JagCF last news before the before the launch of final proto.

[Gorf]

It sure sounds like a lot of people talikng a lot of crap who I am sure never coded a decoder

ring, never mind a video game, but think that it is SOOOOO easy and nothing to it.

 

Well....go ahead..start coding...and after months of hand coding RISC code to run in main

because there are no tools that understand it can be done, after spending 12+ years to really

know a machine, to wring the very best performance you can for the sole purpose of offering

games worthy of a 64 bit machine. Then a bunch of you come back here and give me this

completely bogus crap your are giving me now. Clearly none of you have a clue.

 

I will not spend hours upon hours of months and years of work, with the only pay being

POSSIBLY breaking even for the run of games you had to put up front to package the games

JUST to see it copied all over the place and not even make back the cash you had to put out

for in the first place.

 

No one is paying us for our time coding the Jaguar. We'll continue coding but for our own

purposes. On a viable platform, I would not even worry about it, because hopefully you

would expect enough sales to cover the cost. However, to shell out a few thousand to make

a large enough run of carts, just to watch most of them sit in your basement for years

because some heartless bastard copied it ONCE and uploaded it to a warez site is just not

worth the effort.

 

It will take ONE 256 meg SRAM card to copy the entire Jaguar library and play it for free

on a JagCF...that still leaves room for any future releases....sorry guys...it's just not worth

the effort. The only possiblility of our Jaguar games coming out at this point will be personalized

copies to select buyers we KNOW wont douche us. So if they do , the game will clearly show

who owned it.

 

Of course these will cost more as a result of having to hand burn each seperately instead of

in bulk where we would get a break and just to cover our troubles since we will have to go

through. We tried to set a standard of reasoanbly priced games for the Jaguar in professional

quality packaging. I feel Gorf Classic met and in some areas exceeded this standard.

 

However we do not intend to invest our time and money making carts to watch them sit

forever. If we do make games we will do what ever we must to ensure they remain

protected. CD's can't be played by everyone who owns a Jaguar and is why we don't do

those any more.

 

Bitch and moan all you want about my stance here, but at least go through what we at 3DS

go through FIRST, before you go shooting your mouths off. Oh and I can tell you these flurry

of posts are not helping anyone convince us otherwise. Invest the time and effort of trying

tomake this beast do what it should and then you all come back and see if your story is the

same. If it is your are either better than me or a total glutton for punishment.

 

After my talks with Midway, I have an even clearer picture of just WHY companies protect

what is theirs, even if they have not used it in years. Why give away a souce of income?

Is that why we are in business? I think not.

[Atariboy]

I didn't see anyone remotely come close to saying anything you've posted in that last message accusing us of.

 

"It sure sounds like a lot of people talikng a lot of crap who I am sure never coded a decoder

ring, never mind a video game, but think that it is SOOOOO easy and nothing to it."

 

No one ever said such a thing.

 

"I will not spend hours upon hours of months and years of work, with the only pay being

POSSIBLY breaking even for the run of games you had to put up front to package the games"

 

You're out for profit? How could anyone possibly earn a decent payoff for doing homebrew work? And why would you choose to pursue that on the Jaguar? If your using that logic, I can't help but wonder why you'd even consider developing for this system. I guess I just don't see any potential to earn anything worthwhile beyond personal satisfaction and joy out of developing for the system.

 

"JUST to see it copied all over the place and not even make back the cash you had to put out

for in the first place"

 

Who says that would happen? It's not terribly difficult to produce a Jaguar cartridge, much of this community could with a little bit of time and effort and pirate your future work. And why not code your title to not work on this device since that appears to be possible? And again, people seem to respect people's work in other parts of this community, I don't see any reason to suggest Jaguar fans would be any different. If your fears rest in your work being pirated, I suggest you do what you're threatening us with in order to maintain the security of your work. I hope you change your views in the future, but I don't think any of us want to aggravate you about it.

 

I will add that no one is asking you to code for the Jaguar or release your work. Though we'll all be grateful if you release something in the future that the community wants, and I bet support it.

