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HELP! Information on Red Sea Crossing?


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#126 nagn2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:28 PM

I have seen a few people compare this to Birthday Mania. What exactly is the story behind that cartridge?

#127 PingvinBlueJeans OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:47 PM

I have seen a few people compare this to Birthday Mania. What exactly is the story behind that cartridge?

http://www.atariage....showtopic=78004

#128 Omegamatrix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:18 AM

The strongest arguement for "dumping" or "imaging" a games rom is to preserve it. Your copy may well be the last one in existence if all the others have all been thrown out. With such a small run this is really possible. This programmer has to get in touch with Al and work something out to sell some copy's in AA's store. It's win-win.

#129 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:37 AM

....it's way too early for some more "Atari Charles" April Fool's gags.

...and way to good. ;)

#130 Foxsolo2000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:19 AM

That reminds me. What is Krypton85 (I believe that was his ID) doing these days? ;)

#131 Rom Hunter OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:04 AM

This is exactly my thought on the issue. This is going way, way, way too fast.
So, picture this. The guy is at work, or whatever, and gets an anonymous call, and feels good that his work is found/appreciated-- that's gotta make your day. Now, it's potentially getting to stalkerish-proportions. Instead of thinking for a few days of questions, we've contacted him twice, and already sent an email. And, one question should have been "would you be willing to share this with the community some way", instead of using the term "dump a cart"-- someone not too 2600-involved might immediately hear this and think about piracy. You don't want to put this guy on the defensive, which is what I think could be happening. Immediately, tons of people thought "dump the cart" once they saw this thread. No, don't do that with a programmer. Appreciate them.

This isn't David Crane or Rob Fulop working for a company. This is probably an independent guy that did something for a small fun release, maybe even for families. I think we're comparing apples to oranges here. If he was only able to sell 100, and make peanuts on it, he may be disappointed. It might revive him to hear that people would pay $5 per cartridge for a re-release, and that they think he's pretty cool for what he did.

I take this from a very defensive point of view, because if you're not the type that does this sort of thing every day (talking to the programmer out of the blue), you could really push them away. I was close to a 7800 proto many years ago, and I think I just put too much pressure on the guy, and he lost interest. Now, I'm older and wiser, but we still don't have Electrocop.

Don't get too opinionated about the guy yet. Appreciate him, and keep a distance. He doesn't know the terminology that we do, or our intentions. All he knows is that his game was found, and intentions seem to indicate mass-distribution of something he worked on.

Be careful guys. Back off a bit, take a breather, and let's do this right.

-John

Well spoken, John.

Let's give this some rest.

Let the programmer answer the questions that are on the list only at his own pace and in his own time and let's not invade this man with all other sorts of questions about dumping, hacking, reproducing, buying or selling his game.

That cartridge isn't going to rot or walk away or devaluate, so let the first hype-wave get over it.

After that, I would advice Nagn2 to contact Albert (and Albert only) about any possible future plans of dumping the ROM and producing any repro's for the rest of the community.

Let Albert (and Albert only) then contact Steve about any plans of dumping the ROM, producing any repro's and let these two persons talk about shares, percentages and copyright issues.

IMO the best triangle to deal with this matter would be: Nagn2 - Albert - Steve

The original cartridge can eventually be sold to a well respected Atari 2600 collector (and in my opinion that doesn't always have to be the one with the most cash), but that's totally up to Nagn2.


Speaking as an archivist, I think the ROM should eventually be dumped and released to the public.

After all: the game was made to be played and not to be locked away in a crate forever.

But as far as I'm concerned this can wait until the time is ripe to do this properly.

8)

Edited by Rom Hunter, Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:42 AM.


#132 nagn2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:45 AM

Well, here are the answers from Steve everyone has been waiting for!

