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Unauthorized copies of ColecoVision homebrew games


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#51 retroillucid OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:26 AM

Secondly, as buyer of most of these games (and I can prove it) shouldn't I be able to play them on the new flash cart if I decide to purchase it? Why not offer digital versions with a hidden signature?

It is in no way right to profit from someone else's work.

AX


Just do like me, I've dump all homebrews for playing with emu/Multicart
And I never open any of them... simply by the edges of connectors

But hey! ... I'm keeping them for myself and will NOT share/sell them

So, If you want the rom of the game you've buy, simply dump it by yourself
and for sure, you'll not hurt the sales

Penguin Land is available in his archive, and I've not sold all the copies I've to sell.... :|

#52 newcoleco OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:29 AM

Penguin Land is available in his archive, and I've not sold all the copies I've to sell.... :|

Maybe because the game was released in cartridges long time ago... just saying...

#53 youki OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:30 AM

Secondly, as buyer of most of these games (and I can prove it) shouldn't I be able to play them on the new flash cart if I decide to purchase it? Why not offer digital versions with a hidden signature?

It is in no way right to profit from someone else's work.

AX


Just do like me, I've dump all homebrews for playing with emu/Multicart
And I never open any of them... simply by the edges of connectors

But hey! ... I'm keeping them for myself and will NOT share/sell them

So, If you want the rom of the game you've buy, simply dump it by yourself
and for sure, you'll not hurt the sales

Penguin Land is available in his archive, and I've not sold all the copies I've to sell.... :|


I think i saw also Kobashi in his list , and i thought you didn't released it yet? How it is possible?

#54 pboland OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:32 AM

...and people over the 7800 forum (in a demonstration of total lack of creativity or absolute reverence to the ColecoVision scene) strongly considering to use the "Super Game Module" name with their module (which by the way I am part of the team).

Really???? You know, part of the reason I wanted the "Super Game Module" name on the 7800 module as well is because you were part of it. I saw it as paying homage to you and the work you are doing for both the ColecoVision and the 7800. Instead, I'm said to have no "reverence to the ColecoVision scene" and told I have a "lack of creativity". I didn't realize that the act of you naming your game enhancing device for the ColecoVision the "Super Game Module" was an act of creativity.

I'm really sorry that you and others are having your stuff stolen (and I do hope you guys get it resolved) but, to put down an entire group of people just because you are in a bad mood doesn't seem right to me.

#55 VectorGamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:34 AM

So, what can we do? Maybe not much except talking with David at first.


It seems like the other way around - he should have talked to you guys first before doing anything...

#56 newcoleco OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:43 AM


So, what can we do? Maybe not much except talking with David at first.


It seems like the other way around - he should have talked to you guys first before doing anything...

In an ideal situation, yes. But now, at this moment of the story, someone need to talk with him.

I agree to : "to put down an entire group of people just because you are in a bad mood doesn't seem right to me."

#57 goldenegg OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:49 AM

I don't defend David's action but I suppose what he wanted to do is preserving all the roms by doing a cd-rom and sell copies at a fair price for the job of collecting and putting up all these rom files, instructions and more.


I have no problem at all with people wanting to preserve games. It's my belief that those ROMs should be distributed free. I don't believe anyone has a right to charge for games they had no hand in creating. He's also not charging in order to put the content on a CD and ship it, as the purchaser simply gets a ZIP file sent to them by e-mail.

If he wanted to simply charge for the screenshots and manuals he put together for the new flash cart, that would have been fine. Including the ROMs in that package, which he is also charging money for, completely changes the situation for me. I should note that these feelings are regardless of whether or not homebrew is included.

The other issue of having the homebrew available for public download, was one he handled poorly. If he wanted to 'preserve' the homebrew by placing it on his site, the least he could have done was to contact the original developers and get their permission.

#58 retroillucid OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:50 AM

Penguin Land is available in his archive, and I've not sold all the copies I've to sell.... :|

Maybe because the game was released in cartridges long time ago... just saying...


It is possible, but strangely, he doesn't have the Lode Runner....

The fact is, I'm paying programmer to make our games, pay for the boxes/label/manuals , PCBs/eprom and the cartridge shell
alot of money is invested in each of our release
If we don't sell enough, we actually loose money
And thats why I'm so upset

Maybe I could sell some bootlegs of his Intv games? (just kidding)

#59 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:54 AM

...and people over the 7800 forum (in a demonstration of total lack of creativity or absolute reverence to the ColecoVision scene) strongly considering to use the "Super Game Module" name with their module (which by the way I am part of the team).

