5200 vs. 8-bit

[walter_J64bit]

I like the 5200 as much as I like the A8, I just wished Atari had took time fix the OEM 5200 Joystick.

Edited May 2, 2010 by walter_J64bit

[Divya16]

I like the 5200 as much as I like the A8, I just wished Atari had took time fix the OEM 5200 Joystick.

 

They should have put the START button and fire button on the console in case the controllers buttons fail so at least we can play the games since the stick normally doesn't fail.

[Divya16]

I say just "GO FOR IT" for the system without the bullshit controllers, man. Any time you own a system that has bullshit controllers, you'll always be thinkin' in the back of your mind about them and how bad they suck. It's like a divine gift from the digital gods when a controller just happens to be bearable - even decent. That's the system you're going to play. When the non-bullshit controllers happen to be the more cheap, plentiful, reliable, and repairable - well that's just all the more God's Speed To You and Your System!

 

To reiterate, in preparedness for any unintentional ambiguity above: GO FOR THE SYSTEM WITOUT THE BULLSHIT CONTROLLER, IF GIVEN THE OPTION.

 

You didn't take into account that A5200 has the best trackball controller and some third party digital controllers as well as Wico.

 

Whoa! But I did take into account there's what, maybe 2 games (in the world) that support the trackball! And for the rest of the games, there's still the "bullshit" controller.

 

I have the A8 trackball. [no, centipede doesn't support it]. I never fail to CTRL-T with Missile Command, though. That's one of my all-time favorites, A8 MC. Just so happens that it's my favorite, maybe of all Missile Commands. Suits me fine that I'm just crazy enough to own the A8 trackball for ONE BLINKIN' GAME. I'd never try to argue the point, though. Same with if it supported 2 games, like the 5200.

 

That may be true for A8 regarding trackball support. I just went and played a bunch of games to see which one work with trackball. Oh, they are also autodetecting so no CTRL-T to press. Here's some that I came across that work with Atari 5200 trackball:

 

Missile Command

Centipede

Super Breakout

Space Invaders

Galaxian

Pole Position (although digital controller or Wico may be better for this one)

 

Maybe others out there (Millipede maybe as I don't have that one).

 

You can use Wico for most other games or the expensive Masterplay interface or some other custom solution.

[Kjmann]

That may be true for A8 regarding trackball support. I just went and played a bunch of games to see which one work with trackball. Oh, they are also autodetecting so no CTRL-T to press. Here's some that I came across that work with Atari 5200 trackball:

 

Missile Command

Centipede

Super Breakout

Space Invaders

Galaxian

Pole Position (although digital controller or Wico may be better for this one)

 

Maybe others out there (Millipede maybe as I don't have that one).

 

You can use Wico for most other games or the expensive Masterplay interface or some other custom solution.

 

First off, Pressing CTRL-T is not that big of a deal.

 

Let's look at these trakball compatible 5200 games for a minute.....

 

 

• Missile Command
  
• Centipede
   
  
  • These two have A8 versions with TrakBall Support so no comparison here. I'd rather us the A8 Trakball any day over that Big Beast 5200 Trakball.
    

  [*]Super Breakout

   

  • The A8 Uses Paddles for this. The paddles are a much better choice for this game rather than a trakball. Playability Wise, anyway.
    

  [*]Space Invaders

  [*]Galaxian

   

  • Why in gods name would anyone want to use a trakball for these games?
    

  [*]Pole Position

   

  • This is the only one I would say would be cool with a trakball option. But the Digital joystick control on the A8 version is good and very playable.
    

 

 

 

I'm not hammering you on this one Divya16. I'm just using your post as a reference point. hope you don't take it personally. =)

[jetset]

Millipede does indeed work with the 5200 trackball. As does Galaxian and Space Invaders, both of which are actually better with a trackball than either the 5200 stick or a 2600 compatible believe it or not.

Defender and Pole Position...ok that's just retarded. How Atari ever got away with saying they were (compatible) is beyond me.

