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Atari 410 vs.......Atari 410! (1010/XC11/12 too)


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#1 wood_jl OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:26 PM

In 1980 as a young kid, I got my first A8 (400, 8K, CTIA). I got a 410 a the same time. I almost never see 410 like I had - and of course I am talking about Ebay listings, because where else are you going to see 410????

I remember other kids in Elementary/Jr. High who had 400/410 for a while and then their folks bought an Apple "Because those Atari tape drives are SOOOO SLOOOOOOW and you can get a disk drive for the Apple." Heh heh.

My 410 looked like this:

Atari 410 like mine.jpg

Who is the maker? This must have been early models only??? This must be kind of rare, as it's hard to find image using Google!

Almost every other 410 I've ever seen (back in the day personally, and Ebay today) looks like this:

Atari 410 other.jpg

Who is the maker?

Which 410 is better/more reliable/easier to find belts?


Some 1010 have orange decal inside, which is a Japan model:

Atari 1010 orange.jpg

Who is the maker?

Some 1010 have silver decal inside, which is a Hong Kong (or Taiwan????) model:

Atari 1010 silver.jpg

Who is the maker?

Stop/eject key and Pause key transposed between the two.

Which 1010 is better/more reliable/easier to find belts?

Are the power supplies the same for both models?

I have never seen Atari XC11:

Atari xc11.jpg

Who is the maker?
What countries was it sold in?

I have never seen Atari XC12:

Atari xc12.jpg

Who is the maker?
What countries was it sold in?

Which XC is better/more reliable/easier to find belts?

One runs from SIO power (XC12??) and what does the other use for power supply?

Whew! Thanks for any info!

And finally, how come the Commodore Datasette was so much faster?

Edited by wood_jl, Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:28 PM.


#2 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:00 PM

I have all of those boxed. The Atari XC11 was definitely the hardest to find. From my experience they all run/function exactly the same although some may not have SIO ports and must be on the end of the chain. I personally use the first model 410 just because I like the way it looks with my 800.

Tempest

#3 beamer320i OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:08 PM

Hi!

Don't know if this is of any help but here goes...

The first 410 pictured is an early unit indeed and is pictured in the first edition of the 400/800 manuals dated 79/80 (manuals dated 81 onwards picture the 2nd type) maker unknown. I have one early unit, and it still has its original belts so slow rewind/FF, but still loads ok! Excellent build quality, perhaps over engineered?

Later 410 (maker unknown) much more common, all four drive belts are available. Fair to good quality, some people say they are garbage but I think thats harsh, they do the job (most of the time!)

1010 units - orange label denotes Sanyo manufacture, silver label denotes Chelco manufacture - both are regarded as the strongest and most relaible of all the 8-bit cassette units, but go for the Sanyo if possible, they are more rare than the Chelco but of a higher quality. Replacement belts are available for all models.

XC-11 - never had one, only made for a very short time, still looking! They look great, have a built-in pass through SIO port and are supposed to be very good.

XC-12 - excellent compact units which take their power via the SIO cable. Made for the European market (?) these are quite common in the U.K., I have six(!) and never had to replace a belt on one yet!

#4 mimo OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:12 PM

love the looks of the 410, especially the early one. I would love to get my hands on one of those.
I find the XC12 o be the most reliable, maybe because they are newer or are they direct drive? never had to take one apart.
next up is the 1010 for reliability and in last place the 410, they were never any good even when new so why would they be any better after 30 years :?

#5 beamer320i OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:31 PM

Another way to tell the 1010's apart is that the STOP/EJECT and PAUSE button are reversed.

Just noticed the early 410 has a orange label a la 1010 Sanyo model, could it be the same manufacturer or just a lazy assumption on my part?!Posted Image

#6 Rhod OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:34 PM

i have all of these models

but not this (prototyp)
http://rhod.fr/pages/410proto.html

#7 Wilheim OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:25 PM

The 410 was sold here in Chile, South America, it's uncommon, but not rare. I saw a lot of friends who had one.