Really???? You know, part of the reason I wanted the "Super Game Module" name on the 7800 module as well is because you were part of it. I saw it as paying homage to you and the work you are doing for both the ColecoVision and the 7800. Instead, I'm said to have no "reverence to the ColecoVision scene" and told I have a "lack of creativity". I didn't realize that the act of you naming your game enhancing device for the ColecoVision the "Super Game Module" was an act of creativity.

I'm really sorry that you and others are having your stuff stolen (and I do hope you guys get it resolved) but, to put down an entire group of people just because you are in a bad mood doesn't seem right to me.


Well, you guys can name it whatever you want, as I don't plan on using the name anymore.

Over...

#60 newcoleco OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:01 AM

It is possible, but strangely, he doesn't have the Lode Runner....

True, but there was also way less Lode Runner cartridges than Penguin Land ones, mostly because only members of CCJVQ was able to get a Lode Runner cartridge.

#61 Yurkie OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:02 AM

It is unfortunate that this thread wasn't deleted yesterday. I am guessing that all this thread ultimately accomplished was that the offender (guy selling this SD packet) has made a lot of money.

#62 potatohead OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:04 AM

"...order to put the content on a CD and ship it, as the purchaser simply gets a ZIP file sent to them by e-mail."

Seriously?

That's raw exploitation right there. Deffo not cool at all. When I posted before, I thought it was an actual physical delivery, where there was some labor or materials, or something. It isn't ok, but reading that makes something shitty, worse!! :x :x

I think a case can be made for some small amount to cover media, shipping, etc... And I mean small, like small enough that it's actually a labor of love to preserve things. It's wrong of course, but likely tolerated as so many of those things currently are. We've all seen that happen, and we've all seen the price set to just get it done with no real profit, or even a small loss.

Of course, a conversation about that, with the people that authored the stuff can and absolutely should happen. It's not hard either. There aren't exactly a ton of Coleco Vision capable authors, meaning this clown is pissing in a damn small pool, and should really know better.

The rip off here is the $20 is nearly all margin! How about cutting the authors in, given there is so damn much being made? -->And that's by percentage, not absolute amount, though who knows at that price?

Newcoleco has a great point on the longer term and large scope DMCA / Copyright implications, and that is what chaps my ass on this the rest of the way!! A lot of fun is tolerated in this hobby. Only bad things can happen from conflicts like this, meaning we all need to respect the hobby, get along, and have our fun being good humans.

Good luck guys. This just isn't ok at all. Somebody needs to take that guy out back for a long conversation, up close, personal style. I'm not advocating violence, of course. That's not my nature. A little fear though? Yeah, do it.

#63 pboland OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:15 AM

...and people over the 7800 forum (in a demonstration of total lack of creativity or absolute reverence to the ColecoVision scene) strongly considering to use the "Super Game Module" name with their module (which by the way I am part of the team).

Really???? You know, part of the reason I wanted the "Super Game Module" name on the 7800 module as well is because you were part of it. I saw it as paying homage to you and the work you are doing for both the ColecoVision and the 7800. Instead, I'm said to have no "reverence to the ColecoVision scene" and told I have a "lack of creativity". I didn't realize that the act of you naming your game enhancing device for the ColecoVision the "Super Game Module" was an act of creativity.

I'm really sorry that you and others are having your stuff stolen (and I do hope you guys get it resolved) but, to put down an entire group of people just because you are in a bad mood doesn't seem right to me.


Well, you guys can name it whatever you want, as I don't plan on using the name anymore.

Over...

So...I guess you stand by your earlier insult? Well, I was actually thinking about getting one or both of them but, not now. You really know how to make friends. Good luck!

Done with you...

Edited by pboland, Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:23 AM.


#64 the.golden.ax OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:34 AM

...and people over the 7800 forum (in a demonstration of total lack of creativity or absolute reverence to the ColecoVision scene) strongly considering to use the "Super Game Module" name with their module (which by the way I am part of the team).

Really???? You know, part of the reason I wanted the "Super Game Module" name on the 7800 module as well is because you were part of it. I saw it as paying homage to you and the work you are doing for both the ColecoVision and the 7800. Instead, I'm said to have no "reverence to the ColecoVision scene" and told I have a "lack of creativity". I didn't realize that the act of you naming your game enhancing device for the ColecoVision the "Super Game Module" was an act of creativity.

I'm really sorry that you and others are having your stuff stolen (and I do hope you guys get it resolved) but, to put down an entire group of people just because you are in a bad mood doesn't seem right to me.


Well, you guys can name it whatever you want, as I don't plan on using the name anymore.