 

But why'd you release Gorf for? Such a release would be incredabley easy to pirate and sell, and to distrubute online to virtually every Jaguar fan who owns the Jaguar CD since most would have the capability to burn it right on their PC. Has your work been infringed upon you feel by more than a handful of individuals?

 

"Bitch and moan all you want about my stance here, but at least go through what we at 3DS

go through FIRST, before you go shooting your mouths off. Oh and I can tell you these flurry

of posts are not helping anyone convince us otherwise."

 

Just what are you going through? I don't think any of us have to write one line of code or release one thing for the Jaguar to be able to hold an opinion on this device that is just as valid as yours.

 

" Then a bunch of you come back here and give me this

completely bogus crap your are giving me now. Clearly none of you have a clue. "

 

I'm not sure what your talking about here. But I don't think it's us that doesn't have a clue, I think if you were active in things like the Colecovision community and the Atari 7800 community and virtually every other classic system, you'd see that such devices have only had a positive impact on fans of those systems. I'm looking forward to such a device coming to the Jaguar.

 

"Invest the time and effort of trying tomake this beast do what it should"

 

No thanks, I have a different taste on what constitutes a good game. I'd be more than happy to keep playing excellent games like Tempest 2000 that really push the Jaguar in the fun department, and check out about half of the library with this device that I haven't wanted to invest in due to popular opinion on certain games in order to see if they're worthwhile purchases. Not interested in things like Cybermorph that prove the systems technical capabilities in the eyes of some, but aren't much fun these days to really play.

 

"After my talks with Midway, I have an even clearer picture of just WHY companies protect

what is theirs, even if they have not used it in years. Why give away a souce of income?

Is that why we are in business? I think not."

 

I highly doubt Midway views Gorf as a source of income. They resist stuff like this being pirated in order to protect their rights for in the future in case it did turn out to have some money left in it in the future.

 

"The only possiblility of our Jaguar games coming out at this point will be personalized

copies to select buyers we KNOW wont douche us. So if they do , the game will clearly show

who owned it. "

 

I imagine its safe to assume you own a developmental system for the Jaguar? How come its okay for you to have the ability to code for the system and upload games to it, but you resist the community getting similar capabilities for the system? Then you tell us to code for it since we couldn't possibly understand what your saying?

 

Sorry, I don't buy it. Feel free to actually support your viewpoints since I'm open minded, just don't expect things like telling us we're clueless to sway very many opinions. I hope you change your opinions since I think your release of Gorf shows the community you have a lot of potential to do good work in the future.

Edited September 29, 2007 by Atariboy

[JagChris]

I refused to draw any more pictures unless cameras were outlawed.

I refused to write any more books unless photocopiers were outlawed.

I refused to record any more music unless CD burners were outlawed.

I refused to film any more movies unless DVD burners were outlawed.

 

Yes, you're totally right !!!

 

 

GT

 

Most of those are tortured comparisons.

 

You know its funny that in all of this no JagWare member steps forward and says 'look, we're not in this to hurt anyone or support piracy'. Instead we get the above statement by GT which basically says 'yeah some people will use the CF to hurt the community, but so what?'.

 

And I see a lot of posts telling Frog he's being a prima-donna or whatnot and stop worrying etc.

 

And we got this guy here:

 

For me the most important is :

- like catbox and ethernet connection (for playing all aroud the world by internet) with address server for connecting peoples.

- CF card for playing NEW FREE GAMES and OLD COMMERCIALS GAMES (there are no longer avalable in Europe becose jaguar be avalable too late and orignals games are very expencive)

 

i don't like NEW RISC processor (new processors betray original Atari architecture) the jaguar is a powerfull system who have bad developper utility's. PLEASE DON'T ADD IT.

 

guillem

 

This man is basically giving some nonsense reason about Jag games not being available in Europe. Or he doesn't like the prices so he'll steal them. I don't agree with a lot of Carl Forhans prices either. Doesn't give me the right to steal from him.

 

And I don't see any of you guys posting a response to guillem to discourage him from pirating other peoples work. I dont' see any of you having the developers backs on this. Is there no one to respond and to discourage Guillem? Or will you just give silent consent to his thoughts and attitudes and then berate the Frog for complaining about it.

