STE'86 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 told u before Pete. he's mad as a fcking snake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Great. Thanks for the Videolink. I laughed my arse off , listening to that helpless presentation. I wonder why he never said " You know my life " by just according to what the C64 freaks want to hear... Yeah.... he just got the C64 , loading and saving stuff took 45 minutes and every single learning step took a full night till 5am.... And he poked all into Basic, crashing the machine multiple times. After all, he had the music available in "some days".... At least he seems to be very clever, telling C64 guys all they want to hear. ..... you know ..... You really are obnoxious aren't you? Now you'll attack RH who isn't here to defend himself by basically saying he's lying or just leaving out the facts you've made up in your head. Good one. Troll. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Yeah.... he just got the C64 , loading and saving stuff took 45 minutes and every single learning step took a full night till 5am.... And he poked all into Basic, crashing the machine multiple times. Yes, that's hand assembling and it's how i started out on the VIC 20 and then A8 and i expect most other 8-bit coders began on their respective platforms if their machine of choice didn't have a monitor - until i got the C64, i couldn't even find an assembler in the local shops. After all, he had the music available in "some days".... Because if you'd actually listened to what he'd said, he was working in an assembler with a monitor to tweak things by the point he was doing music commercially; since he got the C64 in presumably late 1982 and the first commercial game he composed music for wasn't until 1985, that's at least two years to spend transitioning from hand assembly to using an assembler. At least he seems to be very clever, telling C64 guys all they want to hear. Shame it wasn't a room full of C64 guys then really, that talk was at Assembly 2002 and most of that front row don't look old enough to be C64 sceners - of the few C64 sceners at Asm, hardly any would've been sober enough to stay on chairs for that long anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 emkay has been banned from this topic. ..Al 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Apologies to the topic starter for that short interlude It's annoying (at least) to be forced into defending someone/something when someone posts things they've just made up in their own head, especially as it's no doubt targeted at those of us seen as "C64 freaks" when in fact we're "multi-platform freaks" who just happen to know the facts. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Listen to the music, Hubbard did. Then listen to the music of Galway and others. You clearly recognize the difference in the usage of SID music. I'd bet that tunes like International Karate and Jet Set Willy were there on the A8 before.... even before C64 reached the market. The Sid versions got enhanced by the given generators and the easier handling of music stuff. That's all. Hubbard is often called "Music God" by C64 freaks. But, really, he only was something like that on the SID. The flat ear hurting sounds, he produced with the Pokey brings all back to the ground. The music itself was well, but you never could drive the stereo to an enhanced level. I wonder, how the results would sound with some enhanced POKEY sounds. Btw: so the most successful and famous musician in computer gaming history chose the most advanced soundchip available in any computer for 10 years and he chose the wrong platform did he? i very much doubt he would agree. This is an oxymoron how you wrote this sentence. When Hubbard went to use SID and the C64 for making music, he wasn't any famous. The KEY moment for his sussess, is one of the KEY moments for the C64. You might remember that he was the "1st" musician releasing a real piece of music on the C64 in Monty. So what happened, if he really was a "Music God" and created such stuff for the A8 ? And then listen to other composers and you notice their music sounds unique too. The wrong platform was not chosen as 1. 99/100 they sound a lot better on SID 2. SID music sounds different between composers unlike with Pokey stuff. Nice try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I still prefer Pokey International Karate over the SID version... to be honest... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 ah, of course... Warhawk is definitly better imho in the pokey edition... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Nothing wrong with having a preference for one version or another, especially for the one you're more used to. IK is fine on the A8 and it's half stolen from Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence anyway Just don't try claiming Rob wrote it on the 2600, ported it to the A8, then the C64 There are differences between note choice, I wonder if that's to avoid out of tune 8bit notes? or did someone mention lack of RAM somewhere? like he's had to miss out some patterns to make it fit. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 ah, of course... Warhawk is definitly better imho in the pokey edition... Now you've just gone crazy. lol Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I still prefer Pokey International Karate over the SID version... to be honest... I prefer the pokey version too. Sounds very strong and solid. It's a pity that some part of music was missed, i guess because the game should be hold on 48K Warhawk is fine on pokey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I prefer the pokey version too. Sounds very strong and solid. It's a pity that some part of music was missed, i guess because the game should be hold on 48K Removing bits of Warhawk like that probably wouldn't have saved a lot of memory to be honest, Hubbard's driver is pretty efficient; i'd always assumed that the bits missing from it, IK and Extirpator were all missing because they used effects like ring modulation that would be a bugger to replicate on the POKEY...