Druid 2 title screen

[emkay]

 

err if this picture such such an easy convert how come no bugger has actually posted it converted then?

 

 

 

I know, you're here to start splitting the community. That's why I ignore your provocations.

 

As I wrote, it is no problem to convert it to the A8. But it is a problem to use limited software that has gone even more bugful lately. If you don't get money by doing stuff, you have to have fun to do this.... at least ... , but the fun is gone....

[emkay]

Which seems to me quite the use of intelligence so can you please can the anti-C64 fanboi rants?

 

 

It's more the use of given logics than intelligence.

 

Das Problem ist, dass ich dir in englisch nicht genau verständlich machen kann, dass die Logik der Grafikdarstellung einfacher durch Softwareprogrammierung umgesetzt werden kann. Das Raster von 40x25 und die Zusammenhänge der Farbzellen, lassen sich in einfachen Sortierfolgen programmieren.

 

Beim Atari funktioniert das nur bis zu 5 Farben pro Zeile, in der Auflösung von 160x192 (188x240) . Sowie es um Registeränderungen pro Zeile, oder um Anpassungen der Player Missile Grafik geht, werden die Routinen sehr viel komplexer, als 16 Farben in Farbzellen umzurechnen.

Aber, wenigstens kann man mit dem Atari die Farben, dank der komplexen Anpassungen, vermehren.

 

 

 

C64 has fixed cells of 40x25 to add the 16 colours with fixed rules to any picture. So it is easier to import 16 colour based graphics to the C64...

For the Atari those rules would only allow 5 colours. To reach more colours per scanline, the software has to get extremely more complex.

 

In theory it shows already more intelligence, to see pictures on the A8 with 6 colours per scanline, than 16 colours per scanline on the C64.

 

Got it?

[STE'86]

oooohhh right you mean you cant?

 

see thats where people like me who know that will be tough to convert get confused when u say "yes it's easy" but then go on to say "but i can't do it" people are bound to misunderstand.

 

from now on i will know that "yes it's easy" translates to "i am talking total crap again"

 

Steve

[emkay]

 

from now on i will know that "yes it's easy" translates to "i am talking total crap again"

 

 

 

 

Which explains your way of thinking and why it always ends in provocations.

That's why this is my last post addressed to you.

[dwhyte]

 

 

Come on now, you two. Quit your damn bickering... ಠ_ಠ

Edited September 30, 2010 by dwhyte

[Irgendwer]

"OK guys, this ain't funny! Who hit me with the mud gun?"

 

Tomorrow I'll post the tutorial video part 1 for the "Druid 2" image. Sorry for the delay, but contrary to other posters here I have a life...

[Divya16]

 

At 1st you have to lose all intelligence , to count 16 colours as 64 colours.

 

Oh dear.....Here we go again......

 

And anyway C-64 has some methods for exploiting display behavior to get around the limited palette to an often impressive extent:

 

http://www.studiostyle.sk/dmagic/gallery/gfxmodes.htm

 

Which seems to me quite the use of intelligence so can you please can the anti-C64 fanboi rants?

 

That would be comparing Apples and Oranges. The image mentioned in this thread is non-dithered and non-interlaced so the comparison should be with an A8 non-dithered non-interlaced image.

[spookt]

"OK guys, this ain't funny! Who hit me with the mud gun?"

 

Tomorrow I'll post the tutorial video part 1 for the "Druid 2" image. Sorry for the delay, but contrary to other posters here I have a life...

 

Yes that's my problem too. Appreciate the effort you're making.

[frogstar_robot]

That would be comparing Apples and Oranges. The image mentioned in this thread is non-dithered and non-interlaced so the comparison should be with an A8 non-dithered non-interlaced image.

 

I was not making a strictly technical point. Once emkay and/or a few others start the C-64 bashing, threads like this tend to degenerate into an 80s "my-computer-is-better-than-yours" slugfest. Those can be fun to watch but I am more interested in the original premise of the thread: what is the best way to port the picture in question to the A8? Comparing and contrasting with the C-64 for the purpose of sussing out that method serves the discussion. Questioning the intelligence of C-64 graphicians and coders and prodding them to demonstrate one's A8 manliness does not.

Edited September 30, 2010 by frogstar_robot

[carmel_andrews]

Heaven...Are you possibly thinking of or considering a conversion of C64 druid two perhaps....if so, I wish you the best of luck (now that you have the title screen sorted out)

[emkay]

 

I was not making a strictly technical point. Once emkay and/or a few others start the C-64 bashing,

 

 

Unbelievable. Just telling facts is to bash C64 ?

 

 

 

threads like this tend to degenerate into an 80s "my-computer-is-better-than-yours" slugfest.

 

 

Tell me one post, where I wrote that the A8 is better at all. I always told where both systems have their advantages AND their disadvantages.