[jetset]

Oh, something that's rarely mentioned in favor of the 5200, which is 2600 compatibility. Sure it's via an adapter, but they're pretty cheap on Ebay, and there's no adapter of any sort to play 2600 games on the 800 line that I'm aware of.

Not that I think it's much of a plus for the system, but it's an option. Every time a 5200 vs. thread pops up that's somehow forgotten. Oddly enough, more often than not when it's a "why did the 5200 fail" discussion, people who know little or nothing about the system cite that as a fault as to why the Coleco outsold the 5200 when in fact both needed an adapter to play 2600 games.

[Kjmann]

Oh, something that's rarely mentioned in favor of the 5200, which is 2600 compatibility. Sure it's via an adapter, but they're pretty cheap on Ebay, and there's no adapter of any sort to play 2600 games on the 800 line that I'm aware of.

 

Why would we need it, or want it? 90% of the 2600 Titles had A8 Conversions Done that had better graphics and sound. most 2600 titles that were not made for the A8 were the Sh**ty titles that no one wanted anyway.

[+wood_jl]

[*]Space Invaders

[*]Galaxian

 

[*]Why in gods name would anyone want to use a trakball for these games?

 

 

Exactly! Concur wholeheartedly.

 

[*]Pole Position

 

[*]This is the only one I would say would be cool with a trakball option. But the Digital joystick control on the A8 version is good and very playable.

 

I'll say! I actually forgot how good the digital (joystick) control was in the A8 version of Pole Position. Yeah, I'd like a paddle. But to tell the truth, you can "tap" your way quite admirably with a joystick on the A8, and it STILL recaptures the fun and excitement of the game. If there ever was an example of using the less-than-ideal controller BUT STILL GETTING IT RIGHT, it's A8 Pole Position.

 

Great example of NOT getting it right? Try one of the Namco Museums (PS1?) with a digital pad. YOU CAN'T EVEN PLAY. Granted, the best home game of Pole Position is probably this same version with an analog control that works.

 

The Interact Ultraracer (PS1) makes this an almost perfect home arcade experience:

 

 

This is a much-much-much improved ripoff of the Namco "Negcon" controller. With it, I think home Pole Position was perfected. Honorable mention goes to the Namco Joystick (with Ms Pacman) that has the twist-stick. Otherwise, every other home version of Pole Position without analog SUCKS besides the A8 version which is amazingly good and still amongst my favorites, despite digital control.

 

KJ: Thanks for pointing out the Centipede business.

[ApolloBoy]

Oh, something that's rarely mentioned in favor of the 5200, which is 2600 compatibility. Sure it's via an adapter, but they're pretty cheap on Ebay, and there's no adapter of any sort to play 2600 games on the 800 line that I'm aware of.

 

Why would we need it, or want it? 90% of the 2600 Titles had A8 Conversions Done that had better graphics and sound. most 2600 titles that were not made for the A8 were the Sh**ty titles that no one wanted anyway.

Indy 500? Yars' Revenge? Pressure Cooker? Solaris? Adventure? Robot Tank? Secret Quest? Plaque Attack? Gravitar? Frostbite? Seaquest? Phoenix? Solar Fox? Sprintmaster? Not to mention all the great homebrews out there?

[Divya16]

[*]Space Invaders

[*]Galaxian

 

[*]Why in gods name would anyone want to use a trakball for these games?

 

 

Exactly! Concur wholeheartedly.

Trackball works better for these games than stock A5200 stick if you ever spent time playing.

[Kjmann]

 

Indy 500? Yars' Revenge? Pressure Cooker? Solaris? Adventure? Robot Tank? Secret Quest? Plaque Attack? Gravitar? Frostbite? Seaquest? Phoenix? Solar Fox? Sprintmaster? Not to mention all the great homebrews out there?

 

Indy 500 and Sprint Master? How about Rally Speedway or Grand Prix Simulator

 

Yar's Revenge? How about Yar's Strike

 

Pressure Cooker? Hmmm... Granted. We don't have that one on the A8. Then again, why would we want it. it wasn't that good of a game.

