NES vs 7800

[SoundGammon]

I've heard alot of talk about what system is better.

So I got to wondering, how would ASTEROIDS & ROBOTRON look on the NES?

Would there be alot of flicker? Any thoughts?

[Gregory DG]

There'd be a MASSIVE amount of flicker! Shoot, the NES flickers when there's just two objects on the screen!

[shadow460]

In before the lock.

[rockman_x_2002]

For Robotron, I would imagine tons of flicker and slowdown. For Asteroids, maybe not quite so much except when there are tons of rocks flying around the screen. Still, if I had to pick I'd say Asteroids is the most likely candidate for being doable on the NES.

[DracIsBack]

I've heard alot of talk about what system is better.

So I got to wondering, how would ASTEROIDS & ROBOTRON look on the NES?

Would there be alot of flicker? Any thoughts?

 

 

We've kind of beat this to death in this forum. Each system has their advantages technically, but at the end of the day, Nintendo delivered strong games, a strong campaign and strong followthrough. Atari didn't.

 

In terms of games like Robotron, you're talking about a game that plays into the 7800's strengths (moving around many objects) and one that was done by the designers of the system.

[phonedork]

I dont know about the NES not being able to move alot of sprites moving. From what I remember... Ikari Warriors looks much better on the NES. I say this because Ikari Warriors is a pretty busy game. Robotron has alot of enemies to, but it is a plain black back ground. I wonder how many of these VS forums get started and locked. LOL!

 

 

Sega Master System > NES

NES > Atari 7800

Atari 7800 > Atari 5200

Intellivision > Atari 2600

Atari 2600 > Odyssey

Odyssey > Jaguar!

 

LOL!

[supercat]

Robotron has alot of enemies to, but it is a plain black back ground.

 

The NES hardware is optimized for displaying tiled backgrounds. Games that require tiled backgrounds will work better on the NES than on the 7800. Games which do not require tiled backgrounds, however, will often work better on the 7800.

[carmel_andrews]

Nes v 7800...not a fair comparison....why, simply because the 7800 was one of the warners/tramiel 'transitional' products and suffered due to tramiel wanting to focus on computers (namely the ST) and not so much on the 8bit games systems and because very little 7800 specific software was launched for the 7800 (compared to the 5200 for instance) and that warners didn't properly launch or push it when they had the chance....As you can only realy judge a system based on the support it got from third party publishers

[DracIsBack]

I dont know about the NES not being able to move alot of sprites moving.

 

There are certainly some NES games that do move a fair number of objects compared to others. As a rule, though, the 7800 tends to have an easier time of it as that is what the hardware is designed to do.

 

From what I remember... Ikari Warriors looks much better on the NES.

 

I'll have to dig out my NES Ikari Warriors tonight and re-review. I remember it being a little better looking in spots, but not a huge difference. Definitely not a sharp contrast like Double Dragon (NES) or Xenophopbe (7800).

 

Robotron has alot of enemies to, but it is a plain black back ground.

 

Robotron is actually pretty impressive in the amount of enemies it chucks around at once - literally 70 or 80 iirc.

 

Other 7800 games do move significant objects with backgrounds ... Desert Falcon comes to mind on the higher levels.

 

I wonder how many of these VS forums get started and locked. LOL!

 

LOL - depends on the nettiquette shown by the posters. "IMO" goes a long, long way.

[SoundGammon]

Nes v 7800...not a fair comparison....why, simply because the 7800 was one of the warners/tramiel 'transitional' products and suffered due to tramiel wanting to focus on computers (namely the ST) and not so much on the 8bit games systems and because very little 7800 specific software was launched for the 7800 (compared to the 5200 for instance) and that warners didn't properly launch or push it when they had the chance....As you can only realy judge a system based on the support it got from third party publishers

 

The 7800 was ready, in the warehouse, for 1984 summer release. Atari had everything ready to go when Warner sold the company to the Tramiels, who only bought Atari for the name and didn't want anything to do with video games. Ironically, video games were the LAST thing they did when they closed shop.