Over...

So...I guess you stand by your earlier insult? Well, I was actually thinking about getting one or both of them but, not now. You really know how to make friends. Good luck!

Done with you...


This is the kind of decisive crap that SHOULD NOT occur as a result of a singular trouble maker (if found guilty). Come on guys someone has to be better than this. Be an example. We have seen enough of this in the Jaguar forums to last a lifetime.


AX

#65 Yurkie OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:38 AM

Ax is right. I am sure Opcode is deeply hurt and feels betrayed and with emotions running high, is making statements that he will later regret.

Thanks AX +1

#66 newcoleco OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:15 AM

Maybe it will be taken badly, or you may probably think that I'm an old man rambling, but this situation reminds me part of my story as an homebrewer.

As a reply to John Dondzila after the first DACMAN cartridges was released, I did a mistake. A misunderstanding due to an impulsive comment from my part did lead to an interuption of the communication between us. After I've realised what John Dondzila was trying to say to me the first time regarding the situation, and the subject was about "what is the homebrew scene", I've talked back to him, being sorry to not understand him the first time. After that, the collaboration between us did lead to release a few other games like bustin-out and amazing snake. So, not only for me, it was beneficial to acknowledge that I was reacting on the impulsion of the moment.

It's really easy to offend people or make them think that you are offended when you was just expecting something else.

I'm not a wise man, but I think I became a better person since then... and I continue to learn.

And I'm sorry if someone think that I'm interfering in something that's not my business, it wasn't my intention to cause you trouble.

And, to return to the subject, my ROMs are public domain, so I don't care if you collect them, at least enjoy playing them instead of just collecting them. ;-)

Edited by newcoleco, Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:20 AM.


#67 NIAD OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:22 AM

Secondly, as buyer of most of these games (and I can prove it) shouldn't I be able to play them on the new flash cart if I decide to purchase it? Why not offer digital versions with a hidden signature?

It is in no way right to profit from someone else's work.

AX


Just do like me, I've dump all homebrews for playing with emu/Multicart
And I never open any of them... simply by the edges of connectors

But hey! ... I'm keeping them for myself and will NOT share/sell them

So, If you want the rom of the game you've buy, simply dump it by yourself
and for sure, you'll not hurt the sales

Penguin Land is available in his archive, and I've not sold all the copies I've to sell.... :|


I think i saw also Kobashi in his list , and i thought you didn't released it yet? How it is possible?


You can download a demo of Kobashi from Dvik & JoyRex's website as well as a demo of Burnin Rubber! Also, Philip Klaus Krause always makes available rom images demos of his in progress games as has Eduardo and many other homebrewers over the years. The Gulkave rom image is actually a non-playable demo that has been available for a good number of years and I'm pretty sure it's in the GoodROM and TOSEC listings. I've even seen a MAJOR ColecoVision site that has available work-in-progress rom images of Mr. Do!'s Wild Ride and Pacar.

I whole-heartedly hope that David is not placing FINISHED/COPYRIGHTED homebrew games in this compilation and I have not seen any links to said games on his main page, the only refernce to them is in the listing of the compilation he provides and HOPEFULLY this was just a terrible mistake/oversight on his part.

Like Daniel mentioned in his first post in this thread, there is a very fine line that all you homebrewers will have to walk concerning this issue due to the fact that you are porting or re-creating from scratch games that were developed for other systems and are copyrighted by their creators. I would HATE to see this get into the wrong person's hands and they take issue with it and force all of you to stop production and selling OF THESE TREMENDOUS COLECOVISION GAMES!!

I played a large part in the 80's and 90's with keeping the ADAM Computer alive and supported and I can tell you first hand that there were some knock down drag out battles between the User Groups, Mail-Order Vendors, Developers, etc. that played a large part in people just throwing up their arms in disgust and saying " F#*K THIS!, I don't need it " and moving onto other interests. PLEASE don't let this happen. Keep things as low key and within the smallest group of people possible and the issue should be more easily resolved... the more people that want to throw their two cents in, the more confusing and possibly infuriating things can become.

So to wrap... J.F, Luc, Eduardo, Daniel, and the many others that are driving the CV Homebrew scene, I want to THANK YOU for what you have been able to accomplish over the years and I am looking forward to many more years of following your work (hopefully it is still fun and exciting for you and not turning into actual work!).

Jim/NIAD

#68 5-11under ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:28 AM

Most of my ROM files have been removed from the site, so progress is being made.