The real problem here is in the fact that for C64 guys the C64 IS the better machine, so they feel bashed when writing a true word about it.

 

 

Those can be fun to watch but I am more interested in the original premise of the thread: what is the best way to port the picture in question to the A8? Comparing and contrasting with the C-64 for the purpose of sussing out that method serves the discussion. Questioning the intelligence of C-64 graphicians and coders and prodding them to demonstrate one's A8 manliness does not.

 

Actually, the best way is a fully working PC tool for importing the picture and to finish the imported graphics up for all A8 enhancements. This "the easiest way" is not possible yet. Except, you want to lose all hair by importing a picture, bordering with all software limits and bugs, that do not appear on the real machine.

[analmux]

...

threads like this tend to degenerate into an 80s "my-computer-is-better-than-yours" slugfest.

Tell me one post, where I wrote that the A8 is better at all....

 

He didn't mention you. He mentioned the guy who is still stuck in the year 1386

Edited September 30, 2010 by analmux

[TMR]

...

threads like this tend to degenerate into an 80s "my-computer-is-better-than-yours" slugfest.

Tell me one post, where I wrote that the A8 is better at all....

 

He didn't mention you. He mentioned the guy who is still stuck in the year 1386

 

frogstar robot said "Once emkay and/or a few others start the C-64 bashing, threads like this tend to degenerate into an 80s "my-computer-is-better-than-yours" slugfest" so yes, emkay was mentioned by name.

 

And just for a bit of fun, an attempt at slowing the argument down a little; Ste said "i suggest that if you want to see REAL use of c64 colour you look at late 80s and early 90's c64 art" and emkay replied with "At 1st you have to lose all intelligence , to count 16 colours as 64 colours" (my emphasis in bold for both) so it looks like there's just been a little misunderstanding...

Edited September 30, 2010 by TMR

[carmel_andrews]

To try and steer the thread back to some semblance of the OP's query....Did Heaven get his title picture done or is someone actually doing it

[analmux]

frogstar robot said "Once emkay and/or a few others start the C-64 bashing, threads like this tend to degenerate into an 80s "my-computer-is-better-than-yours" slugfest" so yes, emkay was mentioned by name.

Yes, I see I overlooked the first part of the sentence (sorry for that ). But, really, the first part is just a conditional claim. Then C-64 bashing is not necessarily the same as saying "A8 is better". This being said, no part of the quoted sentence says that emkay himself says "my-computer-is-better-than-yours". "emkay saying something" is not the same as "threads tend to degenerate". Oh, and where did emkay start C-64 bashing?

 

 

And just for a bit of fun, an attempt at slowing the argument down a little; Ste said "i suggest that if you want to see REAL use of c64 colour you look at late 80s and early 90's c64 art" and emkay replied with "At 1st you have to lose all intelligence , to count 16 colours as 64 colours" (my emphasis in bold for both) so it looks like there's just been a little misunderstanding...

Suggesting emkay's comments are related to those STE comments this way could end up looking like there was a misunderstanding, but there's no clear point to defend that suggestion . To make this more clear: Someone mentioned C64 pictures with more resulting colours than 16, let's say 64 (or whatever number of) interlace / flicker colours. But then we should also compare to A8 interlace / flicker solutions. Then we're closer to 4096 colours instead.

 

 

So, sorry to say, but your comments seem a bit useless.

Edited September 30, 2010 by analmux

[spookt]

I really hope none of this puts Irgendwer off posting his tutorial as I for one am really looking forward to learning more about G2F.

[TMR]

frogstar robot said "Once emkay and/or a few others start the C-64 bashing, threads like this tend to degenerate into an 80s "my-computer-is-better-than-yours" slugfest" so yes, emkay was mentioned by name.

Yes, I see I overlooked the first part of the sentence (sorry for that ).

 

Then my job here is done, because i was just pointing out that mistake and all of this next bit...

 

But, really, the first part is just a conditional claim. Then C-64 bashing is not necessarily the same as saying "A8 is better". This being said, no part of the quoted sentence says that emkay himself says "my-computer-is-better-than-yours". "emkay saying something" is not the same as "threads tend to degenerate". Oh, and where did emkay start C-64 bashing?

 

...has nothing to do with me and i'll leave it to frogstar robot to answer.

 

And just for a bit of fun, an attempt at slowing the argument down a little; Ste said "i suggest that if you want to see REAL use of c64 colour you look at late 80s and early 90's c64 art" and emkay replied with "At 1st you have to lose all intelligence , to count 16 colours as 64 colours" (my emphasis in bold for both) so it looks like there's just been a little misunderstanding...

Suggesting emkay's comments are related to those STE comments this way could end up looking like there was a misunderstanding, but there's no clear point to defend that suggestion .

