Fox-1 / mnx Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 The original R-Time 8 cartridge is using the M3002-16PI as it's RTC. This component is obsolete and there is no replacement for this one. After reading some topics at AtariAge I'm sure that there are people over here who can emulate the M3002 with a modern programmable micro controller (probaby with their eyes closed and one hand tied to a foot). I have no experience with these micro controllers nor do I have the software/hardware to play with them so I'm looking for someone who can do this for me. I don't need a physical cartridge. I just need a tiny board (2 or 3 actually) which I can piggy back to an I.C. on the Black Box (such a board will likely also fit into a 130XE/800XL). Maybe a real PCB isn't even required as the original RT8 basically exists of only 2 logic components and a 32.768KHz crystal so it may fit on a wired experiment PCB. Another thing is that the M3002 has 256bytes of internal memory (for alarm settings) which is not being used in the RT8. Would it be possible to make use of this memory on the Atari 8-bit without loosing 100% compatibility? Or even extend this memory? I have no idea what to store in that area yet but I'm sure I'll come up with something in the near future :-) It's important that the hardware seen by the Atari is 100% identical with the RT8 as this is (was) more or less a standard. This way any time/date tool can be used without patching and without additional drivers (especially handy for disk based Sparta-Dos). Also, exchanging the battery for a rechargeable modern Lithium equivalent would be welcome. If anyone is interested to invest some time in it, I also have a data sheet of the M3002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Hello Robert, guys @Robert: Welcome back, we missed you I can't help you when it comes to developing this thing. But I can help get these things off your hands. Meaning: I want one too, and if the price is low enough, maybe even more. greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I can't help you when it comes to developing this thing. But I can help get these things off your hands. Meaning: I want one too, and if the price is low enough, maybe even more. I'll second that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 He Mathy, @Robert: Welcome back, we missed you Back from where? I never left. Just went away for the public for a while as I was too busy with other things :-) It wasn't my intention to let someone make a batch of R-Time replacements for me to re-sell. I just want to build a working replacement for the RT-8 for my own use and since the modern world (I don't think I'm part of it) has discovered the ATMEL I thought this was the way to go. Many people can mock up a small PCB once they have a working/programmed micro controller so if someone managed to make such a thing he's of course free to make it his project and create nice populated PCB's which he can sell if he wants to (releasing the micro controller code to the public would be nice). I'm just in doubt if there are enough people who actually want one. The "classic-game-SIO2PC-loading-types" have no use for it, emulator users don't need it, non-Sparta-Dos users don't really need it either, so who's left? It's even possible to extend the RT-8 with extra features. Much easier with programmable components then it is with only hardware. It depends on the knowledge and the time for the one who starts playing with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+David_P Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Provided a Z: handler with the same functions can be written, is it really worth getting worked up about 100% R-Time compatibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 Provided a Z: handler with the same functions can be written, is it really worth getting worked up about 100% R-Time compatibility? Yes it is (at least for me it is). I know there are alternative clocks but they all rely on a Z: handler. Sparta-Dos natively supports the RT-8. No need for a handler as it's built into the DOS itself. My BBS also only runs with Sparta-Dos and all time/date related tools are for the RT-8 only. BobTerm is taking advantage of the Sparta-Dos time/date as do some other terminals. To be short, a 100% compatible replacement doesn't need any kind of patching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Trying to get a datasheet for the obsolete part would be a good start. There doesn't seem to be much info on the net apart from an schematic of the cart's electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Hello Robert Back from where? I never left. Just went away for the public for a while .... I guess you just answered your own question. It wasn't my intention to let someone make a batch of R-Time replacements for me to re-sell..... And ... I'm just in doubt if there are enough people who actually want one. Now why do you think I reacted? If enough of us react, it makes sense to start a project like this. ... non-Sparta-Dos users don't really need it either... I don't need everything I want. :D :D greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 Trying to get a datasheet for the obsolete part would be a good start.I have the data sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I have the data sheet. How about uploading it to the forum as a future reference? Maybe the programming section would be a good home for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 How about uploading it to the forum It's on my site. Check Atari related data sheets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 (edited) Thanks! Uploaded for posterity. M3002.pdf EDIT: Added cart schematic. EDIT: Added PCB top image. EDIT: Added PCB bottom image. Edited May 18, 2009 by GroovyBee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 