 

Solaris. Why Play solaris when you can play Star Raiders II. Solaris was just the 2600 version of it anyway.

 

Adventure? Ahem. Ultima Anyone?

 

Robot Tank. a good game yes. but A8 Battlezone was better.

 

Secret Quest. This one is not even worth acknowledging. a pathetic attempt at an Adventure Game.

 

Plaque Attack, Was the guy who did Megamania out of ideas or something?

 

Phoenix.... No no no. HyperBlast!

 

Seaquest? If you're going to do a Submarine game Try this: Seawolf II

 

Frostbite? Solar Fox?. These games Didn't impress me at all. I wouldn't play a Game like them on the A8 and I hope no one wastes their time trying to make them for it. The A8 is capable of much better games.

[jetset]

Oh, something that's rarely mentioned in favor of the 5200, which is 2600 compatibility. Sure it's via an adapter, but they're pretty cheap on Ebay, and there's no adapter of any sort to play 2600 games on the 800 line that I'm aware of.

 

Why would we need it, or want it? 90% of the 2600 Titles had A8 Conversions Done that had better graphics and sound. most 2600 titles that were not made for the A8 were the Sh**ty titles that no one wanted anyway.

 

Well if you're only going to play games with THE best graphics and sound, why are you playing a classic system to begin with? Ebay them and get a 360 or PS3 instead.

[Kjmann]

Oh, something that's rarely mentioned in favor of the 5200, which is 2600 compatibility. Sure it's via an adapter, but they're pretty cheap on Ebay, and there's no adapter of any sort to play 2600 games on the 800 line that I'm aware of.

 

Why would we need it, or want it? 90% of the 2600 Titles had A8 Conversions Done that had better graphics and sound. most 2600 titles that were not made for the A8 were the Sh**ty titles that no one wanted anyway.

 

Well if you're only going to play games with THE best graphics and sound, why are you playing a classic system to begin with? Ebay them and get a 360 or PS3 instead.

 

What a stupid Thing to say. I never said the best graphics. I just said better.

 

This thread is about 5200 vs the 8-bit. the 2600 adapter was brought up, by you, as a suggestion for a "solution" (for lack of a better word) to the small library the 5200 suffers from. My comment was in answer to that.

 

And there were a LOT of Sh**ty Titles for the 2600. Companies that had no business making games were bringing them out just to make a buck on the Video Game Band Wagon at that time. It's one of the things that helped set the 80's video game crash in motion.

 

Because the A8 was a computer, it didn't suffer from that problem. companies making games put more time into them.

 

If that's all you got out of my post was That I liked the best graphics then you either didn't read it completely or you lack the intelligence to understand it.

 

If You wanna talk new gen systems. then go here.

[jetset]

Wow. Someone's a bit of a power tool. Fanboy much?

[ApolloBoy]

 

Indy 500? Yars' Revenge? Pressure Cooker? Solaris? Adventure? Robot Tank? Secret Quest? Plaque Attack? Gravitar? Frostbite? Seaquest? Phoenix? Solar Fox? Sprintmaster? Not to mention all the great homebrews out there?

 

Indy 500 and Sprint Master? How about Rally Speedway or Grand Prix Simulator

I didn't think Rally Speedway was all that great, really. I'll have to give Grand Prix Simulator a go though. Still, neither use the Driving Controller, which is what makes Indy 500 so fun to play.

 

Yar's Revenge? How about Yar's Strike

I tried that one too, and it just doesn't have the same feel as the original.

 

Pressure Cooker? Hmmm... Granted. We don't have that one on the A8. Then again, why would we want it. it wasn't that good of a game.

I love Pressure Cooker actually, and it's one of the better games out there on the 2600, so don't say "we" when it's actually just your opinion.

 

Solaris. Why Play solaris when you can play Star Raiders II. Solaris was just the 2600 version of it anyway.

Um, Solaris plays pretty different compared to SRII. Have you ever played it before?

 

Adventure? Ahem. Ultima Anyone?