 

I'd want to leave too. Why float all alone in a sea of ingratitude? Its just so disrespectful.

[EmOneGarand]

I refused to draw any more pictures unless cameras were outlawed.

I refused to write any more books unless photocopiers were outlawed.

I refused to record any more music unless CD burners were outlawed.

I refused to film any more movies unless DVD burners were outlawed.

 

Yes, you're totally right !!!

 

 

GT

 

Most of those are tortured comparisons.

 

You know its funny that in all of this no JagWare member steps forward and says 'look, we're not in this to hurt anyone or support piracy'. Instead we get the above statement by GT which basically says 'yeah some people will use the CF to hurt the community, but so what?'.

 

And I see a lot of posts telling Frog he's being a prima-donna or whatnot and stop worrying etc.

 

And we got this guy here:

 

For me the most important is :

- like catbox and ethernet connection (for playing all aroud the world by internet) with address server for connecting peoples.

- CF card for playing NEW FREE GAMES and OLD COMMERCIALS GAMES (there are no longer avalable in Europe becose jaguar be avalable too late and orignals games are very expencive)

 

i don't like NEW RISC processor (new processors betray original Atari architecture) the jaguar is a powerfull system who have bad developper utility's. PLEASE DON'T ADD IT.

 

guillem

 

This man is basically giving some nonsense reason about Jag games not being available in Europe. Or he doesn't like the prices so he'll steal them. I don't agree with a lot of Carl Forhans prices either. Doesn't give me the right to steal from him.

 

And I don't see any of you guys posting a response to guillem to discourage him from pirating other peoples work. I dont' see any of you having the developers backs on this. Is there no one to respond and to discourage Guillem? Or will you just give silent consent to his thoughts and attitudes and then berate the Frog for complaining about it.

 

I'd want to leave too. Why float all alone in a sea of ingratitude? Its just so disrespectful.

Exactly, could not have said it better myself JagChris. As the developers of this device.. Jagware needs to address these issues of piracy themselves, by avoiding the issue your only making yourselves look guilty of the accusations of your intentions for leaving the rom feature in.

[Bill Loguidice]

Again, personally as a purchaser of such "enabling" devices for other systems AND homebrew software - yes, even a genuine Jaguar Gorf CD - I still fail to see why the Jaguar, out of the countless computer and videogame systems that have such transfer devices peacefully and successfully co-exist with homebrew development and active original software acquisition, is somehow unique. In other words, if it works in every other community, why not in the Jag community? The fact that such a device exists also does not somehow make people such as yourself somehow not want to push the Jaguar to its theoretical base limits--you'll either choose to do that or you won't. No matter how many people own a JagCF, it will never be 100% penetration - there will always be a reason and benefit to supporting ONLY the base hardware, whatever its true capabilities may or may not be. Any new product for the Jaguar at this point should be a welcome one and yes, surely someone will abuse the privileges, but there will also be more who don't. There have been developers who blame piracy for pulling out, like Marc Goodman after the legendary Bilestoad on the Apple II back in the early 80s, but then there are others like Richard Garriott, who no doubt had his works pirated ad infinitum, who still received enough sales (and desire to continue developing) to pony up $30 million of his own dough to pay to go into space. I'd say things ultimately worked out for him. He found a way despite what was out there to "hurt" him.

[+remowilliams]

In other words, if it works in every other community, why not in the Jag community?

Because at this point it's mostly become a grudge match between certain parties and their sycophantic soldiers on one side and and well, everyone else on the other.

 

I swear to god there must be some chemical in the Jaguar casing that causes people to utterly loose their tenuous grasp on the modern day reality of the Jag and it's fanbase.

 

Yes all those loyal supporters will suddenly become villainous scummy pirates overnight should they get something that can act as a multicart for the Jag. And don't forget there's millions of people out there who have been lurking in the woodwork all these years to steal the hard earned efforts of Jag devs. Yes, that must be it.

 

Guys - I've coded for a living, and I support 100% the rights of authors/corporations and their protection of IP but for f*cks sake gain some perspective.

