the orange game key which has Dig Dug... and the orange key Dig Dug is different and more accurate than the Namco DigDug. In the Namco DigDug it actually fits a normal TV screen and the title screens aren't the same... the game key version is actually the true rectangle verion you'd see at the arcades... it just ends up scrolling on your TV and the title screens are correct. The gameplay is actually different between these two as well, but I'm not really a DigDug expert so I wouldnt completely know how to tell if the gamekey conversion is a perfect one or not.

#40 atarilovesyou OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:13 PM

One things for certain...if you're looking for REAL versions, these sticks ain't the way to go. They're great for collecting and perhaps those are looking for something simple, but the Namco Museum has pretty much all the games you'd want to play.

Too bad PS2 doesn't have very many reliable arcade sticks to choose from....I've tried just about all of em.

#41 TrekkiELO OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:07 PM

The biggest turn off for me with these things, is the fact they keep using and re-using the same games over and over again. For example take Pac-Man. It's sad to think that Jak's spends money to see how many different sticks they can make with Pac-Man on them. There's literally hundreds of games out there that they can market, yet there's got to be at least a half dozen sticks with some form of Pac-Man on them! :x



This is true. You end up with overlapping titles among several tv games units. Ugh. The Nintendo pirates sometimes have better game variety, but still with bad games in their consoles. :)


Jakks did announce their license of the Williams and post-1984 Atari arcade games from Midway, but underutilized it by only producing an individual controller for Mortal Kombat, Gamestop even had its own Williams TV Games (Sinistar, Defender, etc) preorder link put up, but then, just like that, was taken down, what a waste :(

JAKKS Pacific Secures

Games License From Midway For TV Games

MALIBU, Calif. February 16, 2004 -- JAKKS Pacific, Inc. (Nasdaq: JAKK) announced today that the Company has signed a worldwide licensing agreement with Midway to produce a version of JAKKS TV Games based on classic Midway® titles. TV Games is a plug and play gaming system that contains multiple classic games in one single controller.

Midway TV Games will feature top-selling Midway games, including Mortal Kombat®, Spy Hunter®, Rampage®, Joust®, Defender® I & II, Robotron:2084®, Marble Madness®, Smash TV, Super Sprint and Paperboy®. All that is needed are batteries and a TV -- No videogame consoles and no gaming cartridges are required. Simply plug TV Games into the A/V jacks of any standard television set, turn on and play. The lightweight, compact, all-inclusive controller, houses a combination of videogames with all of the hardware built right into the controller. This technology allows gaming fans to enjoy a number of videogames with just one single purchase.

We are excited by the response to the TV Games platform from the nations gaming community, commented Jennifer Richmond, senior vice president of licensing, JAKKS Pacific. We are very pleased to add Midway to our exciting roster of top licenses, and believe their games like Mortal Kombat and Defender will be excellent additions to the TV Games line.

Midway TV Games will debut at International Toy Fair 2004, and is expected to retail for approximately $20.00. For more information on JAKKS Pacifics TV Games line, please go to www.jakkstvgames.com.

Edited by TrekkiELO, Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:41 PM.


#42 Math You OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:59 AM

deleted

Edited by MRB, Thu Nov 8, 2007 5:32 AM.


#43 Zonie OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2007 6:03 PM

Someone can only own so many of these things before it just becomes clutter. That was a big factor in why dedicated gaming died in the mid 1970s. I think it just reaches a saturation point where parents don't want their homes buried in these things.


I was collecting them at first, but then came to that very conclusion. Too much crap.

You know I first found the idea very novel and thought that these had the potential to be as collectible as the old Coleco Mini-Arcades from the 80's are now. I think that these TV games are really a victim of over supply and saturation, driving down the overall appeal of them. I think if they had been rare in the retail sense they'd be much more desirable for collectors today.


I concur.

#44 onmode-ky OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:24 PM

I must say that the Capcom stick is the rarest one out there, I've only seen it twice...I was so pissed at Jakks I didn't pick one up but now I kinda regret it.