The Ultima games just aren't the same as Adventure. One of the things that made Adventure fun is the third quest in which all the items are randomized. Plus the Ultima games aren't exactly a "pick up and play" type of game like Adventure is. In Ultima, you have to set up your party first, whereas in Adventure you can just press the Reset switch and get going.

 

Robot Tank. a good game yes. but A8 Battlezone was better.

I thought A8 Battlezone was disappointing and clunky. I was expecting so much better, especially since the A8 version has graphics similar to the original game.

 

Secret Quest. This one is not even worth acknowledging. a pathetic attempt at an Adventure Game.

Pathetic according to you, but I thought Secret Quest was fun and pretty advanced for a 2600 game in that has a password feature.

 

Plaque Attack, Was the guy who did Megamania out of ideas or something?

Hey, there aren't that many games out there where you're a tube of toothpaste shooting at junk food. That alone makes Plaque Attack interesting.

 

Phoenix.... No no no. HyperBlast!

Hyperblast looks pretty cool actually, I'll give that one a try.

 

Seaquest? If you're going to do a Submarine game Try this: Seawolf II

Seawolf II isn't even close to Seaquest.

 

Frostbite? Solar Fox?. These games Didn't impress me at all. I wouldn't play a Game like them on the A8 and I hope no one wastes their time trying to make them for it. The A8 is capable of much better games.

 

You also didn't address my last point about all the homebrews out there for the 2600. I don't think there's games like Elevators Amiss, FlapPing, K.O. Cruiser or SCSIcide on the A8, are there? I know I kind of sound like a fanboy, but I guess what I'm trying to say is don't count the 2600 out.

[bohoki]

you have to look at the intent of the features of the 5200 to get a clear picture

 

the controller cords are short like 3 feet and the rf cord is long like 20 feet so they seemed to intend you to have the unit on your coffee table with one cord going to the tv that being the case i could see that they maybe should have had a more sturdy set of buttons on the unit at least reset since with their controllers you are never more than 4 feet away from the unit

 

they wanted every thing uniform so that is why every controller is identical (nintendo had an experiment at the beginning of the famicom controller one had start and select but controller 2 only had a and b and a mike to scream at the like-likes on zelds)

 

i have the pc ultra racer and honestly i prefer to use a joystick with pole position i probably have more joysticks than anybody

 

i have seen sellers trying to sell pc joysticks modded for the 5200 and if they did it right it works

 

the wico is decent but make sure it comes with the y cord or you feel like making one

 

this one seems neat eBay Auction -- Item Number: 170479686596

 

ive been enjoying my wico merlin on the 5200

 

its got a tight throw and the top thumb button allows for switching positon to prevent fatigue

 

[Kjmann]

I didn't think Rally Speedway was all that great, really. I'll have to give Grand Prix Simulator a go though. Still, neither use the Driving Controller, which is what makes Indy 500 so fun to play.

 

Yar's Revenge? How about Yar's Strike

I tried that one too, and it just doesn't have the same feel as the original.

 

Pressure Cooker? Hmmm... Granted. We don't have that one on the A8. Then again, why would we want it. it wasn't that good of a game.

I love Pressure Cooker actually, and it's one of the better games out there on the 2600, so don't say "we" when it's actually just your opinion.

 

Solaris. Why Play solaris when you can play Star Raiders II. Solaris was just the 2600 version of it anyway.

Um, Solaris plays pretty different compared to SRII. Have you ever played it before?

 

Adventure? Ahem. Ultima Anyone?

The Ultima games just aren't the same as Adventure. One of the things that made Adventure fun is the third quest in which all the items are randomized. Plus the Ultima games aren't exactly a "pick up and play" type of game like Adventure is. In Ultima, you have to set up your party first, whereas in Adventure you can just press the Reset switch and get going.

 

Robot Tank. a good game yes. but A8 Battlezone was better.

I thought A8 Battlezone was disappointing and clunky. I was expecting so much better, especially since the A8 version has graphics similar to the original game.