[gvia66]

I leave in a smol city, i never view jag games at resonable price (5-10€) always 50€... and by ebay or other internet site.

whe leaving with 700€ month : locaton, food, internet (no telephon)...

 

I like jaguar but the money have a price. Televisor at 4000€ is a idiossy or for people whe have a lot of money.

 

In USA lot of people leaving with credits on is house... Here whe leaving with a job ...

 

be caful

 

guillem

[Gorf]

You all totally miss the point of everything I just postes. Why? You do not give a rats ass.

It shows me you DONT have a clue and are just a selfish fan thinking ONLY of his ability

to gain new games and SCREW what the deevloper has to go through. It is not one bit

suprising you can't understand this. You can't until you go hrough it.

 

CODE THE JAG. Then you will SEE what you need to go through. Try getting the performance

out of it.

 

Profit? How about just getting back what we had to shell out? How about The very post

by people in this very thread making it CLEAR they intend to do exactly what you think

I fear. I do not FEAR anything but Im not going to run in fron of a bus. Do you even think

for a minute w made anything on Gorf? Excuse me while I go laugh that one of for a few

life times.

 

If a cart is so easy to make....I'll give you a year....make one. Also how can any one possibly

equate an official developer kit with a device that is CLEARLY inetnded to be used for romz?

 

As I said, your posts are not helping you other than to seal my decision. The ingatitude and

lack of sensitivity from too large a number of you are pretty much going to ruin it for everyone.

 

The more you try to think you know me, the more clueless you are. I know quite well about the

kuttle carts. I have felt and always maintain those ARE piratedvices for most. You are going to

now tell me straght faced no one is stealing roms to upload to those things? for get the jag games

I was making, I have a few bridges I can sell you all. Just in time too..im broke.

 

You blathering wont do you anygood. Your whinning about waht you do or who does what with

other systems is wasting your breath. I wont clarify my points any more than I have, because

nothing I say will matter. you want gams, free if possible and you do not care who suffers as

a result.

 

If Jagware wanted real help and real deelopers they could have appraoched this a lot

less cocky than they did. Instead they showed no respect for the MANY other developers who

have clearly made reasonable cases. Enjoy your CF...with out 3DSSS games. That is how it will be.

[Gorf]

I leave in a smol city, i never view jag games at resonable price (5-10€) always 50€... and by ebay or other internet site.

whe leaving with 700€ month : locaton, food, internet (no telephon)...

 

I like jaguar but the money have a price. Televisor at 4000€ is a idiossy or for people whe have a lot of money.

 

In USA lot of people leaving with credits on is house... Here whe leaving with a job ...

 

be caful

 

guillem

 

I cant afford a Porche but you dont see me just hop in one a steal it.

[spiffyone]

No thanks, I have a different taste on what constitutes a good game. I'd be more than happy to keep playing excellent games like Tempest 2000 that really push the Jaguar in the fun department, and check out about half of the library with this device that I haven't wanted to invest in due to popular opinion on certain games in order to see if they're worthwhile purchases. Not interested in things like Cybermorph that prove the systems technical capabilities in the eyes of some, but aren't much fun these days to really play.

 

See, that part in bold is what scares off some.

 

Because that "try before you buy" stuff, is, in all honesty, complete bullcrap when speaking about trying a product in its full state. Not a demo, but a full product. That's the problem. The fact is that you are putting trust into a person to take a full product and not keep it, or if they do like to actually buy the real product instead of just keeping the pirated product. And that's just...hell, it's just nutty and way too trusting.

 

This whole "hey here's this pirated thing, try it and if you like it buy it" is nonsense. It really is. Most pirates simply keep their pirated goods, they don't go out and buy the real thing even if they enjoy the product. Why? Because they already have the friggin' product, particularly if it's an exact or near exact copy of the real product, so why go out and buy it? The motivation to buy isn't there. If it's a demo, yeah. Motivation to buy a full product is there. If it is full product, pirated, that is being tried....less so. Way less. Pretty sizable drop in motivation to buy.