#8 lbaeza OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:44 PM

The XC12 was very popular here in Chile, too.

Regards

#9 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:54 PM

It's been my experience that 90% of the newer style 410's I've found are dead (including the one I originally owned back in 1980). The older style 410 I own is still going strong so maybe they had better build quality? I've also had no luck with 1010's, but it's more like a 50% failure rate.

Tempest

#10 TwiliteZoner OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:05 AM

It's been my experience that 90% of the newer style 410's I've found are dead (including the one I originally owned back in 1980). The older style 410 I own is still going strong so maybe they had better build quality? I've also had no luck with 1010's, but it's more like a 50% failure rate.

Tempest


I'm with ya on the 1010's. My original 410 is still motoring. The XC11 looks like its in an ST disk drive.

#11 spookt OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:11 AM

I'll have to dig out my XC11s and try them, think I have 2 somewhere.

For some bizzare reason the XC12s I have ALL work. In my opinion they're the cheapest feeling of all the models Atari produced, but they just keep going. I have a box full of 1010s but half need new belts and a couple of 410s which I picked up for completeness and have never tried.

In the UK (and possibly Europe too?) there was another branded unit produced by Phonemark which looks like a cream and brown XC12. I have one somewhere but I've always assumed it was just a rebranded XC12.

#12 EightBitWitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:31 AM

I have never seen Atari XC11:

Atari xc11.jpg

Who is the maker?
What countries was it sold in?


I have bought my new XC11 in 1983 with my first new 800XL (previously i bought only used) in a "Photo Porst"-Shop in Germany. I wanted to have a 1010, but it was nowhere to buy.

Edited by EightBitWitch, Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:46 AM.


#13 ApolloBoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:02 PM

I have bought my new XC11 in 1983 with my first new 800XL (previously i bought only used) in a "Photo Porst"-Shop in Germany. I wanted to have a 1010, but it was nowhere to buy.

1983? The XC11 wasn't released until around 1985 or 1986.

#14 JohnBuell OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:15 PM

I've only ever had one 1010, and it's still chugging along. I've thought about getting a 410 sometime to go with the 400/800 part of my collection, but right now I'm just focusing on keeping what I have working, or make it a little nicer.

Oh, and that said, I've long been interested in the tape drive mods that increase the baud rate - are those available anywhere still and are they compatible with US tape drives (I'm thinking in terms of power).

#15 EightBitWitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:23 PM

I have bought my new XC11 in 1983 with my first new 800XL (previously i bought only used) in a "Photo Porst"-Shop in Germany. I wanted to have a 1010, but it was nowhere to buy.

1983? The XC11 wasn't released until around 1985 or 1986.


You are right, i now remember that i bought my first 800XL in 1986, previously i had a TI 99/4a borrowed from friends of my parents. I had forgotten that the 800XL was not my first computer.

Edited by EightBitWitch, Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:44 PM.


#16 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:27 PM

That first (long) 410 is made in Japan. There are two variations of it. One has a captive AC cord and one has a plug-in wall-wart. I used to own both varieties.

#17 wood_jl OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:39 PM

That first (long) 410 is made in Japan. There are two variations of it. One has a captive AC cord and one has a plug-in wall-wart. I used to own both varieties.


I had the captive AC cord model....my first (and only) cassette recorder. Man, I can't believe I let that stuff go....for probably nothing, and mint.


I've been dying to play with cassette recorders again (hence this thread) and the 1010 is the only readily-available model. After nearly 25 years of wondering what the Conversational Language tapes are like, I'm going to find out shortly.

As Preppie! said, I seem to remember losing many type-in BASIC listings over the years with my 410.....and I remember cleaning the heads, saving multiple copies. By the time I got my first disc drive, I was saving programs over and over again - multiple copies on the same tape, and then multiple copies on another tape. Any old 410 users remember how frustrated you'd be when loading in your saved tape BASIC program, only to have the SIO beeps go "blaaaaaaaaaaah" like a belch/fart letting you know your stuff ain't loading???!!!?! Seems kind of funny now.