 

Secret Quest. This one is not even worth acknowledging. a pathetic attempt at an Adventure Game.

Pathetic according to you, but I thought Secret Quest was fun and pretty advanced for a 2600 game in that has a password feature.

 

Plaque Attack, Was the guy who did Megamania out of ideas or something?

Hey, there aren't that many games out there where you're a tube of toothpaste shooting at junk food. That alone makes Plaque Attack interesting.

 

Phoenix.... No no no. HyperBlast!

Hyperblast looks pretty cool actually, I'll give that one a try.

 

Seaquest? If you're going to do a Submarine game Try this: Seawolf II

Seawolf II isn't even close to Seaquest.

 

Frostbite? Solar Fox?. These games Didn't impress me at all. I wouldn't play a Game like them on the A8 and I hope no one wastes their time trying to make them for it. The A8 is capable of much better games.

 

You also didn't address my last point about all the homebrews out there for the 2600. I don't think there's games like Elevators Amiss, FlapPing, K.O. Cruiser or SCSIcide on the A8, are there? I know I kind of sound like a fanboy, but I guess what I'm trying to say is don't count the 2600 out.

 

In my original post about the 2600 game the point I was trying to make was that the 2600 adapter was a poor solution for the lack of titles available on the 5200. I don't count out the 2600. It's just not my bag. But the other person that brought it up was acting as if the 2600 adapter was something that could bring the 5200 to the level of the A8 for game selection. It doesn't. if a person is talking game selection then having a bunch of games to use on your newer system from old technology is not the answer.

 

The Homebrews are pretty nice in a lot of cases. Sorry I didn't address this in my post to you apolloboy. the new PacMan was really nice. Although it's still not as Nice as the A8 Version, but a damn nice improvement. the A8 has a very active and nice homebrew scene as well though.

 

But Bringing up the 2600 adapter in a 8-bit vs 5200 thread was not valid to the subject. if a person wants to play 2600 games, then they will probably go buy a 2600. not a 5200 and an adapter. In my opinion of course.

 

The reason I came off so course with jetset is that there was no reason for the potshot he took at me. He obviously didn't read my post. He wasn't stating an opinion. he was just taking a shot at mine.

 

I like the A8 because of the graphics abilities, the sound (I like the pokey chip), the large number of controller options for it, and the great game selection. But I never play a game system or Game simply because the graphics look good. That's just stupid.

 

Yes that's my opinion. but isn't that what a forum is for? to express ones opinions without fear of scrutiny?

[jetset]

 

 

The reason I came off so course with jetset is that there was no reason for the potshot he took at me. He obviously didn't read my post. He wasn't stating an opinion. he was just taking a shot at mine.

 

 

Actually my post yesterday was a direct reply to Divya16 talking about the trackball. You then quoted ME with a pretty scathing insult to the 2600, which though pure opinion on your part was unnecessary.

You then replied again to another of my posts, asking you a question, where you started with the insults like stupid and lacking intelligence. I took no potshots at you.

I seriously suggest you take a pill or get laid or something but please otherwise get over yourself. It doesn't serve you well particularly when you have an advertisement in your signature directing people to buy from you off ebay.

[Kjmann]

Actually my post yesterday was a direct reply to Divya16 talking about the trackball. You then quoted ME with a pretty scathing insult to the 2600, which though pure opinion on your part was unnecessary.

You then replied again to another of my posts, asking you a question, where you started with the insults like stupid and lacking intelligence. I took no potshots at you.

I seriously suggest you take a pill or get laid or something but please otherwise get over yourself. It doesn't serve you well particularly when you have an advertisement in your signature directing people to buy from you off ebay.

 

If I want to insult the atari 2600. I have that right. at that point I was Voicing my opinion of the 2600. not you. Obviously you took my comment on the 2600 as a personal insult. Why? it's just and inanimate object.

 

at first I said....

 

Why would we need it, or want it (The 2600 adapter)? 90% of the 2600 Titles had A8 Conversions Done that had better graphics and sound. most 2600 titles that were not made for the A8 were the Sh**ty titles that no one wanted anyway.