[kroogur]

My thought? the NES could handle it no sweat yeah maybe a little flicker on Robotron but the defining thing would be the controls a joystick goes a long way to control those games well ,yeah the NES Advantage would go a long way but i think the gameplay itself would be smoother on the 7800.

when i play an Atari system the movement "translation" from controller to screen seems more fluid where on the NES it seems stiffer for example the NES control feels like an etch a stetch there ie a horizontal control and vertical and through careful control you can go diagnonal and make curves where the Atari just seems to track smoothly in whatever direction the stick is pushed.

[Gorf]

Nes v 7800...not a fair comparison....why, simply because the 7800 was one of the warners/tramiel 'transitional' products and suffered due to tramiel wanting to focus on computers (namely the ST) and not so much on the 8bit games systems and because very little 7800 specific software was launched for the 7800 (compared to the 5200 for instance) and that warners didn't properly launch or push it when they had the chance....As you can only realy judge a system based on the support it got from third party publishers

 

The 7800 was ready, in the warehouse, for 1984 summer release. Atari had everything ready to go when Warner sold the company to the Tramiels, who only bought Atari for the name and didn't want anything to do with video games. Ironically, video games were the LAST thing they did when they closed shop.

 

 

Well......hardly a noble attempt when you look back at the level of stupidity they displayed.

[DracIsBack]

I dug out my NES Ikari Warriors tonight from my storage pile. I'm not sure you want to be calling it proof of the NES's capabilities at moving around objects ... four guys on the screen and it flickers. I've seen much better from than on the NES and the 7800, with and without backgrounds.

 

Also - I must be used to the 7800 version, but I find the NES control scheme isn't as tight as it is in other NES games. It feels like you're steering with soap, IMO.

[Lord Thag]

The 7800 handles single screen arcade games with lots of sprites better, which is what it was designed for. The NES does just about everything else better than the 7800, and was designed to be a step up from the MSX systems, if memory served, which is where we get games like Castlevania and Metal Gear from. Nintendo had way morwe money, and an exponentially better marketing strategy. That said, the specs never really matter. Hell, the 2600 kicked the Intellivision and Colecovision's butts in sales when it was five years old, and either of those systems was twice as good technically. It always comes down to the games, which the NES had in spades, and the 7800 did not. Could it have competed? Sure. Did it? Not even close.

 

That said, I play my 7800 a LOT more than my NES. Platformers and crappy RPGs are lame. Joust and Robotron still rule

[DracIsBack]

Just for the folks who may not be familiar with the lengthy 7800 vs. NES comparisons of the past, here's a quick rundown of the differences.

 

Graphics:

 

Overall:

- NES is a fixed form system that excels at making title based games. It is more efficient than the 7800 at creating games that rely on this approach. It has more trouble with games that require display list type changes.

 

- The 7800 builds its display line-by-line. The pluses are that the display is more flexible for non-tile based games (ie. flight simulators, Rescue On Fractalus, Space Harrier, Ball Blazer etc) than the NES. It can also move many more objects at one time without flicker or

slowdown.

 

Note: Some have assumed The 7800 can't play tile based games with backgrounds. It can (see "Scrapyard Dog), but it's significantly more work to achieve a similar result to an NES game. Ditto for the NES on non-tile based games.

 

Resolution:

 

On paper, the 7800 has higher resolution of 320 pixels wide displays. In practice, the NES has higher resolution because almost all 7800 games utilize the lower 160 pixel wide display. The 320 modes have some limitations and are draining on the CPU when supporting the 7800's flexible display methods.

 

One could make the claim that the highest resolution 7800 games (ie. homebrews that use the 320 mode) have higher resolution than the highest 7800 games, but it doesn't average out that way overall.

 

Note: Neither system is exactly "super VGA" here. :-)

 

Colors:

 

- The 7800 has more of them, the NES has brighter colors. 7800 games can appear more washed out, based upon how the colors are generated. The NES would have more trouble with images that require multiple shades of a particular color (see the Lucasfilm logo in Ballblazer as an example).