I think the Capcom stick was fairly rare in the US, but it first appeared in Canada and seemed to be easily available at Future Shop and Best Buy stores there. That's actually where mine came from (purchased for me by a relative who lives in Vancouver). In fact, there was a whole thread here discussing the Capcom model and when/where it was available. Speaking of the Capcom stick, I recently took mine out and tried to break my high score of 85,000 on Commando but could only scrounge up around 75,000 points. I can't believe I got that 85,000 during one of my first times playing the game. . . . Could it have been just a whole lot of beginner's luck?

If you're still looking for a Capcom TV Game, some online stores still carry it. I think Play-Asia.com does, for example.

The old tried-and-true Pacman patterns didn't work on it. I saw on some post somewhere that the Ms Pacman black game key DOES have a true blue original Pacman conversion. At this point, I can only assume thats true...


That doesn't make much sense to me. Why would Jakks Pacific revamp their TV Games Pac-Man by creating an arcade-perfect version and putting it on the GameKey but then revamp it again later, less faithfully, and put this third version on their most recent Namco TV Games? It seems more likely that the revamp that is on the GameKey got reused and put on the Namco 3 and Namco 4 TV Games (the Super Pac-Man and Pac-Man Gold models, respectively).

Incidentally, while the Namco 4 stick does seem redundant, what with the titles being exactly the same as what's on the Namco 1 and Namco 3 sticks, there actually is some incentive to get it. I confirmed first-hand recently that the current Namco 1 models that are on store shelves really are exactly the same, software-wise, as the original 2003 release (the hardware is slightly different, as you can feel that four-way notch plate restricting the stick's movement, same as on the Namco 3 stick). So, the Namco 4 might be the only current way to get the revamps of the games that are on the Namco 1. That is, the redone versions of Pac-Man, Dig Dug, and Bosconian, for example, which appeared on the Namco GameKeys and, in the case of Bosconian, on the wireless Ms. Pac-Man stick are probably all available together in the Namco 4. However, since I don't intend to get the Namco 4 (I really don't like the way it looks), someone else will have to confirm or debunk this. We've heard already that Dig Dug and Galaxian are more accurate on the Namco 4 than their Namco 1 versions; can someone tell me if the Namco 4's Bosconian has speech and 8-way movement like on the wireless Ms. Pac-Man stick?

Some final thoughts:
- I've updated the Comprehensive Plug-and-Play Listing thread to include pnpgames.20071107.txt, my most recent version. Not only does this latest version include all the plug-and-play games I've come across in the past few months, but it also now includes the announcement dates of a bunch of the older Jakks Pacific TV Games (the double-asterisk dates). I went through the company's press releases and updated my file.
- Recently, I pondered the 18 arcade games in the Atari: 80 Classic Games in One! CD-ROM and decided that it would be quite possible to create an "Atari Trakball" plug-and-play game: Centipede, Millipede, Missile Command, Liberator, and Crystal Castles would make a pretty good package, no? Of course, it's really too late to suggest this. And definitely too late to say that the Atari Paddles TV Game should have included arcade Tempest. Ah, if only.

onmode-ky

#45 George Gray OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:19 AM

My kid and I still get a kick playing these things. He still loves the Flashback 2.0 and that maddening maze game.
Slightly off topice...on the Wii, he plays the virtual console games as much as he does the made-for-wii games.
I don't think retro gaming is on the decline at all, at least, if ten year olds count.

Edited by George Gray, Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:19 AM.


#46 [d2f]Iggy*SJB OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:16 PM

I for one would LOVE to see more sticks come out, or even some gamekeys. What pisses me off, though, is seeing YET ANOTHER stick, with the same rehashed games on it. I've got the first Pac Man stick, the Ms Pac Man(gamekey version), and the Super Pac Man stick. I enjoy them all, but for crying out loud, I don't need another version of Pac Man! I'd pay $20 for a new stick, with 3-4 games on it, as long as I don't already have them. Sheesh! Hell, I'd be happy with a couple new keys to play with, as long as they have NEW games on them. Time Pilot, Berzerk, Centipede, and a hell of a lot more titles we can think of. You can't tell me there aren't lots of choices out there, and sales of prior units should have shown a market. It's a market the companies are killing themselves.

#47 swlovinist OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 1, 2007 3:47 PM

I just would love for them to make

1. A non shitty sturdy controller with a SD slot
2. They could then sell software on the SD cards

Is that too much to ask?




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