So I broke down and bought 2 1010s, each at different prices:

First one from B&C. Sounds pretty damn expensive, but it's verified tested by loading and saving programs, and I trust B&C quite well with all the stuff I've bought from them over the years. I just want one that works, now. (I guess it's not too expensive if they found a buyer who will pay it....ME!!)
eBay Auction -- Item Number: 140421794753

Second one was on Ebay today, complete in box. Price doesn't get any better (cheap!!) and looks good in the small/undetailed pic, but taking a chance on this one:
eBay Auction -- Item Number: 260632925495
[edit: now that I think about it, I didn't see the power supply or SIO cable in the pic, and it just says recorder and manual...we'll see!]

Assuming I'm going to have trouble with the belts, anybody have source for this? Best Electronics, maybe? Maybe some other "standard" belt works?

I like the looks of those XC models. The direct-drive XC12 sounds like it might be a winner. *NEVER* seen one for sale on Yankee Ebay. As a matter of fact, a worldwide Ebay search turn up a 65XE/XC12 combo for sale in Spain....and NOTHING else!

Edited by wood_jl, Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:42 PM.


#18 rchennau OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:06 PM

[quote name='wood_jl' date='Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:39 PM' timestamp='1279168791' post='2051234']
[quote name='Bryan' date='Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:27 PM' timestamp='1279160856' post='2051173']
Second one was on Ebay today, complete in box. Price doesn't get any better (cheap!!) and looks good in the small/undetailed pic, but taking a chance on this one:
eBay Auction -- Item Number: 260632925495
[edit: now that I think about it, I didn't see the power supply or SIO cable in the pic, and it just says recorder and manual...we'll see!]

Assuming I'm going to have trouble with the belts, anybody have source for this? Best Electronics, maybe? Maybe some other "standard" belt works?

I like the looks of those XC models. The direct-drive XC12 sounds like it might be a winner. *NEVER* seen one for sale on Yankee Ebay. As a matter of fact, a worldwide Ebay search turn up a 65XE/XC12 combo for sale in Spain....and NOTHING else!
[/quote]

I was looking at that one myself. Decided not to get it because I have 2 1010 (on is busted) as it is. I was really only interested in the box. Glad you picked it up.

Belt thread can be found here . I remember ordering a few online for my 410 and 1010 (Yes I have both). I seem to recall the vendor mentioned in the thread had a limited supply.

Edited by rchennau, Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:09 PM.


#19 wood_jl OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:42 PM

Second one was on Ebay today, complete in box. Price doesn't get any better (cheap!!) and looks good in the small/undetailed pic, but taking a chance on this one:
eBay Auction -- Item Number: 260632925495
[edit: now that I think about it, I didn't see the power supply or SIO cable in the pic, and it just says recorder and manual...we'll see!]

Assuming I'm going to have trouble with the belts, anybody have source for this? Best Electronics, maybe? Maybe some other "standard" belt works?

I like the looks of those XC models. The direct-drive XC12 sounds like it might be a winner. *NEVER* seen one for sale on Yankee Ebay. As a matter of fact, a worldwide Ebay search turn up a 65XE/XC12 combo for sale in Spain....and NOTHING else!


I was looking at that one myself. Decided not to get it because I have 2 1010 (on is busted) as it is. I was really only interested in the box. Glad you picked it up.

Belt thread can be found here . I remember ordering a few online for my 410 and 1010 (Yes I have both). I seem to recall the vendor mentioned in the thread had a limited supply.


Heh heh. Not the first time another AA member said they were looking at the same Ebay stuff as I. :)

Thanks for pointing to the belt thread. I guess I should have searched for "belt" myself, but thanks for helping out! People looking for cassette player belts=dying breed, eh?

#20 orpheuswaking OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:46 AM

That's not too bad a price on the one from myatari (B&C) being that it is tested and has a warranty. I would imagine that it has okay belts on it too coming from them. Also you get the PSU and a SIO cable (Expensive enough to buy separately unless you get them in lots like I do)

The other one looks fairly good and if it only needs a couple belts well worth it.

