5200 vs. 8-bit

[atariksi]

I have never owned an 8-bit Atari computer, but have a 5200 4-port model system. It is a great gaming console. I don't understand all the controller haters because the standard Atari units are very good, even on games like Pac Man. The word I always heard was that the controllers are non-centering so maze type games are difficult. This is simply not the truth. I rebuilt my controllers with new pots and rubber stick boots from Best Electronics. Wow, was that worth it. The new boots act like centering "springs" that return the sticks to center position. Get a 5200 in good working condition and buy Best parts for the controllers and you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

You can't compare until you try out better controllers. If you get used to Atari 800 joysticks, all other joysticks seem inferior including modern XBOX joysticks. A5200 are useable if they are working, but pac-man definitely is better with the A800 type joystick.

C'mon 2600 joysticks are the best for Pacman. I like the 5200 as well but 2600 joysticks are really great! Moddern controllers really stink for classic arcade games.

:ponder:

 

Huh? What joystick is this you speak of? Are you talking the original stock/2600 controllers? I've heard many things, but never that they are superior to all other joysticks including modern ones like the xbox.

Still it's all in what you're used to. I have several adapters for the 5200, and the LAST game I'd play using the 2600 sticks is PacMan. Everyone is so quick to point out how terrible the 5200 sticks are, but they're great for PacMan. You have no reason for them to self center on that game since you hardly ever come to a stop. Not saying the 2600 stock controllers are bad, but after a few rounds at fast speeds you hands will likely cramp being they're so stiff.

 

I think you got the "quotes" mixed up-- couldn't tell what you wrote until I deciphered some things...

[mimo]

Atari 800xl-simple and cheap cable for composite video and just add one wire for s-video

Atari 5200- not so easy to get composite/s-video unless you are good with building circuits or buy a mod board from somewhere

[atariksi]

Atari 800xl-simple and cheap cable for composite video and just add one wire for s-video

Atari 5200- not so easy to get composite/s-video unless you are good with building circuits or buy a mod board from somewhere

 

Which wire is that for 800XL? I may want to try that out rather than use external RF demodulators (which also work by the way for Atari 5200 as well).

[mimo]

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/41580-quick-easy-video-upgrade-for-800xl/page__hl__%3Cspan%20clas

 

this is the full mod which gives fantastic results. If you just want to add the chroma line

Missing Chroma Output

On the bottom of the board, solder a 100-ohm resistor to the junction of R67 and R68. These two adjacent resistors run left to right and their junction is on the left when looking at the top of the board. Put a piece of tape under the resistor to insulate it from the board. Solder a wire from the other end of the resistor to pin 5 of the DIN connector (bottom-left pin from the back).

 

the resistor can also be soldered on the top of the board and a wire run to the jack as in post #2

 

highly recommend to do the full mod though

[atariksi]

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/41580-quick-easy-video-upgrade-for-800xl/page__hl__%3Cspan%20clas

 

this is the full mod which gives fantastic results. If you just want to add the chroma line

Missing Chroma Output

On the bottom of the board, solder a 100-ohm resistor to the junction of R67 and R68. These two adjacent resistors run left to right and their junction is on the left when looking at the top of the board. Put a piece of tape under the resistor to insulate it from the board. Solder a wire from the other end of the resistor to pin 5 of the DIN connector (bottom-left pin from the back).

 

the resistor can also be soldered on the top of the board and a wire run to the jack as in post #2

 

highly recommend to do the full mod though

 

I just read that thread and seems someone is claiming that capacitor C56 is making the major difference on some versions of the XL motherboards.

[ataridave]

Ok, so even if you get a rebuilt 5200 controller, I'm assuming that turning corners with the loose joystick in games like Pac-Man, or making precise moves in any 5200 game, would be really difficult. Is that correct? Because I've never played a 5200, but I have used the 2600 joystick, which is digital, like the one that you can get with, say, an Atari 800XL.

[Mirage]

No, it's not that bad. Some people have issues with it, because with anything in life, there will be those that don't like it, or can't get used to it or whatever. But most people, once they get used to the 5200 controllers, can use them just fine. Now, that's not to say they're ideal for every possible game ever... that would not be possible, as no one controller can be perfect for everything. But the 5200 controllers are really nice controllers in general if you get the rebuilt Best Electronics gold ones. I believe they're actually my favorite controllers ever.

 

BTW, when you get the Best rebuilt ones, they use new boots, and they're not all that "loose". They semi-self-align. I guess you'd just have to try them out to really see what I mean.