 

As for the idea that artists of any sort just want their work out there...that's a Marxist ideal, and Marx was a pinhead. Socialism lost for very good reasons, not the least of which is that it goes completely against human nature. We expect to get appreciation for our work that goes beyond a pat on the back. It may not go far beyond that pat, but it goes beyond it nonetheless. And if we do just expect the pat, it is because we chose to accept the pat only. It is a choice the artist makes, not the possible consumer of the product. Is it realistic to expect major profits on a homebrew/indy game on a "dead" console from 2 gens ago? No. But it's at the very least realistic to want to break even on some level if that's what one wants. That's part of the motivating factor.

 

I'm sure Gorf wouldn't mind if it was just demos, and there was an assurance that he'd be able to protect his property...but that assurance isn't there. Well, it's kinda sorta there, but not really. And that might not be good enough. The older games is iffy. Hell, I'm not even sure where I'd stand there. But the newer ones? They've got to be protected, because what then will be the motivation for people to put in time and effort? A pat on the back, and a bit of pick-pocketing from people downloading it while the devs are stuck with higher bills than they'd have if they could at least gain the most amount of money possible to help offset losses? That simply doesn't work.

 

I will state that if Gorf does want to continue releasing games in development on Jag despite JagCF not having an assurance (a strong assurance) that he'd be able to protect his work, then I'd suggest that he calculate what is needed to break even or pull in a nice tidy little profit (probably very little considering the fact that it's indy work on a "dead" hobbyist console), take the orders and don't ship anything out until the number of orders needed to break even or pull a bit of profit are purchased. Of course this would mean not billing anyone until the orders ship as well.

 

There are ways you can protect yourself in this regard, Gorf.

 

Again, calculate what you need to break even or turn profit and don't ship out until then. Billing is done once the damn things ship, and it would probably be wise to ship them all same day or nearly the same day. Or have a "once the first orders ship all orders cannot be cancelled" policy in place, so in case someone gets it early and leaks it you won't get cancelled orders from some who dl it.

[Gorf]

Yeah, I have to agree with that too. I know of no other platform, including Atari platforms, that have put up such a fuss over the possibility - the user option side effect if you will - of playing ROMs on the system.

 

Other communities are a lot larger and a lot easier and cheaper to develop for. Losing 25% of the market to crooks is not going to hurt as much because you can still sell enough to make it worth your while to release something.

 

You have to assume that the majority of people who are hardcore enough to bother with the Jaguar in the first place, then bother to pay the price for the JagCF, etc., would continue to be "hardcore" enough to pay for new homebrew software releases.

 

Why assume this? I have seen nothing to indicate this is true. What I HAVE seen is people complaining that games are hard to find and too expensive in their country so they need to play ROMz. Everyone knows that you can get used copies of games on eBay for dirt cheap, so we can see where this is going.

 

Copying/enabling/transfer/whatever devices haven't ruined any of the dozens of other systems they've been made for, so why should the Jaguar be any different.

 

Because the market is a lot smaller and the Jaguar is the most labor intensive and costly system to develop homebrews for.

 

The Jaguar dev community - while I have great respect for any developers, particularly on orphan platforms - are the most fragile bunch I've ever come across.

 

 

Being fragile comes from years of being attacked and threatened.

 

The Jaguar "community" such as it is, will never grow at this rate and will be stagnant at best, and decrease in numbers at worst. To my non-developer, but enthusiast perspective, the JagCF can only mean good things for the system's future, not bad.

 

I don't see how the ability to play ROMz is going to do anything to increase the community. If the thing is supposed to have all these whiz-bang features then it should sell on it's own merits rather than on it's capability to steal the work of others.

 

The JagCF guys should be given free reign to build every logical feature in without restriction and leave it at that. I can't really recall any other such development on any other system being purposely crippled in deference to anyone else. It all but goes against the hacker mentality, the very mentality that makes such cool things possible. If people want to pirate, they'll ALWAYS find a way anyway.

 

The JagCF guys should be ashamed for NOT purposely crippling the device out of respect for the existing

developers...let them find a way. They'll find it WITHOUT our games. That's all.

