Mark Wolfe Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 (edited) Greetings fellow atariagers, Tonight I picked up my first Atari ST from a local seller on Craig's List. Turns out it's a 1040 STF and seems to have an internal hard drive I don't know much about the Atari ST. There is no manual included, my questions are as follows: 1. how do I tell how large the HD is? or is it even an hd? it has a desktop and access to floppy A & B and a trash can. 2. how do I tell how much ram is installed 3. how do I upgrade hd and ram? 4. what does the "F" stand for and does it change the value of this unit? [i paid $100 even for the cpu and an atari sc1224 monitor] 5. how can I make the damn screen blow up to the full size of the monitor, it's ridiculously small on an already small monitor. when I change resolution from low to medium, it just gets all squished. high resolution is grayed out. 6. to my surprise, this reads PC formatted floppies. can I use them to transfer games on to the hd? 7. why do the st formatted floppies show up as blank pc formatted floppies on my mac? 8. can I use a normal monitor on this thing, either vga or a commodore style monitor, is there a special cable or hacked cable out there? 9. have I asked enough questions? edit: one more: 10. how can I manipulate atari st disk images on a mac so that I can extract the files and copy them to a blank floppy in OSX? Edited June 17, 2008 by Mark_Wolfe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Mark, The 1040STF typically would not have an internal hard drive. The ST always displays drive A and B. If you don't have an external drive B, it basically is just drive A duplicated. The 1040STF came with 1 MB of ram. The F basically means your ST does not have a RF modulator. Basically you cannot hook it up to the TV. To make the screen bigger you need mess around with the internals in your monitor. I would not recommend it. You can read PC disks, but the version on TOS in the 1040STF is not fully MSDOS compatible. You can get an upgraded TOS that will add that functionality. The reason your Mac cannot fully read the ST disk is because of the above. You need to upgrade TOS to be fully MSDOS compatible. I think its TOS 1.2 you'll need. There are some VGA monitors you can use, but I think its just for ST-HIGH (Black and White) There are sadly not many ST Utilities for the Mac. There are a few OS 9 tools, but most are quite dated. Whenever I need to manipulate ST images I take the disks to the office and use a PC. I am an avid Mac fellow as well, but there as just not many options. BTW, I see you are from Philly. I'm from scenic Bucks County! Fletch Greetings fellow atariagers, Tonight I picked up my first Atari ST from a local seller on Craig's List. Turns out it's a 1040 STF and seems to have an internal hard drive I don't know much about the Atari ST. There is no manual included, my questions are as follows: 1. how do I tell how large the HD is? or is it even an hd? it has a desktop and access to floppy A & B and a trash can. 2. how do I tell how much ram is installed 3. how do I upgrade hd and ram? 4. what does the "F" stand for and does it change the value of this unit? [i paid $100 even for the cpu and an atari sc1224 monitor] 5. how can I make the damn screen blow up to the full size of the monitor, it's ridiculously small on an already small monitor. when I change resolution from low to medium, it just gets all squished. high resolution is grayed out. 6. to my surprise, this reads PC formatted floppies. can I use them to transfer games on to the hd? 7. why do the st formatted floppies show up as blank pc formatted floppies on my mac? 8. can I use a normal monitor on this thing, either vga or a commodore style monitor, is there a special cable or hacked cable out there? 9. have I asked enough questions? edit: one more: 10. how can I manipulate atari st disk images on a mac so that I can extract the files and copy them to a blank floppy in OSX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 Hey neighbor Fletch! thank you. Great info, I was just doing a lot of googling and found some of the answers already I guess it was the nifty desktop that came up that made me think it had an HD, I figured out pretty quick that it didn't I was able to read and write data to a pc formatted floppy and run programs on the st with no trouble. What I wound up doing was running gemexplorer on virtual pc to mount disk images and extract the contents to the pc formatted floppy. it's slow going but it gets the job done... playing Nick Dangerous as I type this My only remaining questions have to do with the monitor output, RAM & TOS. 1. How can I tell what I have already installed and how can I upgrade? I don't see any readout that says avail memory or tos version, unless I'm looking in the wrong place. 2. Is there an online walkthrough for how to take the thing apart and what to look for? 3. are there any programs that run on the st that will tell me what it is loaded with and run hardware tests? 4. is there an adaptor to go to vga? the monitor out is RGB so there MUST be some sort of interface out there i can buy or build... surely there must be. I guess a pinout guide for a/v would suffice good to see a neighbor on AA... scenic bucks county is not far from scenic chester county cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) is this recommended and is it a reasonable price? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=003 if so, where can I find instructions for how to take the st apart ? edit: hehe, two more questions for anyone who knows Is there any way to add a high density floppy drive to an st? Can I add a zip drive to an ST? how does the hard disk interface work, my understanding is that its SCSI, can I just tie on a regular 40MB SCSI drive? edit2: it sure would be nice to find an updated, link-working version of this atari st faq: http://membres.lycos.fr/romuald/atari/quickfaq/stfaq_3.htm Edited June 18, 2008 by Mark_Wolfe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrax Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 2. how do I tell how much ram is installed When i got my first ST (and first atari for that matter) a while back, i found the program 'sysinfo' to be useful in telling me some hardware specs. Turns out I had 2 MB instead of 1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 great tip, thanks! I found it right away here http://www.retrosite.de/emulator/atarist/ataristbench.html I ran it and found out I have a stock stf, no cool surprises like you. at least the thing works perfectly, no malfunctions. I was able to get the squishyness of the higher resolution worked out with the adjustments on the back of the monitor, man what a pain, they're recessed. last question for now: why the F$#@ is Rick Dangerous so F%$#@ing hard!?? jeeez. talk about sensitive collision detection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puppetmark Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) Here are the instructions for building a VGA cable for your ST BUT the adapter only works with the ST in High Res mode which is B&W. I have build a couple of these and they work great. st_vga.zip Also, here is a link to a bunch of Hardware upgrades for the ST including upgrading to a HD Floppy. http://atari4ever.free.fr/ There are the three issues you will have to deal with if you decide to put a HD floppy in your ST: 1. You will have to upgrade your TOS or use a special driver as the Stock 1040 TOS will not know what to do. 2. You will have to install a small circuit or a toggle switch so the ST knows what kind of disk (DD HD) you are using. 3. You may have to switch out the WD1772 with an AJAX chip because some early WD1772s can't take doubling its frequency which is necessary for HD floppy drives. My suggestion is to get a Sony Floppy MPF-520 or MPF-920. They are easily modified for ST use. *EDIT* I forgot; I found this guide very helpful when I got my ST. Its for TOS 2.06 but it helped me understand TOS and get me going: http://jens-inge.dyndns.org/html/guide206/index.htm Edited June 18, 2008 by puppetmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 puppetmark to the rescue again! thanks so much bud Looks like I have some projects on my horizon - oh, any idea if that Rainbow TOS deal is a good one, and are they what I need [link in post above]? I have no idea what those chips are worth or where else to buy them besides ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Mark, The eBay seller is the owner of B&C in California so I assume he is charging about the same as he would at www.myatari.com. You may want to check. They are the ones you need. Open up the STF to see if you have a six chip or two chip TOS though. I believe my 1040STF is a six chip, but your mileage may vary. Fletch puppetmark to the rescue again! thanks so much bud Looks like I have some projects on my horizon - oh, any idea if that Rainbow TOS deal is a good one, and are they what I need [link in post above]? I have no idea what those chips are worth or where else to buy them besides ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puppetmark Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 oh, any idea if that Rainbow TOS deal is a good one, and are they what I need [link in post above]? I have no idea what those chips are worth or where else to buy them besides ebay If you open up your ST you should have TOS on six chips. There are a few with two chips but the vast majority of 1040STs have 6 chips. Rainbow TOS (TOS 1.4) is the best 6 chip TOS and it will solve the MSDOS compatibility problem. If you want to install a HD Floppy, you will still need a driver or TOS 2.06 which is a two chip only TOS. You can install TOS 2.06 in your ST but it requires some extra logic to map the TOS in memory correctly. B&C are good to deal with. I have done business with them several times and there prices are fair. Best Electronics also sells them but i am not sure of the price: http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/ Taking apart the 1040ST is pretty straight forward. Take all the screws out the bottom, turn it right side up and remove the top case. Then unplug and remove the KB. Unplug and unscrew power supply. Unplug and remove the floppy. The floppy is held in place by 3 long screws accessable from the bottom. Then you can bend the little metal tabs on the shielding and remove the top metal shield. I think that 's it. At this point you can uncrew and remove the main board if you need too. Be carefull with the board, it is big and it flexes easily. These are not the highest quality boards and you can crack traces if you let it flex too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 Thanks Mark, I bookmarked them. I looked pretty hard but did not see any TOS upgrade kits, I'll look around later. Gotta take apart the ST and see what I have, it would be just my luck that it has 2 chips if I were to just go ahead and order the 6 chip set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christos Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Taking the screws of an ST and most importantly puting them back is never an easy task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 Taking the screws of an ST and most importantly puting them back is never an easy task. thanks for the heads up, I will be mindful. I'm sure it can't be as bad as the old Mac Plus/SE cases, which required a proprietary screwdriver thingy. it was really long, like a bent wire hanger... what a pain that was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji-Man Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Mark, The Rainbow TOS chips may have more pins than the TOS chip that are currently in the ST. You will probably need to find a adapter PCB for the newer chips. If you do a google search on 'TEC Codehead Atari'. Codeheads used to have a board that you could solder in to