- What was your idea/inspiration behind this game?
>
> Reach a niche market that was small enough to advertise in
> at a reasonable price.
>
> - Did you program it for a certain (religious) reason?
>
> No.
>
> - Was it supposed to be a children's only game?
>
> No.
>
> - Is it a complete game? If so, does it have an ending?
>
> Yes, it has an ending. I'm not going to give that away.
>
> - Do you still know/have the instuctions?
>
> Possibly somewhere, but not handy. The game was designed
> to be easy enough no to need instructions.
>
> - Was the game was originally sold with a box and/or
> manual?
>
> No.
>
> - What equipment did you use for programming the game?
>
> Franklyn Ace computer, EPROM burner, ROM reader.
>
> - Do you still own the source code somewhere?
>
> Maybe, but it would take some serious hunting.
>
> - How did you know how to program the Atari 2600?
>
> Figured it out.
>
> - Did you sell the carts? If so, how much did one cart
> cost?
>
> I sold them. I don' recall how much they cost to make.
>
> - Who made them?
>
> I made the prototypes on EPROMs and then had a
> manufacturer make a batch.
>
> - Who was the distributor? (if any)
>
> Me.
>
> - What exactly does the number '321430' on the label mean?
> Was it just a model
> number or a reference to something else?
>
> Nothing special.
>
> - Where there any other 'Inspirational Video Concepts',
> besides an Atari 2600
> game?
>
> No.
>
> - Did you design your own label?
>
> Yes.
>
> - Did you program the game yourself? If so, did you also
> program the
> sounds/music/graphics yourself or was someone else
> responsible for that?
>
> I did it all.
>
> - Does it contain any secrets (or so called 'Easter
> Eggs')? If so, please
> don't tell what they are!
>
> Not telling!
>
> - Did you have any connections with then known software
> houses and/or
> programmers?
>
> None.
>
> - How long did it take to program the game?
>
> Possibly a few months...it was a long time ago.
>
> - Do you still own any work in progress or prototypes of
> this game or any
> other game concepts?
>
> Possibly, but not sure where.
>
> - What size is the cart? (dumping it would find this out)
>
> 4K is my best recollection.
>
> - What did you find the most difficult in programming the
> 2600?
>
> Limited resources to work with.
>
> - What do you remember liking/disliking about the 2600?
>
> It was a challenge and I enjoyed that.
>
> - Have you done any 6502 programming prior to this? If so,
> then what?
>
> None.
>
> - Are there any undocumented opcodes used in the game?
>
> I don't think so.
>
> - Are there any coding tricks he remembers having to do
> for this game?
>
> Don't recall, but surely there were.
>
> - Why did you develop this for the 2600? Market share at
> the time? Challenge
> of the machine?
>
> The 2600 was very popular at the time and a development
> system was cheap to put together.
>
> - Did you use an existing game as help (i.e. did you
> reverse engineer a game
> to help do this one)?
>
> I reverse engineered many games.
>
> - How did you make the cartridges?
>
> See above...used EPROMs for prototypes, then had ROMs
> burned.
>
> - Did you have any plans to send to a publisher (i.e.
> Activision, Atari,
> Imagic, etc.)?
>
> None.
>
> - Is there a title screen? If so, does it use the classic
> 6-digit display trick?
>
> I don't think so.

#133 RangerG OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:59 AM

Wow, talk about a limited release: no box, no manual, and a very homemade looking label. The great news to me is that it is a complete game.

#134 Rom Hunter OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:08 AM

Interesting.

So it's a loose, homebrewed 4K Atari 2600 game with an ending (and perhaps even an easter egg too).

Thanks for sharing, Nagn2.


Hmm,

He designed his own label, but the number on it doesn't mean anything special...


Well, one thing we know for sure now is that the value of this cart can't be boosted up by 'finding' a non-existing manual or box.

8)

Edited by Rom Hunter, Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:23 AM.


#135 sandmountainslim OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:16 AM

The strongest arguement for "dumping" or "imaging" a games rom is to preserve it. Your copy may well be the last one in existence if all the others have all been thrown out. With such a small run this is really possible. This programmer has to get in touch with Al and work something out to sell some copy's in AA's store. It's win-win.