#69 newcoleco OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:32 AM

So to wrap... J.F, Luc, Eduardo, Daniel, and the many others that are driving the CV Homebrew scene, I want to THANK YOU for what you have been able to accomplish over the years and I am looking forward to many more years of following your work (hopefully it is still fun and exciting for you and not turning into actual work!).

Yes, we did just great, and the hobby continues to do well... even more since it looks like a not dead market now with all the new games in boxes that looks like the Coleco scene never stopped.

I want to mention that Marcel de Kogel and John Dondzila gave me the chance to express myself for the first time in the ColecoVision scene. Without their work, I may never have released all these games. So, thank you guys! and let's have a talk anytime to remember how it started in the late 90s.

Edited by newcoleco, Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:43 AM.


#70 pboland OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:58 AM

This is the kind of decisive crap that SHOULD NOT occur as a result of a singular trouble maker (if found guilty). Come on guys someone has to be better than this. Be an example. We have seen enough of this in the Jaguar forums to last a lifetime.


Ax is right. I am sure Opcode is deeply hurt and feels betrayed and with emotions running high, is making statements that he will later regret.

Thanks AX +1

I understand where you guys are coming from but, Opcode is not the only one who has had something he worked on and then found someone else selling it.

I had somewhat of a similar thing happen to me. In that case, I tried to be such a great "example" on how to handle that event that no one here even knows what I'm talking about. Yurkie, I think you know what I'm talking about as I was talking to you during that time.

I didn't come on this forum to make the public issue of it and I didn't insult a whole group of people just because of the bad taste I had with the community at that time. Heck, I didn't even insult the people involved! They apologize and we moved on. To this day I have a great respect for those individuals involved.

So, what did "being an example" at that time get me? A group of people who didn't even know what happened and now want me to be an "example".

That shows you just how effective being the "example" really is.


As a reply to John Dondzila after the first DACMAN cartridges was released, I did a mistake. A misunderstanding due to an impulsive comment from my part did lead to an interuption of the communication between us. After I've realised what John Dondzila was trying to say to me the first time regarding the situation, and the subject was about "what is the homebrew scene", I've talked back to him, being sorry to not understand him the first time. After that, the collaboration between us did lead to release a few other games like bustin-out and amazing snake. So, not only for me, it was beneficial to acknowledge that I was reacting on the impulsion of the moment.

Good example but there is one problem with it. You stated:

I've talked back to him, being sorry to not understand him the first time.


Unfortunately, Opcode didn't say he was sorry, Instead he took his ball and went home. To coin a phrase.
When that happens, we will be good.

Edited by pboland, Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:05 PM.


#71 tep392 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:01 PM

and people over the 7800 forum (in a demonstration of total lack of creativity or absolute reverence to the ColecoVision scene) strongly considering to use the "Super Game Module" name with their module (which by the way I am part of the team).


Or, more than likely, a lack of familiarity with the ColecoVision scene.

#72 newcoleco OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:04 PM

Unfortunately, Opcode didn't say he was sorry, Instead he took his ball and went home. To coin a phrase.
When that happens, we will be good.

In my example I didn't mention the period of time for the communication break between me and John Dondzila. It took me more than a few hours to understand and be sorry because at first I was very angry... I needed time to calm down.

#73 Ikrananka OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:14 PM

I'll ask our webmaster to put down temporaly the CollectorVision Website

J-F, looks like the rom links have been removed and the SD package collection listing now only inlcudes manuals and images - no roms at all. I sincerely hope that you now feel able to continue publishing and that the Collectorvision site will be back up soon.

#74 Yurkie OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:23 PM

J-F, looks like the rom links have been removed and the SD package collection listing now only inlcudes manuals and images - no roms at all. I sincerely hope that you now feel able to continue publishing and that the Collectorvision site will be back up soon.


I just clicked the what's included link on the page and it looks like it is just manuals and screenshots now, no roms are included in the package at all. Not even the original released games.

#75 newcoleco OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:36 PM

J-F, looks like the rom links have been removed and the SD package collection listing now only inlcudes manuals and images - no roms at all. I sincerely hope that you now feel able to continue publishing and that the Collectorvision site will be back up soon.

My rom files are gone too... I don't know if I'm supposed to be happy or sad about it.

I presume someone talked with him which I hope the case is now closed.

I think that real Coleco fans will support us regardless of these cd-roms or web sites giving away our rom files. I'm sure someone will prove me wrong about this but we are still selling cartridges so we still have the support of the fans. So, I don't think about losing money but having people enjoy games I'm programming, which reflect more the hobby I want to do regarding ColecoVision games. It's maybe a more idealistic than realistic view, but it's what I think.




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