[Atariboy]

They're games that the original developers aren't making profits off anymore, I don't care if I download a rom for Combat or Atari Karts, and it doesn't appear that Atari does as well.

 

Developers will have the ability to lock out their future work. Good enough for me.

[spiffyone]

In other words, if it works in every other community, why not in the Jag community?

 

Examples?

 

The fact that such a device exists also does not somehow make people such as yourself somehow not want to push the Jaguar to its theoretical base limits--you'll either choose to do that or you won't. No matter how many people own a JagCF, it will never be 100% penetration - there will always be a reason and benefit to supporting ONLY the base hardware, whatever its true capabilities may or may not be.

 

I agree on this.

 

I'd still rather the product fit the philosophy of at least trying to be like something Atari themselves would've come out with in the mid '90s to upgrade Jag...but, hell, I know I'm in the minority on that one on this board.

 

Any new product for the Jaguar at this point should be a welcome one and yes, surely someone will abuse the privileges, but there will also be more who don't.

 

But...if the product has some assurances to at least lessen the hit due to piracy then the abuses will be far lower and the number who don't abuse will be higher because abuse will be all the more minimal.

 

There have been developers who blame piracy for pulling out, like Marc Goodman after the legendary Bilestoad on the Apple II back in the early 80s, but then there are others like Richard Garriott, who no doubt had his works pirated ad infinitum, who still received enough sales (and desire to continue developing) to pony up $30 million of his own dough to pay to go into space. I'd say things ultimately worked out for him. He found a way despite what was out there to "hurt" him.

 

Yes. Because Origin never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever put in some sort of copy protection on their games.

[Gorf]

See, that part in bold is what scares off some.

 

Ah! Sanity!

 

Because that "try before you buy" stuff, is, in all honesty, complete bullcrap

 

Amen!

 

This whole "hey here's this pirated thing, try it and if you like it buy it" is nonsense. It really is. Most pirates simply keep their pirated goods, they don't go out and buy the real thing even if they enjoy the product. Why? Because they already have the friggin' product, particularly if it's an exact or near exact copy of the real product, so why go out and buy it? The motivation to buy isn't there. If it's a demo, yeah. Motivation to buy a full product is there. If it is full product, pirated, that is being tried....less so. Way less. Pretty sizable drop in motivation to buy.

 

And motivation to produce, thank you very much.

 

As for the idea that artists of any sort just want their work out there...that's a Marxist ideal, and Marx was a pinhead.

 

Wisdom is so hard to find, hang on to what you got Spiffy..its good....real good.

Socialism is the elimination of motivation, competition and accomplishment

which it clearly punishes.

 

I'm sure Gorf wouldn't mind if it was just demos, and there was an assurance that he'd be able to protect

his property...but that assurance isn't there.

 

Gorf gave out a free demo already. "Surrounded!"

 

 

I will state that if Gorf does want to continue releasing games in development on Jag despite JagCF not having an assurance (a strong assurance) that he'd be able to protect his work, then I'd suggest that he calculate what is needed to break even or pull in a nice tidy little profit (probably very little considering the fact that it's indy work on a "dead" hobbyist console), take the orders and don't ship anything out until the number of orders needed to break even or pull a bit of profit are purchased. Of course this would mean not billing anyone until the orders ship as well.

 

 

There are ways you can protect yourself in this regard, Gorf.

 

Again, calculate what you need to break even or turn profit and don't ship out until then. Billing is done once the damn things ship, and it would probably be wise to ship them all same day or nearly the same day. Or have a "once the first orders ship all orders cannot be cancelled" policy in place, so in case someone gets it early and leaks it you won't get cancelled orders from some who dl it.

 

 

Im sorry but Im not at all into the hassle. I have contract work with real game companies right now

and I 'll take my chances geting paid by them over this BS anyday. If we find a safe way to release

the games we will but as long I I keep eradin this bullshit like in this thread you can bet my motivation

will be extremely low.