 

Processing Power:

- I always find the statement of X being more powerful than Y to be funny. Both the NES and 7800 have 8-bit 6502 processors. Some have made the claim of the NES having an additional "processor' in the PPU, but it's not really correct. The one difference is that the NES PPU has its own access to the bus when building graphics whereas the MARIA halts the CPU when building graphics.

 

Memory:

- They also have the same amount of memory, though the NES makes more efficient use of it with the fixed architecture.

 

NOTE: One misconception that has always bugged me is the belief that the 7800 was incapable of having larger storage space in its cartridges. This is Jack Tramiel cheapness and nothing more. Nothing prevents the 7800 from playing 1 megabit, 2 megabit, 3 megabit and 4 megabit games except Jack signing the check to develop and manufacture games that use that space.

 

Sound:

- NES has five channel sound, 7800 has 2 channel sound. No contest here unless the 7800 cart has a POKEY (4 channel sound) and uses TIA (2 channel sound) and POKEY together. Only two games have POKEY (Ballblazer and Commando) and only one uses the two sound chips for in-game sound (Commando - music by POKEY, sound effects by TIA).

[Tony Montana]

SNIP

 

Very informative, thankyou

[carmel_andrews]

Because the 78xx uses a similar version of 'Display lists/DLI's' like the A8, does that mean that the 7800 can use the same programming tricks like on the A8,....I.E. APAC modes, CIN,HIP or Gtia Bug etc...as i am guessing that the maria device is like a modd'd combo equiv. of the A8's antic/gtia deal....that would be cool....Just imaging something like the numen demo running on the 78xx

[DanBoris]

Just for the folks who may not be familiar with the lengthy 7800 vs. NES comparisons of the past, here's a quick rundown of the differences.

 

Processing Power:

- I always find the statement of X being more powerful than Y to be funny. Both the NES and 7800 have 8-bit 6502 processors. Some have made the claim of the NES having an additional "processor' in the PPU, but it's not really correct. The one difference is that the NES PPU has its own access to the bus when building graphics whereas the MARIA halts the CPU when building graphics.

 

Arguably you could say that the 7800's CPU is more powerful since the version of the 6502 the NES uses does not have the BCD math mode, where there 7800's does, but in most cases this wouldn't have a significant effect on performance.

 

Dan

[frogstar_robot]

Because the 78xx uses a similar version of 'Display lists/DLI's' like the A8, does that mean that the 7800 can use the same programming tricks like on the A8,....I.E. APAC modes, CIN,HIP or Gtia Bug etc...as i am guessing that the maria device is like a modd'd combo equiv. of the A8's antic/gtia deal....that would be cool....Just imaging something like the numen demo running on the 78xx

 

No. The 7800 doesn't have a GTIA chip. It may be possible to pull some analogous tricks but they tend to be processor intensive on the A8. Overall, it doesn't appear to be quite as plastic as the A8's hardware although it does have a more powerful sprite system.

[phonedork]

I dug out my NES Ikari Warriors tonight from my storage pile. I'm not sure you want to be calling it proof of the NES's capabilities at moving around objects ... four guys on the screen and it flickers. I've seen much better from than on the NES and the 7800, with and without backgrounds.

 

Also - I must be used to the 7800 version, but I find the NES control scheme isn't as tight as it is in other NES games. It feels like you're steering with soap, IMO.

 

 

Well Ikari warriors is a lousy game on both the NES and the 7800 to me. Control wise I will say the 7800 has this, because you can hold the fire button to keep shooting in the direction you want. The NES version shoots only where you are moving to. Which sucks when somebody is behind you and you want to shoot him while walking away. But the NES looks better. It does flicker a quite a bit on the NES, but it has more animation then the 7800. The characters look more terrible on the 7800. Not saying either one looks extremely good. Explosions are better on the NES. The animation is choppy on both systems, but slightly better on the NES. Sometimes there are Helicopters, Tanks, couple of men, and explosions all on one screen. This is what I mean by it being busy. The game is not always that busy, but there are times when it does.