[Ransom]

I love playing Pac-Man on the 5200, and the other night I was trying to figure out why so many people over the years have said it's very difficult to play with the 5200 controllers. Perhaps they are used to letting the joystick go back to center after every change in direction? I've always kept a joystick pressed in the current direction, even if it's not meaningful to do that for the game. But I can see where doing it the other way could save you a fraction of a second, I suppose.

 

Either way, I don't find a problem with the 5200 sticks. I find them to be a little bit worse than digital sticks for some platformers that have really tight tolerances between jump and live vs. jump and die (I'm looking at you, Kangaroo!). But for most games, I find the controllers to be either a positive or neutral factor. As with any controller, if the game (whether port or original) is programmed with it in mind, then it'll work fine.

 

(And yep, the 5200 controller is my fave any more, with the Wico bat a close second.)

 

Oh, and one more thing...using the 5200 trak-ball is just wonderful with games like Missile Command and Centipede...and even Pole Position, surprisingly!

[Christophero Sly]

Once you get used to them, the analog controllers work OK with games like Pac-Man, but they're far from ideal. I made do for years playing those types of games with the analog controller. I even convinced myself that I liked using the analog controllers, and I used to defend them on these forums, but once I got a Comp Pro, I realized that it's true, the analog controllers really aren't well suited for many of the 5200's games. The extreme example is Monetuzma's Revenge, a game that absolutely requires digital precision. I find it completely unplayable with the analog controllers.

[Ransom]

I can buy that the analog controllers are bad for Montezuma's Revenge (much like Kangaroo). But I've played all these games on the 8-bit for decades, so I don't think I'm deluding myself about the 5200 controller.

 

But I'll admit I'm weird.

[Mirage]

Well, yeah, they're not going to be optimal for every game. Kinda like how a joystick is not optimal for Breakout, or for Centipede or Missile Command. Ideally, the 5200 would have come with a controller that either had both analog and digital joysticks built-in, or a set of each or something. Still, for the games they do work with, the 5200's controllers are nice controllers.

[tz101]

Ok, so even if you get a rebuilt 5200 controller, I'm assuming that turning corners with the loose joystick in games like Pac-Man, or making precise moves in any 5200 game, would be really difficult. Is that correct? Because I've never played a 5200, but I have used the 2600 joystick, which is digital, like the one that you can get with, say, an Atari 800XL.

 

Get a 5200 and you will be glad you did. The controller haters are to be ignored. If the sticks seem "loose", get some replacement rubber boots from Best Electronics and the sticks are self centering. Pac Man and Ms. Pac Man play nicely with my refurbed stock Atari sticks.

[ataridave]

No, it's not that bad. Some people have issues with it, because with anything in life, there will be those that don't like it, or can't get used to it or whatever. But most people, once they get used to the 5200 controllers, can use them just fine. Now, that's not to say they're ideal for every possible game ever... that would not be possible, as no one controller can be perfect for everything. But the 5200 controllers are really nice controllers in general if you get the rebuilt Best Electronics gold ones. I believe they're actually my favorite controllers ever.

 

BTW, when you get the Best rebuilt ones, they use new boots, and they're not all that "loose". They semi-self-align. I guess you'd just have to try them out to really see what I mean.

 

See, that's exactly what I'd like to do-go to some classic gaming event, (or anywhere, really) and try out a Best rebuilt 5200 controller and see how I like playing games with it. Because I am definitely leaning towards the 5200. Heh, I'll probably end up with both, because I love Atari 8-bit!

[ataridave]

So I've been looking at prices on Ebay, and it looks like Atari 800 carts are pretty hard to find new, or even boxed with instructions, compared to 5200 games. And after emulating Matterhorn and loving it, I still can't find even a cartridge on Ebay. Were these cartridges just not produced in the numbers that they were for the Atari 5200?

[tyranthraxus]

Matterhorn is very rare.

[bohoki]

Matterhorn is very rare.

 

 

matterhorn is that the game that feels like moonpatrol, satans hollow and junglehunt had a baby

 

long ago i had a divide and for cart systems i like atari but for the computer i like the commodore 64

[Divya16]

Matterhorn is very rare.

 

 

matterhorn is that the game that feels like moonpatrol, satans hollow and junglehunt had a baby

 

long ago i had a divide and for cart systems i like atari but for the computer i like the commodore 64

 

I also like carts better than slow-loading devices. But some of the Atari binaries can be loaded in a second or so like a cartridge if you have some sort PC interface.

[ataridave]

Matterhorn is very rare.

 

Yeah, you're right-but I couldn't even find Beamrider-I did find it, very easily (and complete) for the 5200. That's why I'm wondering if 5200 cartridges were just produced in far greater numbers.

[Greg2600]

For me, I don't like the lousy text labels on most of the 8-bit games.