accept the newer ROMs. These are rare as hen's teeth. I had one in my ST back in early 90's. There are other alternatives. There is also a mod site http://atari4ever.free.fr/ that will show you how to hack a new ROM set as well as other neat hacks. FWIW, I've not used any of them to verify if they work. Some of them look tempting I would suggest looking at the RAM upgrades. Anything over 2 megabytes will be a good investment. Checking in with the folk at www.atari-forum.com for any upgrades and hints is advised. Make sure you search the extensive forum before posting a question. They are quite helpful. Hope this helps, FujiMan Elburn, IL USA puppetmark to the rescue again! thanks so much bud Looks like I have some projects on my horizon - oh, any idea if that Rainbow TOS deal is a good one, and are they what I need [link in post above]? I have no idea what those chips are worth or where else to buy them besides ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Mark, The Rainbow TOS chips may have more pins than the TOS chip that are currently in the ST. You will probably need to find a adapter PCB for the newer chips. If you do a google search on 'TEC Codehead Atari'. Codeheads used to have a board that you could solder in to accept the newer ROMs. These are rare as hen's teeth. I had one in my ST back in early 90's. There are other alternatives. There is also a mod site http://atari4ever.free.fr/ that will show you how to hack a new ROM set as well as other neat hacks. FWIW, I've not used any of them to verify if they work. Some of them look tempting I would suggest looking at the RAM upgrades. Anything over 2 megabytes will be a good investment. Checking in with the folk at www.atari-forum.com for any upgrades and hints is advised. Make sure you search the extensive forum before posting a question. They are quite helpful. Hope this helps, FujiMan Elburn, IL USA puppetmark to the rescue again! thanks so much bud Looks like I have some projects on my horizon - oh, any idea if that Rainbow TOS deal is a good one, and are they what I need [link in post above]? I have no idea what those chips are worth or where else to buy them besides ebay thanks this is the first I've hard of needing an adaptor hmmm, better count the pins eh? I'm definitely getting ram, gonna max it out. that's already on the list, a hard drive too. thanks again -MW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puppetmark Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) this is the first I've hard of needing an adaptor hmmm, better count the pins eh? Rainbow TOS comes in either 2 chips or 6 chips. You just have to get the right set for your ST. You should not need an adapter. The newer 2 chip TOS ROMS do have more pins but thats because they hold more data. If you want to max out the ST RAM, look at this page. There is a 72 pin SIMM upgrade with instructions and pics. Its a LOT of soldering but well worth it: http://www.logicsays.com/atari/ Edited June 19, 2008 by puppetmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 this is the first I've hard of needing an adaptor hmmm, better count the pins eh? Rainbow TOS comes in either 2 chips or 6 chips. You just have to get the right set for your ST. You should not need an adapter. The newer 2 chip TOS ROMS do have more pins but thats because they hold more data. If you want to max out the ST RAM, look at this page. There is a 72 pin SIMM upgrade with instructions and pics. Its a LOT of soldering but well worth it: http://www.logicsays.com/atari/ oh man, there is no way I can handle that sort of solder job what is the max on normal ram, 2MB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) I think it was 4 or 4.5 Nice upgrade, problem is that the Fast Page RAMs were pretty short-lived and would be pretty hard to come by (and visually are virtually identical to EDOs). Edited June 19, 2008 by Rybags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanallan Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I found some on eScrew-- I mean ebay Fast Page Ram Hard to know if they're suitable, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 You could just as easily use 4 meg 30 pin SIMMs but they're also kinda rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 You could just as easily use 4 meg 30 pin SIMMs but they're also kinda rare. I think I may have some, or know where to find them are they the same as were used in Macs at the time? if so, I've got it covered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanallan Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I have a bunch of 30-pinners, but no idea what size they are. Most likely not 4mb but 1mb, useful if you want to have bank of them. Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 I have a bunch of 30-pinners, but no idea what size they are. Most likely not 4mb but 1mb, useful if you want to have bank of them. Nathan kewl thanks gotta pop the thing open and have a look inside before I do anything I'm going to try to do that next week. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikecoombs Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Hi! I used to use a 1040 for music sequencing back in the '80's. Unfortunately I haven't got any of the software anymore, but I have just come across a manual for it which you're welcome to have. I'll happily post it to you if you feel it would be helpful.I live in the UK. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share Posted August 2, 2008 Greetings Mike, welcome aboard! I was able to find a complete set of Cubase 3 software and manuals so I'm good on that. Right now I'm spending all my time with my Commodore 64 and a newly acquired MMC Replay cart http://www.vesalia.de/e_mmcreplay.htm I'll get back to my Atari tinkering soon, I actually have a bunch of stuff I'm going to post for trades at the end of the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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