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AtariAge Wiki?


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#1 Fort Apocalypse OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2007 10:29 PM

It would be really cool to have an AtariAge wiki we could post info about 2600 programming (especially in batari basic) into, along with homebrew games, etc. See discussion by Batari, Michael, etc. at bottom of first page of this topic for more thoughts on this.

#2 Fort Apocalypse OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 9, 2007 8:27 PM

Sorry to bump, but any chance for an AtariAge wiki? TIA!

#3 Artlover OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:13 PM

It would be really cool to have an AtariAge wiki we could post info about 2600 programming (especially in batari basic) into, along with homebrew games, etc. See discussion by Batari, Michael, etc. at bottom of first page of this topic for more thoughts on this.

There is an AtariAge wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AtariAge

However..... What you're suggesting doesn't pertain to AtariAge specificly, as hosting a public form that people happen to discuss programing on is only a small portion of what it does. Nor is it the only one. It sounds like you want a 2600 Programming or Batari Basic wiki, something that is specific to content it contains.

http://en.wikipedia....ting_a_new_page
http://meta.wikimedi...ting_a_new_page

#4 SeaGtGruff OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 9, 2007 10:01 PM

Actually, we weren't talking about adding entries to Wikipedia. We were contemplating a programming wiki for the Atari 2600, focusing on batari Basic but not excluding assembly programming. I don't think that Wikipedia would be the best place for that.

If I remember correctly, there is a programming wiki for the Atari 7800(?), or Atari 800 series(?), but I can't remember the details.

Hmm, actually, I just Googled for +Atari +programming +wiki and came up with this, among others:

http://www.atari-for...x.php/Main_Page

The format and appearance does make it look like it's connected with Wikipedia.

But actually, I think this is the one I had in mind:

http://atari7800.xwi...ew/Main/WebHome

Michael

#5 SeaGtGruff OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:12 PM

Okay, I just created a public Atari 2600 programming wiki at Wikispaces. The name is Atari2600Programming, or http://atari2600prog....wikispaces.com. It will be dedicated to-- can you guess?-- programming the Atari 2600, which includes 6502 assembly and batari Basic. Of course, since I just created it, there's nothing there yet! :) But my vision is to have interlinked sections on

(1) operating systems, or which types of computers you can use for programming the Atari 2600, and any pertinent information someone might need to know about using a particular operating system (e.g., available editors, assemblers, compilers, emulators, etc.);

(2) editors and programming IDEs you can use, including which ones are available for which operating systems, plus instructions and tips on how to use them;

(3) assemblers and/or compilers you can use, including which ones are available for which operating systems, plus instructions and tips on how to use them;

(4) emulators you can use, including which ones are available for which operating systems, plus instructions and tips on how to use them;

(5) information about 6502 assembly programming, including the legal opcodes, the illegal opcodes, the addressing modes, performing specific types of common tasks, what assemblers are available, etc.;

(6) information about batari Basic programming, including the statements, formatting and syntax, coding samples, includes files and include files (not quite the same things), custom kernels or custom modules, etc.;

(7) the Atari 2600's memory map, including the 6507 processor, the TIA registers, the 6532 chip, the zero-page RAM, the cartridge slot, bankswitching, expansion RAM, etc.;

(8) the various bankswitching schemes, including information on how to program for each scheme, along with using any expansion RAM that is added by each scheme; and

(9) any and all other miscellaneous information relevant to Atari 2600 programming, such as the different television formats, the different color spaces, programming for specific input devices or other periphals (e.g., the SaveKey, the AtariVox, etc.), and anything else anyone can think of!

Obviously, that's a fairly comprehensive list of topics, and it's just tentative, so I don't know how much the actual wiki will conform to that broad vision-- plus there's obviously some repetition in the above list, which is really not so much repetition as linkages between specific topics.

One thing I do ask of anyone who joins and contributes is that, in accordance with Wikispace's rules and regulations, any material posted to the wiki should not violate copyright, proprietary rights, or other protected information, etc. Also, the posting of any coding examples would imply that (1) you wrote or own the code, and (2) you authorize others to use or modify your code. Note that ownership of code would be subject to reasonable interpretation-- e.g., how many different ways can someone perform a vertical sync, or change the playfield color, etc.? Also, any well-known techniques such as the "score" trick, "venetian blinds," "flickering venetian blinds," etc., are presumably freely available for anyone to use (sort of like "public domain"?).

Note that this wiki is not intended to be a repository for ROM images, unauthorized disassemblies of games, etc.

Any comments, suggestions, or other feedback? :ponder:

Michael

Edited by SeaGtGruff, Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:16 PM.