 

I don't see anything in there insulting or derogatory that was directed at you.

 

Then you replied:

Well if you're only going to play games with THE best graphics and sound, why are you playing a classic system to begin with? Ebay them and get a 360 or PS3 instead.

 

To Which I replied:

 

What a stupid Thing to say. I never said the best graphics. I just said better.

and

If that's all you got out of my post was That I liked the best graphics then you either didn't read it completely or you lack the intelligence to understand it.

 

Sounds like you're the one that has a problem here.

Besides, Telling someone to "Take a Pill" Or "Get Laid" Doesn't exactly show you have a level of intelligence much higher than an 8th grader.

At least ApolloBoy didn't come back whining with 'Why don't you just go play an xbox 360'. He had an intelligible point to make.

[atariksi]

...

Great example of NOT getting it right? Try one of the Namco Museums (PS1?) with a digital pad. YOU CAN'T EVEN PLAY. Granted, the best home game of Pole Position is probably this same version with an analog control that works.

 

The Interact Ultraracer (PS1) makes this an almost perfect home arcade experience:

 

 

This is a much-much-much improved ripoff of the Namco "Negcon" controller. With it, I think home Pole Position was perfected. Honorable mention goes to the Namco Joystick (with Ms Pacman) that has the twist-stick. Otherwise, every other home version of Pole Position without analog SUCKS besides the A8 version which is amazingly good and still amongst my favorites, despite digital control.

 

KJ: Thanks for pointing out the Centipede business.

 

You can actually use analog and digital controls for Pole Position on Atari 5200. It works with Atari 2600 Paddle, it works with digital interface (like MasterPlay), and trackball. And that picture of a joystick looks complex for the controls that Pole Position needs. Simplicity also makes things fun to play. I put aside my Playstation a few months ago and now I have no idea anymore which buttons do what.

[ataridave]

One thing that really concerns me about getting an Atari 800XL, is that a lot of the cartridge-based games seem MUCH more expensive and harder to come by then their 5200 counterparts. Take Beamrider, for example-I've been going off Ebay, and I don't think I've ever seen an Atari 8-bit cartridge for the game. Some Atari 8-bit games are over $30 on Ebay without even a manual!

[birdie3]

A freakin' 8!! Hands down. Total no-brainer. The 5200 was merely Atari repackaging their amazing computer technology so it could compete with Coleco and Intelivision.

 

Just post your A8 wants list in the WANTED section. There are alot more A8 collectors that you may be aware of.

Edited August 7, 2010 by birdie3

[eightbit]

I was a huge A8 collector a few years ago, and nearly completed the cart collection. I ended up selling it all of (kind of regret that) and moved on to other things. These days I have a5200 and nearly a complete set (missing ONE game now) and still do have an 800XL that I use with the SIO2PC interface. If you are really looking to fully experience the Atari XL/XE line of computers on a budget, I highly recommend the SIO2PC interface that Atarimax sells. Basically uses your PC as the disk drive and allows you to mount downloaded atari disk images and run them on the actual machine. Not to mention it emulates printers and modems. It just rocks...and it is currently the only way I can play BBSB on real hardware!

 

I have MUCH love for the 5200 however. Yes, it is based off of the 800 line, but it certainly commands the respect of a very powerful game console. The games are fantastic, there exists some really kick ass homebrew, and the system is a tank. It is NOT exactly like the 8-bit computer as many will say. There are differences in the hardware and the games themselves.

 

I own them both, and love em both equally!

[Divya16]

One thing that really concerns me about getting an Atari 800XL, is that a lot of the cartridge-based games seem MUCH more expensive and harder to come by then their 5200 counterparts. Take Beamrider, for example-I've been going off Ebay, and I don't think I've ever seen an Atari 8-bit cartridge for the game. Some Atari 8-bit games are over $30 on Ebay without even a manual!

 

Not all 8-bit games came on cartridge. I just bought Zaxxon cassette and I don't think I'll ever load it; just for the manual.