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) I prefer the pokey version too. Sounds very strong and solid. It's a pity that some part of music was missed, i guess because the game should be hold on 48K Removing bits of Warhawk like that probably wouldn't have saved a lot of memory to be honest, Hubbard's driver is pretty efficient; i'd always assumed that the bits missing from it, IK and Extirpator were all missing because they used effects like ring modulation that would be a bugger to replicate on the POKEY...? Yeah, certainly wouldn't be the difference between 48 and 64k, might gain 1k max by missing a fair few patterns. Sure I read it somewhere though. I can't see it just being stuff like the ring mod (on IK) because even the main tune has sections missing within the first few bars as if it's a remix with a cutdown set of patterns but using the same voice. It's either that, or the problem with out of tune notes and he just couldn't be bothered going to 16bit on one channel to fix it. Pete Edited February 21, 2010 by PeteD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 maybe I give IK a try for the SID version... but as far as I can remember while listenting both versions in the car for hours (I have a CD with sid/pokey tunes) I feel to miss one channel on the IK SID and Warhawk... I don't like on WH tune esp. on the SID version that the "lonely" theme at the beginning... I am more into the "punching" A8 version... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I don't like on WH tune esp. on the SID version that the "lonely" theme at the beginning... I am more into the "punching" A8 version... i liked the intro myself, it was almost a Hubbard trademark for a while to almost change entirely once the intro was out of the way. =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Actually, having a quick snoop there are only 3 channels on IK and Warhawk (so no "missing" ones on SID, especially as the SID versions were first) but to throw my 8bit channel theory out the window he is using channel 1+2 as a 16bit channel. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I don't like on WH tune esp. on the SID version that the "lonely" theme at the beginning... I am more into the "punching" A8 version... i liked the intro myself, it was almost a Hubbard trademark for a while to almost change entirely once the intro was out of the way. =-) I've got to have not heard it for a while to enjoy it else it grates somewhat. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rdemming Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) And then listen to other composers and you notice their music sounds unique too. The wrong platform was not chosen as 1. 99/100 they sound a lot better on SID 2. SID music sounds different between composers unlike with Pokey stuff. They even say that the same SID tune sounds different on different SID revisions and even on the same SID revision because of the variation in the analogue parts of the chip. One thing I noticed of Rob's themes between C64/Atari 8-bit is that the versions are often quite different on each platform while the tunes from David Whittaker are almost the same on each platform. Robert B.T.W. I like the Amaurote title music/level select better on the Atari than C64. The Atari version has the metalic sounding beat (C64 version, ZX Spectrum 128K, (unfortunately not the title music ) ) Edited February 22, 2010 by rdemming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 They even say that the same SID tune sounds different on different SID revisions and even on the same SID revision because of the variation in the analogue parts of the chip. Yup, specifically in the filters where there can be around 20% variance between models (according to Martin Walker); Martin Galway's Terra Cresta theme was a good test back in the day, i had two C64s sat next to each other and one played long, filtered notes for the lead whilst the other cut off almost immediately. The consistency was far better with the 8580 SID chips, but of course they had barely any filters compared to the 6581s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 A little thought about Warhawk and the intro, it seems the A8 one is basically Proteus which was Warhawk V1 before the name and code were finalised. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 What strikes me about Rob is that this mega syth super computer music maker is such a quiet reserved guy who says very little and comes across as if he's either bored or boring when you chat to him. I quite expected a very different person, very much more loud like his music Its strange how you suspect some people are going to be and they are almost the opposite in real life.. Most of them were. All talent, no ego needed. I worked With Ben Daglish for a while and he's a really cool friendly guy with no pretensions. Pete Oddly enough I beta tested a little util for his mate Tony Crowther, was a really nice bloke, didn't like to be in the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Whilst there's some cracking tunes on the Atari I still prefer the warmth of the Sid chip for most stuff, there's nothing more peaceful as a listen of Monty on the Run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 HA! Looking like "Atari vs. Commodore" brewing again! Maybe not the thread title, but our old pal Bill Shakespeare's "A rose by any other name..." line works! (not a complaint; this stuff is always a good read) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 What strikes me about Rob is that this mega syth super computer music maker is such a quiet reserved guy who says very little and comes across as if he's either bored or boring when you chat to him. I quite expected a very different person, very much more loud like his music Its strange how you suspect some people are going to be and they are almost the opposite in real life.. Most of them were. All talent, no ego needed. I worked With Ben Daglish for a while and he's a really cool friendly guy with no pretensions. Pete Oddly enough I beta tested a little util for his mate Tony Crowther, was a really nice bloke, didn't like to be in the crowd. Please, please, that's Anthony. (little joke for anyone who ever met his GF/Possibly now wife). Even oddlier enough I was on breakfast TV play testing Loco, along with Sheep in Space (Minter) and some other stuff I can't remember I Must've been 14/15 at the time, seems like I was younger though. Weird. It wasn't the 3in1 editor you tested was it? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 HA! Looking like "Atari vs. Commodore" brewing again! Maybe not the thread title, but our old pal Bill Shakespeare's "A rose by any other name..." line works! (not a complaint; this stuff is always a good read) Nah, there's no argument here about it apart from emkay's ridiculous posts yesterday causing a stir because he'd basically made up everything he posted I've got no problem at all with people having a preference, it's delusion/lies I think most of us "C64 freaks" have a problem with. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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