#6 MrAtari2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:24 AM

Wow. Going to hell for an stealing an Atari from homeless people! Awesome!

I bet they stick you right next to Jeffrey D and Charlie when you get downstairs.

Of course, maybe you'll luck out and get to challenge old Scratch to a game of Combat for your soul. At least you'll have some practice. :D



Okay, I just created a public Atari 2600 programming wiki at Wikispaces. The name is Atari2600Programming, or http://atari2600prog....wikispaces.com. It will be dedicated to-- can you guess?-- programming the Atari 2600, which includes 6502 assembly and batari Basic. Of course, since I just created it, there's nothing there yet! :) But my vision is to have interlinked sections on

(1) operating systems, or which types of computers you can use for programming the Atari 2600, and any pertinent information someone might need to know about using a particular operating system (e.g., available editors, assemblers, compilers, emulators, etc.);

(2) editors and programming IDEs you can use, including which ones are available for which operating systems, plus instructions and tips on how to use them;

(3) assemblers and/or compilers you can use, including which ones are available for which operating systems, plus instructions and tips on how to use them;

(4) emulators you can use, including which ones are available for which operating systems, plus instructions and tips on how to use them;

(5) information about 6502 assembly programming, including the legal opcodes, the illegal opcodes, the addressing modes, performing specific types of common tasks, what assemblers are available, etc.;

(6) information about batari Basic programming, including the statements, formatting and syntax, coding samples, includes files and include files (not quite the same things), custom kernels or custom modules, etc.;

(7) the Atari 2600's memory map, including the 6507 processor, the TIA registers, the 6532 chip, the zero-page RAM, the cartridge slot, bankswitching, expansion RAM, etc.;

(8) the various bankswitching schemes, including information on how to program for each scheme, along with using any expansion RAM that is added by each scheme; and

(9) any and all other miscellaneous information relevant to Atari 2600 programming, such as the different television formats, the different color spaces, programming for specific input devices or other periphals (e.g., the SaveKey, the AtariVox, etc.), and anything else anyone can think of!

Obviously, that's a fairly comprehensive list of topics, and it's just tentative, so I don't know how much the actual wiki will conform to that broad vision-- plus there's obviously some repetition in the above list, which is really not so much repetition as linkages between specific topics.

One thing I do ask of anyone who joins and contributes is that, in accordance with Wikispace's rules and regulations, any material posted to the wiki should not violate copyright, proprietary rights, or other protected information, etc. Also, the posting of any coding examples would imply that (1) you wrote or own the code, and (2) you authorize others to use or modify your code. Note that ownership of code would be subject to reasonable interpretation-- e.g., how many different ways can someone perform a vertical sync, or change the playfield color, etc.? Also, any well-known techniques such as the "score" trick, "venetian blinds," "flickering venetian blinds," etc., are presumably freely available for anyone to use (sort of like "public domain"?).

Note that this wiki is not intended to be a repository for ROM images, unauthorized disassemblies of games, etc.

Any comments, suggestions, or other feedback? :ponder:

Michael



for filling in your banks,
there is a lot of information in the user guides which you could reference to maybe,
There is one for the Atari Bbasic stuff, and stella had something up which helped me out big time actually.
I dont have access to links currently but I have them bookmarked at home. somebody here probably will post them later on.
:) it would do good to have a wiki for it, probably bring few more views to these sort of things and ideas. MAYBE we can spark a bigger society of atari people :D :D
lol

#7 Mauvila OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:11 PM

If needed, I can personally host a programming wiki that uses MediaWiki (the same software as Wikipedia). I've had an empty wiki set up for a while now, I've just been trying to think of something to do with it. Anyway, my vision is a base foundation of the original TIA guide, divided up into different pages, and then let the editing/additions begin.

#8 Fort Apocalypse OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:58 AM

Okay, I just created a public Atari 2600 programming wiki at Wikispaces. The name is Atari2600Programming, or http://atari2600prog....wikispaces.com.


Michael, that is great! I was just looking though and they have a space limit at 2 GB for the free version, and it doesn't seem fair to foot you with the bill of anything more than that. I think once images start getting added to it, it could go over that limit quickly.

#9 Fort Apocalypse OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:10 AM

If needed, I can personally host a programming wiki that uses MediaWiki (the same software as Wikipedia). I've had an empty wiki set up for a while now, I've just been trying to think of something to do with it. Anyway, my vision is a base foundation of the original TIA guide, divided up into different pages, and then let the editing/additions begin.


That is very nice of you and anything supporting the community would definitely help!