HOWEVER

I have 4 of the 1010 units, and they all work, and I've NEVER changed a belt. On my XC12 however I've changed belts twice... My 410's I don't even bother with.


Oh and just FYI... From BEST Electronics

1010 Hong Kong Motor Belt $9.00 limit 2
(two different styles, has flat version)

1010 Hong Kong Counter Belt $0.75 limit 2

1010 Japan Motor Belt $3.00 no limit

1010 Japan Counter Belt out of stock.


<P dir=ltr>Both 410's use the same belts

Tape Belt $1.50
Motor Belt $1.50
Counter Belt $1.50





Hmmm, with the 410's being so $4.50 per unit to completely replace belts, might be worth it for me to do that.

#21 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:57 AM

That first (long) 410 is made in Japan. There are two variations of it. One has a captive AC cord and one has a plug-in wall-wart. I used to own both varieties.


I had the captive AC cord model....my first (and only) cassette recorder. Man, I can't believe I let that stuff go....for probably nothing, and mint.


I did the same thing a while back but I recently picked up another one of the captive cord models which seems to be the more common configuration. It looks like a standard portable recorder case, and not specific to the 410. I'm sure if opened it up and determined who made it, we could probably determine if it has an OEM sibling.

Edited by Bryan, Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:59 AM.


#22 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:56 PM

Back in '85 when I got my first Atari (130XE), I too, started with a taped drive, which I bought at Toys R Us, IIRC, it looked suspiciously like that XC12 recorder. I don't recall the brand, it had palm trees as the logo, and was a slightly darker and "purpler" grey to the standard XE grey color. But Since seeing the XC12, I wonder if the company that made them for Atari, sold them under their own label in the U.S. through Toys R Us, since, IIRC, these XE taped drives weren't released in the U.S. by Atari.

#23 Almost Rice OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:31 PM

Back in '85 when I got my first Atari (130XE), I too, started with a taped drive, which I bought at Toys R Us, IIRC, it looked suspiciously like that XC12 recorder. I don't recall the brand, it had palm trees as the logo, and was a slightly darker and "purpler" grey to the standard XE grey color. But Since seeing the XC12, I wonder if the company that made them for Atari, sold them under their own label in the U.S. through Toys R Us, since, IIRC, these XE taped drives weren't released in the U.S. by Atari.


I have a Taihaho drive that fits your description. I bought it at TRU also.
photo 1(3).JPG photo 2(3).JPG

#24 wood_jl OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:57 AM

Back in '85 when I got my first Atari (130XE), I too, started with a taped drive, which I bought at Toys R Us, IIRC, it looked suspiciously like that XC12 recorder. I don't recall the brand, it had palm trees as the logo, and was a slightly darker and "purpler" grey to the standard XE grey color. But Since seeing the XC12, I wonder if the company that made them for Atari, sold them under their own label in the U.S. through Toys R Us, since, IIRC, these XE taped drives weren't released in the U.S. by Atari.


I have a Taihaho drive that fits your description. I bought it at TRU also.
photo 1(3).JPG photo 2(3).JPG


Wow, that's a rarity! Thanks for posting; I was unaware there was such a thing as 3rd party cassette drives for A8. We tend to forget how expensive disk drives and even cassette drives were back then, meaning room in the market for undersellers.

Does anybody know how much the cassette recorders were at retail, back in the day? For some reason I am thinking that in the U.S., it was $200 for a 410 and fell to $100 for the 1010 by the time it came out. Just guessing, mind you.

I was saving for a $600 810 drive at the Air Force BX when the 1050 came out at $340, which was my first disk drive, but I can't recall how much the 410 was because I was too young to have paid for it myself.

#25 Rybags OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:09 AM

I doubt it was $100 for a 1010 at release in the US. I paid $160 for my one which is an utter ripoff but our prices were typically just under double the US price.

In comparison, the Commodore tape drive was something like 40 or 50 bucks at the same time.




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