MASSIVE NECROBUMP Sorry, but did not see the purpose of starting a new thread when this one existed . . . . six years ago. . . So, I was kind of wondering: does the PCB exist somewhere? Can it be redesigned? Because, the M3002 seems to exist again. eBay Auction -- Item Number: 380926386757 or am I wrong? If someone could confirm this was the right chip and I am not just hallucinating, I would be willing--with help--to figure out how to make some again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Hello guys I recently heard that Europe isn't the only place in the world, where the current time is broadcast via a radio signal. If I'm informed correctly, there are three different frequencies used for this purpose in the world. And there seems to be a chip that can use them all (read: select the right one according to where you are). Wouldn't it be a better idea (than reproducing the RT8) to use this chip and translate the data to the format the RT8 is using, insuring compatibility to existing software? That way you have the correct time all the time, as this device would set itself. Sincerely Mathy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Z Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hello guys I recently heard that Europe isn't the only place in the world, where the current time is broadcast via a radio signal. If I'm informed correctly, there are three different frequencies used for this purpose in the world. And there seems to be a chip that can use them all (read: select the right one according to where you are). Wouldn't it be a better idea (than reproducing the RT8) to use this chip and translate the data to the format the RT8 is using, insuring compatibility to existing software? That way you have the correct time all the time, as this device would set itself. Sincerely Mathy the radio time stuff tends to not work reliably everywhere. It's best to use this to set a normal RTC, if the signal can be heard, then use the normal RTC from then on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sup8pdct Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Why not use a gps module? Signal is available everywhere, easy to interface to. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 @ FOX-1 Since these chips seem to be available, would getting a new IC suffice for you? Between that and the battery, seems like it would repair 99% of the possible issues. Or do you really want a new device? I've got a "dead" one, also. At one time, I re-flowed the solder connections on the IC, and that made it run for a few days -- then dead again. If someone else can confirm that this is the correct IC, as MacRorie asked above, I'd be willing to be a guinea pig and check into purchasing a 10-pack to see if it breathes new life into my R-Time 8. If so, I'll sell individual chips to users in the U.S. if they want to try to repair theirs. But there may not be a lot of demand to fix these since so many devices now have built-in RTC's. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guus.assmann Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hello Larry, The looks and type number are correct. And I'm pretty sure, if you contact the seller, he'll sell you one or two as well. I've had some parts from them, like the 65C02, and 97% were ok. The other 3% has been replaced, so quite ok. BR/ Guus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hello Joey the radio time stuff tends to not work reliably everywhere. It's best to use this to set a normal RTC, if the signal can be heard, then use the normal RTC from then on. Here in Europe, it seems to run very well. Most train stations seem to get their time from the radio signal and I've been using radio controlled clocks (read: alarm clocks that I do not use a alarm clocks but as normal clocks) for years. These all are set by the radio signal and when the signal is not detected, they just keep running. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hello James Why not use a gps module? I've been told that these are more/very expensive. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Hi Mathy, GPS Arduino type modules are very comparable in price, maybe five dollars more but that's it. I also agree, radio time in the USA is quite good as well, but there IS a trick to it. My Radio Shack atomic time based alarm clock shows when it is reaching out to reset it's time base and has a heavy remote ferrite antenna attached with cord for the best reception of signals. But it never works as good as it does when it's placed right next to the clock itself where it becomes flawless and latches onto a signal every time. I took this with me as an OTR truck driver thru some 45 of the contiguous lower 48 states and never failed to latch up a time reference with it. It does show failed status quite plainly too. Keep the antenna close and it feeds off the receiver's own 'field' and latch up just happens. Only real trouble I had was forgetting to set the proper time zone for the proper wake up time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Hello guys So all we need now, is somebody who can turn this thing into reality. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 My vote would be to use the original chip. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenames99 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 do you guys want replacement boards, replacement ICs or whole new cart assemblies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) do you guys want replacement boards, replacement ICs or whole new cart assemblies? Whole new cart assemblies is what I had in mind. Even going so far as to learn ExpressPCB to do it. I want this BAD! :-) Just ordered 10 chips. Contact me if you want a few. Edited October 7, 2015 by MacRorie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.