The only thing I'd worry about using that as the sole wiki for this stuff is would it would be maintainable if you or anyone else did this on their own. In other words, would you do regular backups of it and store them offsite with other individuals that would pick it back up if something happened to you, would you have the money to shell out if it had any kind of hardware failure and be able to fix it within a week, would you be keeping an eye on it to make sure no one was filling it up with advertisements or trashing it, and would it stay up indefinitely (in theory- at least no planned end to it). I'm assuming that Atari funds Atariage and that someone would pick up the slack if Atari ever tanked, so I think this would be the best place for it if possible. Mostly just don't want stuff to get lost that lots of people spend time on.

those are my thoughts at least...

#10 MrAtari2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:54 AM

i bet a lot of trustworthy people would be able to put their hand down and help out though,
lots of people here!

#11 SeaGtGruff OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:34 AM

Okay, I just created a public Atari 2600 programming wiki at Wikispaces. The name is Atari2600Programming, or http://atari2600prog....wikispaces.com.


Michael, that is great! I was just looking though and they have a space limit at 2 GB for the free version, and it doesn't seem fair to foot you with the bill of anything more than that. I think once images start getting added to it, it could go over that limit quickly.

I think we'll see how the 2 GB limit works out for the time being, and I had already intended to upgrade to one of the non-free versions later if need be.

As for images, I intend to post GIFs or PNGs, etc.-- whatever image type gives the smallest file size but without losing image quality, depending on the type of image (number of colors, etc.).

Michael

#12 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:39 PM

It's nice to know what wiki means:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Before I looked it up, every time I saw the word wiki, I'd think about Wiccans dancing around in the woods.

#13 Fort Apocalypse OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:35 AM

Okay, I just created a public Atari 2600 programming wiki at Wikispaces. The name is Atari2600Programming, or http://atari2600prog....wikispaces.com.


Michael, that is great! I was just looking though and they have a space limit at 2 GB for the free version, and it doesn't seem fair to foot you with the bill of anything more than that. I think once images start getting added to it, it could go over that limit quickly.

I think we'll see how the 2 GB limit works out for the time being, and I had already intended to upgrade to one of the non-free versions later if need be.

As for images, I intend to post GIFs or PNGs, etc.-- whatever image type gives the smallest file size but without losing image quality, depending on the type of image (number of colors, etc.).

Michael



Awesome! I'm psyched. Looking forward to seeing it evolve and helping out if possible!

#14 Fort Apocalypse OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:37 AM

For those that didn't see Michael's post, he is working on the following one for everyone's use. You can sign up on this page by clicking "Join" at the top which sends Michael an email so he can put you on the access list:
http://atari2600prog...wikispaces.com/

#15 batari OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:24 PM

For those that didn't see Michael's post, he is working on the following one for everyone's use. You can sign up on this page by clicking "Join" at the top which sends Michael an email so he can put you on the access list:
http://atari2600prog...wikispaces.com/

I see its "protected" which is good in a way, as it should prevent vandalism that plagues other wikis. However, I wonder if it can be open to anonymous viewing but keep editing protected?

#16 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:20 PM

I would like to setup a Wiki here, but I need something that integrates into the forum. I think there are some options, although I haven't spent much time investigating. I'd prefer something that requires users to be logged into the forum in order to contribute, to prevent vandalism and worse, spamming. The forum software we're running is Invision Power Board, so ti has to be compatible with that..

..Al

#17 SeaGtGruff OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:52 PM

For those that didn't see Michael's post, he is working on the following one for everyone's use. You can sign up on this page by clicking "Join" at the top which sends Michael an email so he can put you on the access list:
http://atari2600prog...wikispaces.com/

I see its "protected" which is good in a way, as it should prevent vandalism that plagues other wikis. However, I wonder if it can be open to anonymous viewing but keep editing protected?

It is open to anonymous viewing; only editing is protected. Right now there's hardly anything there-- I've been swamped with other things, and haven't been able to work on it-- and what (very) little is there isn't even linked together yet. :(

Michael

#18 PressureCooker2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:56 AM

It's a great start, though. Good work.

#19 Zereox OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 8, 2007 10:11 PM

This is simply to say that I have a indie devs wikispace with Tutorials,Reference and stuff for Atari2600 check it out if you want:

http://indiedevs.wikispaces.com/

#20 timofonic OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:29 AM

I know this post has a few months, but why so many wikis?

What about merging efforts into one wiki? What about http://wiki.atariage.com ?

#21 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:51 AM

I know this post has a few months, but why so many wikis?

What about merging efforts into one wiki? What about http://wiki.atariage.com ?