[phuzaxeman]

I dug out my NES Ikari Warriors tonight from my storage pile. I'm not sure you want to be calling it proof of the NES's capabilities at moving around objects ... four guys on the screen and it flickers. I've seen much better from than on the NES and the 7800, with and without backgrounds.

 

Also - I must be used to the 7800 version, but I find the NES control scheme isn't as tight as it is in other NES games. It feels like you're steering with soap, IMO.

 

 

Well Ikari warriors is a lousy game on both the NES and the 7800 to me. Control wise I will say the 7800 has this, because you can hold the fire button to keep shooting in the direction you want. The NES version shoots only where you are moving to. Which sucks when somebody is behind you and you want to shoot him while walking away. But the NES looks better. It does flicker a quite a bit on the NES, but it has more animation then the 7800. The characters look more terrible on the 7800. Not saying either one looks extremely good. Explosions are better on the NES. The animation is choppy on both systems, but slightly better on the NES. Sometimes there are Helicopters, Tanks, couple of men, and explosions all on one screen. This is what I mean by it being busy. The game is not always that busy, but there are times when it does.

 

yeah my pile of $hit is better than your pile of $hit. galaga on both systems are pretty darn good with nes edging the 7800.

[Atarifever]

Well Ikari warriors is a lousy game on both the NES and the 7800 to me.

You sir, are a crazy person.

[phonedork]

Well Ikari warriors is a lousy game on both the NES and the 7800 to me.

You sir, are a crazy person.

 

 

I am not saying I hate Ikari Warriors! Just on those systems. I love the arcade with the spinner joysticks. Ikari and Victory Road are 2 of my all time favorite games. Just very dissapointing on the home systems. Neither the 7800 or the NES give me that arcade feeling. I know its the arcade, but the homeversion should try to simulate that feeling or game play you get at the arcade and neither system does this.

[Atarifever]

Well Ikari warriors is a lousy game on both the NES and the 7800 to me.

You sir, are a crazy person.

 

 

I am not saying I hate Ikari Warriors! Just on those systems. I love the arcade with the spinner joysticks. Ikari and Victory Road are 2 of my all time favorite games. Just very dissapointing on the home systems. Neither the 7800 or the NES give me that arcade feeling. I know its the arcade, but the homeversion should try to simulate that feeling or game play you get at the arcade and neither system does this.

Ah, I see. I don't share your opinion, but I no longer question your sanity.

[+wood_jl]

I dug out my NES Ikari Warriors tonight from my storage pile. I'm not sure you want to be calling it proof of the NES's capabilities at moving around objects ... four guys on the screen and it flickers. I've seen much better from than on the NES and the 7800, with and without backgrounds.

 

Also - I must be used to the 7800 version, but I find the NES control scheme isn't as tight as it is in other NES games. It feels like you're steering with soap, IMO.

 

 

Well Ikari warriors is a lousy game on both the NES and the 7800 to me. Control wise I will say the 7800 has this, because you can hold the fire button to keep shooting in the direction you want. The NES version shoots only where you are moving to. Which sucks when somebody is behind you and you want to shoot him while walking away. But the NES looks better. It does flicker a quite a bit on the NES, but it has more animation then the 7800. The characters look more terrible on the 7800. Not saying either one looks extremely good. Explosions are better on the NES. The animation is choppy on both systems, but slightly better on the NES. Sometimes there are Helicopters, Tanks, couple of men, and explosions all on one screen. This is what I mean by it being busy. The game is not always that busy, but there are times when it does.

 

yeah my pile of $hit is better than your pile of $hit. galaga on both systems are pretty darn good with nes edging the 7800.

 

 

Galaga is NOT EVEN CLOSE on these two systems.

 

While I love every version of Galaga, the 7800 version sucks in comparison to the NES version.

 

The NES version looks and plays like "real" Galaga and is surprisingly close to the arcade.

7800 version is not even close.