[JagChris]

Again, personally as a purchaser of such "enabling" devices for other systems AND homebrew software - yes, even a genuine Jaguar Gorf CD - I still fail to see why the Jaguar, out of the countless computer and videogame systems that have such transfer devices peacefully and successfully co-exist with homebrew development and active original software acquisition, is somehow unique. In other words, if it works in every other community, why not in the Jag community? The fact that such a device exists also does not somehow make people such as yourself somehow not want to push the Jaguar to its theoretical base limits--you'll either choose to do that or you won't. No matter how many people own a JagCF, it will never be 100% penetration - there will always be a reason and benefit to supporting ONLY the base hardware, whatever its true capabilities may or may not be.

 

There have been developers who blame piracy for pulling out, like Marc Goodman after the legendary Bilestoad on the Apple II back in the early 80s, but then there are others like Richard Garriott, who no doubt had his works pirated ad infinitum, who still received enough sales (and desire to continue developing) to pony up $30 million of his own dough to pay to go into space. I'd say things ultimately worked out for him. He found a way despite what was out there to "hurt" him.

 

 

You're talking about communities FAR bigger than the Jaguar's.

 

Any new product for the Jaguar at this point should be a welcome one and yes, surely someone will abuse the privileges, but there will also be more who don't.

 

 

If more people were vocally supportive of developers rights and protecting them in this SMALL community perhaps they would let more of the potential negative slide. Instead they get what seems to be a lot of harassment for voicing any concerns about this. Even outright 'screw you's', we'll do what we want.'

 

They don't want to get rich, they just want respect. When you buy their hard work for the Jag it shows respect.

 

When you give silent consent to the pirates and the bullshitters and not have their backs, what's the developers motivation for sharing?

 

If they had more vocal and moral support when these things arise it would show them that indeed a majority of the community is there to respect and support their efforts and they would probably not get so worked up about what small piracy may happen from the release of such a device.

 

This is just a small community guys. We're lucky we have developers. Songbird, though I don't agree with a lot of the prices of the custom titles, without which we wouldn't have these titles AT ALL.

 

Don't agree with the prices so you're gonna steal them. What fuckin' balls to say that in the forum that developer/publisher/distributor frequents. What absolute disrespect. This attitude keeps up and we'll lose Carl too.

 

 

GVia66, be a man and get an f'n job and support the community you get enjoyment from.

 

Tyrant, be a man and get an f'n job and support the community you get enjoyment from.

 

 

Good god you guys.

[Gorf]

Guys - I've coded for a living, and I support 100% the rights of authors/corporations and their protection of IP but for f*cks sake gain some perspective.

 

 

Have you HAND coded the Jaguar tho? There is no C compiler or debugger woth shit and to

max the machines performance you need 100% assembler and it needs to be done out in

MAIN as well as local. That requires non exsistant tools and means it must be done by hand.

This means going in every label and making sure they are in the right spots and that each jump

is in the right spots and the right amount of nop's and then you acn move on. If you are a coder,

you have to understand this is not MSVC we are talking about. You also understand that the market

size here is an automatic loss. Why should we bother? really ? So everyone can steal our games?

Fat chance.

 

Surrounded to a lot longer than it needed to to develope becasue it runs in main. that took me

many weeks. I can do that enire game in a few hours in MSCV or something like that.

 

How's that for some perspective boss?

[spiffyone]

(Bill_Loguidice @ Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:21 AM)

Yeah, I have to agree with that too. I know of no other platform, including Atari platforms, that have put up such a fuss over the possibility - the user option side effect if you will - of playing ROMs on the system.

 

Dreamcast community.

 

Just FYI on that one.

 

It's a semi sore spot.

 

The indy community understands that cracking the system to play games off of CD-Rs was necessary to even have an indy scene (due to DC using proprietary GD-ROMs for games), but the whole burning commercially released games onto CD-R thing, which was in fact part of the reason Dreamcast was killed off by Sega (they needed every last red cent off of software sales they could muster, and piracy made that impossible) has always been frowned upon...even though it's part of the reason there's even a scene in the first place.

 

Go to a Dreamcast enthusiast forum and talk of burning a CDI of a homebrew demo, and you'll be fine. Go in and talk about burning a CDI of, say, Shenmue, and expect to get flamed to Valhalla.