Please remind me about this in February. I will be too busy in January to even think about it. :D

..Al

#22 SeaGtGruff OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:31 AM

I know this post has a few months, but why so many wikis?

What about merging efforts into one wiki? What about http://wiki.atariage.com ?

Please remind me about this in February. I will be too busy in January to even think about it. :D

..Al

I think merging them into one, hosted by or connected with AtariAge, is a great idea. And I'll also be too busy during the rest of this year, probably through the end of January, so February sounds A-OK by me!

Michael

#23 timofonic OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:22 AM

Well... I'm not busy really. Just install a mediawiki and I'll start making wiki articles in an obsessive way ;)

http://www.mediawiki.org

I recommend using a compatible license with Wikipedia and then able to share certain content. Compatible licenses are GFDL and solo flavor of Creative Commons. I can provide more info if you want.

I'm ready to run wiki on my server and then we will port it to AtariAge. I'm installing and configuring Mediawiki on my Linux box, but at this moment it will not be available of public because afraid of spammers and leechers.

The most important now is to prepare some structure. I accept suggestions and examples for this.

Edited by timofonic, Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:47 AM.


#24 potatohead OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:10 AM

The small Propeller community has been working on a wiki. Had a good start, then a dead time. It's going fairly good again now:

http://propeller.wikispaces.com/

What we have learned so far:

So far, most everybody gets along with wikispaces pretty well.

It takes a coupla regular contributors, adding content (usually in response to questions), on a regular basis to start to catch on.

Currently, ours has been problem free. Anonymous editing is allowed for the moment. The organizers have e-mail notification turned on, so we see when page edits happen. When we have some problem, we will escalate locking things down, but only enough to address the problem. We've seen a fair number of really great anonymous edits. Would be a shame to see those lost in the future.

Exporting the whole thing to some local HTML file somewhere makes for an easy backup.

We've seen success getting other contributors to contribute via:

- answering forum questions on the wiki, then linking back

- semi regular postings on new content (games, etc...)

- offers to contribute content (PM or e-mail somebody involved with the content) Some people have a little bit of fear about this. It's pretty easy to just take their stuff, put it in the wiki, PM them to thank them and link it for them to see, then include it in a relevant forum thread. Once they see that cycle, it's not so bad to just add whatever they think of next themselves.

- one or a few contributors doing a page a day to collect stuff and put it there, hoping for a snowball (hasn't happened yet, but it's growing nicely)

- wiki links in signatures, or maybe just areas of interest links to specific sections of it, for people to see as they are reading.

The most common stumbling block appeared to be organization and fear of time wasted as there is no king to the castle of information. The reality appears to be those with some passion and or understanding of the topics at hand, will organize stuff over time. End result is not bad actually! We've also had a coupla, "what's a wiki?" discussions where people can ask some questions and get some answers and maybe that "we are working on it, and it's gonna be cool" warm fuzzy necessary.

That wiki is happening as a new community does. (The Prop is pretty new) IMHO, that gives it a shot at being a frequent and useful reference that's better than one started here. The big problem being a lot of content distributed in a lot of places! Of course, that's why one wants the wiki in the first place. Also IMHO, somebody engaging in some sustained effort to really cover one topic, say Batari Basic, is gonna need to happen to get the thing to be seen as somewhat useful and relevant.

Edited by potatohead, Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:28 AM.


#25 SeaGtGruff OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:27 AM

The most important now is to prepare some structure. I accept suggestions and examples for this.

I agree about the need for a structure, although any wiki might tend to develop a (new?) structure as it grows with each new article. And if necessary, the articles could be edited as needed and reorganized into a better structure every so often.

Anyway, my own intentions were to have articles on just about every aspect of Atari 2600 programming-- the 6507 CPU, the RIOT chip, the TIA chip, the Atari 2600's features (i.e., console switches, TIA registers, I-O controllers, etc.), the 6502 assembly language, the batari Basic language, DASM and other 6502 assemblers, the various Atari 2600 emulators, various text editors and IDEs, the structure of a TV scan line and frame, the differences between the NTSC and PAL and SECAM TV formats, the differences between the NTSC and PAL and SECAM color palettes on the Atari 2600, the basics of music or sound (e.g., frequencies and notes), bankswitching, and so on and so forth. Each topic would include programming samples as appropriate. The overall structure would be a brief overview of the Atari 2600, followed by a step-by-step programming tutorial, but each article would have links to all of the more detailed information. For example, "The Atari 2600 contains three chips-- the 6507 CPU, the RIOT chip, and the TIA chip," but then "6507" would be a link, "RIOT" would be a link, and "TIA" would be a link.

Michael




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