 

emkay quoted ste's post about "c64 colour" in his one about "64 colours" so there's a direct relationship (post #20 if you want to check). It's very difficult to not read a jump like that as a simple misunderstanding unless you're accusing him of being a troll and i'm not.

 

To make this more clear: Someone mentioned C64 pictures with more resulting colours than 16, let's say 64 (or whatever number of) interlace / flicker colours.

 

i checked but may have missed it, which post in this thread said that?

[TMR]

I really hope none of this puts Irgendwer off posting his tutorial as I for one am really looking forward to learning more about G2F.

 

i'm sure he will, hopefully he'll just consider it everyone else killing time until he's done! i'm interested too and will have to see if either of my work boxes can run G2F now. =-)

[frogstar_robot]

At 1st you have to lose all intelligence , to count 16 colours as 64 colours.

 

 

I was referring to the following dig that emkay made:

 

At 1st you have to lose all intelligence , to count 16 colours as 64 colours.

 

It is a dig because all of the Commodore coders know the strengths and limitations of the C64 hardware and many of the Atarians reading here know too. So when a C-64 graphician speaks of more than 16 colors in a picture it is understood that either something perceptual or some kind of display manipulation is how that is being done. Since we all basically understand this, questioning the intelligence of a 64 scener is nothing more than flamebait.

 

Again, what I'm advocating here is discussion of the best way to render C-64 style title screens on the A8 rather than trying to get the Infamous Vs. Thread started again.

 

If emkay can't leave off doing it, I would suggest the reasonable sort of C64 scener that is participating ignore him and the other usual suspects. Most of us don't lose sleep over what the C-64 does well.

[emkay]

If emkay can't leave off doing it, I would suggest the reasonable sort of C64 scener that is participating ignore him and the other usual suspects. Most of us don't lose sleep over what the C-64 does well.

 

?

 

I'm posting Atari related stuff in an Atari related forum. Why do people like you always turn the truth? Why do C64 people come to an Atari forum and put in that the C64 can do better here and there?

We don't need to ...bla bla bla..... , we need progress in creating software for the A8. Piesu is a good example of how the subversion of the C64 people works. It's called "friendly aquisition".

[Heaven/TQA]

why not coming back to the point? imho emkay was not c64 bashing while STE was not A8 bashing, too... or did I get it wrong?

 

I started this thread because the Druid pic does not look too c64 and in my opinion uses the c64 16 colors quite good and it is really my opinion... it does not look (in terms of colors) like a typical c64 pic... it could be looking good on A8, too with more fitting colors...

[Tezz]

I wasn't aware that there was such a need for g2f guides as I thought everyone was already up on it and making use of it for a long time. I can add to the support when Christian has posted his guides. I'm trying to spend all my free A8 time with MM for the moment although I did have a look at the Druid II pic last night in g2f and it doesn't seem to be too much of a problem. The new editing features that I requested a while back which were implemented several revisions ago have made the process much quicker for me now with the ability to select whether to edit the pmg, bitmap or both and whether to draw or delete rather than the toggle as it was previously.

[STE'86]

while u are at it get g2f to convert that:

 

 

i am interested to see what g2f will do to that with experienced user intervention. in it auto mode it makes a right hash of it

 

Steve

[dwhyte]

while u are at it get g2f to convert that:

 

 

i am interested to see what g2f will do to that with experienced user intervention. in it auto mode it makes a right hash of it

 

Steve

 

Great stuff, STE. Is there a site where I can download your C64 art? Preferably in C64 format...

[oky2000]

 

At 1st you have to lose all intelligence , to count 16 colours as 64 colours.

 

Oh dear.....Here we go again......

 

And anyway C-64 has some methods for exploiting display behavior to get around the limited palette to an often impressive extent:

 

http://www.studiostyle.sk/dmagic/gallery/gfxmodes.htm

 

Which seems to me quite the use of intelligence so can you please can the anti-C64 fanboi rants?

 

That would be comparing Apples and Oranges. The image mentioned in this thread is non-dithered and non-interlaced so the comparison should be with an A8 non-dithered non-interlaced image.

 

Not really, if you are going to bugger about using all your DLI bandwidth, player AND missile graphics to display an image what difference does it make what CPU hogging screen mode you use on the C64 to exceed the design compromises.

 

Time and again it's the same argument. A8 has shit colour resolution, C64 has shit palette available. Both situations can be improved by maxing out your CPU and using a bit of your IQ whilst sitting in front of your ASM package on either, simple as that really. Getting incredibly dull now...like the bum on the street blaming society for his lack of wealth/expensive possessions blah blah.

 

@emkay....true intelligence is understanding how EVERY machine works and the LIMITATIONS of ALL of them