Yes! Win for everybody involved including us onlookers ;) I would buy a copy of this in 1/324nds of a heartbeat.
WP

#136 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:19 AM

Looks like it was a production game after all. Guess I won't be adding it to the site... :(

Tempest

#137 PingvinBlueJeans OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:21 AM

Looks like it was a production game after all. Guess I won't be adding it to the site... :(

Tempest

Well, not until Steve Schustack finds the proto at least. ;)

#138 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:00 AM

Looks like it was a production game after all. Guess I won't be adding it to the site... :(

Why restricty yourself that way? IMO it fits perfectly to AtariProtos.com. ;)

#139 PressureCooker2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:10 AM

This is getting better every minute....

If there is any way for nagn2 to do it, can you get some footage of you playing it......for sound effects, gameplay, etc.?

#140 Zach OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:42 AM

Weird, I was just thinking about some of the Bible story games for the Nintendo, and wondering why there weren't any for the 2600. Turns out there was, but we didn't know! :-o

I would be very surprised if this were not in the AA store by the end of the year.

#141 Red 5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:55 AM

Not to down play this amazing find... which it totally is... but from the answers he gave to the questions, wouldn't
this be labelled a homebrew.

Albeit quite possible one of the first homebrews ever, I don't know if I would classify it as anything other than that.

If that's the case the debate on the worth of the game should be interesting.

(Go Fish! sells for $25.00) :ponder:

#142 sandmountainslim OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:57 AM

I would be very surprised if this were not in the AA store by the end of the year.


This game is a VERY interesting 30th Anniversary Surprise. Would be nice to see it in production once again.
I LIKE this thread, it is an adventure.
WP

#143 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:03 AM

Looks like it was a production game after all. Guess I won't be adding it to the site... :(

Why restricty yourself that way? IMO it fits perfectly to AtariProtos.com. ;)



But where do you draw the line? Video Life had a limited production run, should it be included with the prototypes? I've only seen two Out of Control's in my lifetime, does that count? A limited production game or a homebrew don't really count as prototypes. I'll admit that I have a few 'questionable' protos on my page (such as Confrontation) but I'd rather not add anymore. It's AtariProtos, not AtariRarities.

Tempest

#144 rolenta OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:13 AM

> How did you make the cartridges?


One question still remains unanswered. In 1983 there weren't any 'common' carts that were floating around that could be used. And I doubt if it was economical to find a place that would manufacture just 100 carts.

So where did the cartrdiges come from?

#145 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:14 AM

But where do you draw the line?

I'd draw the line where *I* want it to be. :)

I'll admit that I have a few 'questionable' protos on my page (such as Confrontation) but I'd rather not add anymore.

And missing the first homebrew(?) ever? Maybe make a special category, for not so prototype-like games.

#146 sandmountainslim OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:16 AM

> How did you make the cartridges?


One question still remains unanswered. In 1983 there weren't any 'common' carts that were floating around that could be used. And I doubt if it was economical to find a place that would manufacture just 100 carts.

So where did the cartrdiges come from?



Probably Combat carts. Even in 83 they were considered common and of little value.
WP

#147 rolenta OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:18 AM

Probably Combat carts. Even in 83 they were considered common and of little value.


The cartridge in the picture is not an Atari cart

#148 PingvinBlueJeans OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:19 AM

Probably Combat carts. Even in 83 they were considered common and of little value.
WP

It doesn't appear to be an Atari cartridge shell...looks more like Telesys or Apollo. It appears that he was based in San Diego, so using Telesys shells (like the L.A.-based Wizard Video did) is definitely a possibility.

Edited by PingvinBlueJeans, Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:21 AM.


#149 homerwannabee OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:28 PM

Ok, this goes to the original poster. You should know that Wonder007 has offered $6,500 for Birthday Mania. I would not be surprised if he would offer a similar amount for this game. I just want you to have a heads up on what has been offered for a game of similar rarity. :)

#150 PingvinBlueJeans OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:33 PM

Ok, this goes to the original poster. You should know that Wonder007 has offered $6,500 for Birthday Mania. I would not be surprised if he would offer a similar amount for this game. I just want you to have a heads up on what has been offered for a game of similar rarity. :)

No question the cart is valuable...but I think we'd better wait to see if Steve Schustack has any more original copies of this game (either protos or production copies) before we start tossing around numbers like that. ;)




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