[tyranthraxus]

Yeah, you're right-but I couldn't even find Beamrider-I did find it, very easily (and complete) for the 5200. That's why I'm wondering if 5200 cartridges were just produced in far greater numbers.

 

Well 8-bit rarity vs 5200 rarity is a whole other thread!

 

In general it seems cartridge boxes are harder to find than floppy disk boxes. Also the 5200 and the other pre-1984 consoles tend to have a lot of boxed stock circulating because of the crash.

 

Beamrider came out in 1984 for the 8-bit and is another one of the those crash-era rarities. Remember Atari not only had the console market crash but it also lost the 1983 Christmas computer push to the Commodore 64. So a lot of 1984 3rd party games are difficult to obtain both due to the crash and the 800XL's poor sales. Most of Activision's games that came out for the 8-bit on cartridge arrived in 1984 and are uncommon to rare. After this period Activision switched its focus to the 64 market and disk based games.

Edited May 1, 2010 by tyranthraxus

[+wood_jl]

I say just "GO FOR IT" for the system without the bullshit controllers, man. Any time you own a system that has bullshit controllers, you'll always be thinkin' in the back of your mind about them and how bad they suck. It's like a divine gift from the digital gods when a controller just happens to be bearable - even decent. That's the system you're going to play. When the non-bullshit controllers happen to be the more cheap, plentiful, reliable, and repairable - well that's just all the more God's Speed To You and Your System!

 

To reiterate, in preparedness for any unintentional ambiguity above: GO FOR THE SYSTEM WITOUT THE BULLSHIT CONTROLLER, IF GIVEN THE OPTION.

[Divya16]

I say just "GO FOR IT" for the system without the bullshit controllers, man. Any time you own a system that has bullshit controllers, you'll always be thinkin' in the back of your mind about them and how bad they suck. It's like a divine gift from the digital gods when a controller just happens to be bearable - even decent. That's the system you're going to play. When the non-bullshit controllers happen to be the more cheap, plentiful, reliable, and repairable - well that's just all the more God's Speed To You and Your System!

 

To reiterate, in preparedness for any unintentional ambiguity above: GO FOR THE SYSTEM WITOUT THE BULLSHIT CONTROLLER, IF GIVEN THE OPTION.

 

You didn't take into account that A5200 has the best trackball controller and some third party digital controllers as well as Wico.

[+wood_jl]

I say just "GO FOR IT" for the system without the bullshit controllers, man. Any time you own a system that has bullshit controllers, you'll always be thinkin' in the back of your mind about them and how bad they suck. It's like a divine gift from the digital gods when a controller just happens to be bearable - even decent. That's the system you're going to play. When the non-bullshit controllers happen to be the more cheap, plentiful, reliable, and repairable - well that's just all the more God's Speed To You and Your System!

 

To reiterate, in preparedness for any unintentional ambiguity above: GO FOR THE SYSTEM WITOUT THE BULLSHIT CONTROLLER, IF GIVEN THE OPTION.

 

You didn't take into account that A5200 has the best trackball controller and some third party digital controllers as well as Wico.

 

Whoa! But I did take into account there's what, maybe 2 games (in the world) that support the trackball! And for the rest of the games, there's still the "bullshit" controller.

 

I have the A8 trackball. [no, centipede doesn't support it]. I never fail to CTRL-T with Missile Command, though. That's one of my all-time favorites, A8 MC. Just so happens that it's my favorite, maybe of all Missile Commands. Suits me fine that I'm just crazy enough to own the A8 trackball for ONE BLINKIN' GAME. I'd never try to argue the point, though. Same with if it supported 2 games, like the 5200.

Edited May 2, 2010 by wood_jl

[Shannon]

Pole Position supports the trackball!

[Kjmann]

Whoa! But I did take into account there's what, maybe 2 games (in the world) that support the trackball! And for the rest of the games, there's still the "bullshit" controller.

 

I have the A8 trackball. [no, centipede doesn't support it]. I never fail to CTRL-T with Missile Command, though. That's one of my all-time favorites, A8 MC. Just so happens that it's my favorite, maybe of all Missile Commands. Suits me fine that I'm just crazy enough to own the A8 trackball for ONE BLINKIN' GAME. I'd never try to argue the point, though. Same with if it supported 2 games, like the 5200.

 

We Re-Programed the Trackball routines in the 8-bit conversion of 5200 Centipede so it would use the A8 Trakball IN Trakball mode. We Sell it on cart and we uploaded an XEX file to atariage in this thread.... Centipede Arcade (5200) XEX File <Trakball Support> By Atlantis Games Group

 

The Cart Version is Available in our Ebay Store HERE..... eBay Auction -- Item Number: 130380963243