[Gorf]

They're games that the original developers aren't making profits off anymore, I don't care if I download a rom for Combat or Atari Karts, and it doesn't appear that Atari does as well.

 

Developers will have the ability to lock out their future work. Good enough for me.

 

Call up Atari and tell them you download the IP's they own. I think you wont.

[Atariboy]

lol

 

You do realize that virtually everything Atari produced prior to 1995 is online at this site, a site that Atari is aware of and has used as a resource and has condoned the release of their titles as roms? The Jaguar is the only exception, and I imagine that is only to appease a small vocal minority.

 

I think this device will only benefit the community.

Edited September 29, 2007 by Atariboy

[Fadest]

Well....go ahead..start coding...and after months of hand coding RISC code to run in main

because there are no tools that understand it can be done, after spending 12+ years to really

know a machine, to wring the very best performance you can for the sole purpose of offering

games worthy of a 64 bit machine.

This post seems strange for me, because I would say you are the one, amongst other active developper, that is abale, using your technological knowledges to protect your work (detect that program is run from something else than your PCB).

 

Concerning making hard work, putting his heart into our work, and making money, I choosed another option for the 3rd point, so I am not sure to be the best person to discuss about that.

[Gorf]

lol

 

You do realize that virtually everything Atari produced prior to 1995 is online at this site, a site that Atari is aware of and has used as a resource and has condoned the release of their titles as roms? The Jaguar is the only exception, and I imagine that is only to appease a small vocal minority.

 

I think this device and hopefully future efforts to emulate this system will only benefit the community.

 

 

Fine...now go call Atari and tell them you are dl'ing their IP's.

[Gorf]

Well....go ahead..start coding...and after months of hand coding RISC code to run in main

because there are no tools that understand it can be done, after spending 12+ years to really

know a machine, to wring the very best performance you can for the sole purpose of offering

games worthy of a 64 bit machine.

This post seems strange for me, because I would say you are the one, amongst other active developper, that is abale, using your technological knowledges to protect your work (detect that program is run from something else than your PCB).

 

Concerning making hard work, putting his heart into our work, and making money, I choosed another option for the 3rd point, so I am not sure to be the best person to discuss about that.

 

 

At least you admit it.

[Atariboy]

Give me contact information for them, Atari condones it as this site is proof of.

[Gorf]

(Bill_Loguidice @ Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:21 AM)

Yeah, I have to agree with that too. I know of no other platform, including Atari platforms, that have put up such a fuss over the possibility - the user option side effect if you will - of playing ROMs on the system.

 

Dreamcast community.

 

Just FYI on that one.

 

It's a semi sore spot.

 

The indy community understands that cracking the system to play games off of CD-Rs was necessary to even have an indy scene (due to DC using proprietary GD-ROMs for games), but the whole burning commercially released games onto CD-R thing, which was in fact part of the reason Dreamcast was killed off by Sega (they needed every last red cent off of software sales they could muster, and piracy made that impossible) has always been frowned upon...even though it's part of the reason there's even a scene in the first place.

 

Go to a Dreamcast enthusiast forum and talk of burning a CDI of a homebrew demo, and you'll be fine. Go in and talk about burning a CDI of, say, Shenmue, and expect to get flamed to Valhalla.

 

 

We have Dream cast games in the works too. At least those are a ton easier to code for.

If the Jaguar was this simple, Jag would not be dead today....mmmmm...maybe.

 

Take this personally all you want. However, Im just protecting my investments.

If I call you clueless, it's not to call you names but to be clear to you that you do

not understand. It's not something I can explain in tweo paragraphs either. You'd

have to be there.

[JagChris]

I leave in a smol city, i never view jag games at resonable price (5-10€) always 50€... and by ebay or other internet site.

whe leaving with 700€ month : locaton, food, internet (no telephon)...

 

I like jaguar but the money have a price. Televisor at 4000€ is a idiossy or for people whe have a lot of money.

 

In USA lot of people leaving with credits on is house... Here whe leaving with a job ...

 

be caful

 

guillem

 

 

How in the hell you gonna be able to afford a $200 CF then?