Marius Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Hi. I have an old Assembler Editor cartridge (atari, brown, CXL4003) When I assemble a source code, the only thing it tells me is "EDIT" after it is done. Edit is usual prompt, so I think: no errors. Great. I have downloaded Assembler Editor ROM file from somewhere (Atarimania I think, but I'm not sure) It works the same, except for one thing. When it is finished it tells me: 0 Errors Edit. That "0 errors" message does not show up on my original cart version. So my question is now: Is this downloaded ROM version newer or older? Is it better? I read somewhere that there were several bugs in the original Assembler Editor. So I'm very curious if these bugs are fixed in the version I have now downloaded. Any information is appreciated. Thanks Marius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) Hi. I have an old Assembler Editor cartridge (atari, brown, CXL4003) When I assemble a source code, the only thing it tells me is "EDIT" after it is done. Edit is usual prompt, so I think: no errors. Great. I have downloaded Assembler Editor ROM file from somewhere (Atarimania I think, but I'm not sure) It works the same, except for one thing. When it is finished it tells me: 0 Errors Edit. That "0 errors" message does not show up on my original cart version. So my question is now: Is this downloaded ROM version newer or older? Is it better? I read somewhere that there were several bugs in the original Assembler Editor. So I'm very curious if these bugs are fixed in the version I have now downloaded. Any information is appreciated. Thanks Marius I checked atarimania. It has two versions German and English. Both have identical CRC16, so both are same. And my ASM ED cart is a CXL4003 also. I would guess your cart without the '0 ERRORS' is more original. I don't believe there's anything wrong with it, but I've never heard of a buggy version. My CXL4003 also gives '0 ERRORS'. Both English and German from Atarimania give '0 ERRORS'. Edited February 26, 2011 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I can't recall any version that gave an error count. Maybe it's a hack. But there is an "Editor Assembler" version that I believe is less common, maybe that's it. Or maybe they're just the same and someone changed the name. AsmEd has a few annoying bugs in the command-line. Such as, in DEBUG it will spit out an error if a command you enter happens to match a 6502 instruction. e.g. try something such as DEC or LDA - most D or L commands you need no space but with those you'll need a space. Maybe it got fixed in some other version or hack. Also, I think if a LOAD operation fails (or is it SAVE ?) from EDIT, it will drop you into DEBUG for no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) My CXL4003 comes up with 0 ERRORS EDIT No clue if different versions exist. I have a few carts laying around but could only find one right now. Don't know if the others are different. edit: forgot I just got one from "analmux" which is still within reach. Same cart, same label and also displays "0 ERRORS EDIT" Edited February 27, 2011 by Fox-1 / mnx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 If someone can explain me how to read out the two rom chips on such a cart I could post them here. Is this 4KB in each eprom? Can I simply put them in my eprom burner (reader) and read them out? And how to make one rom? Which one is the top (0000 - 1fff) and whcin one is the bottom (2000-4fff) Then you could try it out. Greetz M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) You can just save the ROM itself using DOS - $A000 to $BFFF. Don't use the Assembler's SAVE, it will probably break it up into lots of small segments. Once you get the DOS BSaved file, all you need to do is strip the first 6 bytes off. Edited February 27, 2011 by Rybags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 You can just save the ROM itself using DOS - $A000 to $BFFF. Don't use the Assembler's SAVE, it will probably break it up into lots of small segments. Once you get the DOS BSaved file, all you need to do is strip the first 6 bytes off. Thanks I did that (see attachment ). This version does not show the 0 errors message. I really like to know: is this a newer or older version. I will try to reproduce the bugs you wrote. Another thing: It would be handy if that debugger tool did exist without the assembler. Is there a way of rip it apart from Assembler Editor and put it somewhere around $7800 in memory? that would be a good place (since Mac/65 diskversion uses $8000 and up) Last question: now I had to write a little tool that stripped off the first 6 bytes. It was written in less than a minute, but ok... I was wondering if there is already a tool for that. I'm interested in your ideas about this 'strange' version of the Assembler Editor. The other one I added is the one I downloaded from Atarimania (the one that gives the 0 errors result) -> Greetz M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Such as, in DEBUG it will spit out an error if a command you enter happens to match a 6502 instruction. e.g. try something such as DEC or LDA - most D or L commands you need no space but with those you'll need a space. I don't completely understand what you mean. Why should I type LDA or DEC at all in the debugger? Or do you mean in the mini-assembler? I can not reproduce the problem (yet). Sorry if I sound a bit 'stupid' here hehe. Thanks M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Try moving the ASMED code down into $6000-$7FFF using the ASMED cart itself. Boot with DOS, go to DEBUG and enter: M6000<A000,BFFF This puts a copy of the cart in $6000. Now, you can: SAVE#D1:ASMED.OBJ<6000,7FFF from the editor. This file can be loaded and examined in memory. Pop the other version of ASMED into your machine, load the saved file, and you can compare the two versions with V6000<A000,BFFF in DEBUG. They are very different at the binary level, so they must have re-compiled the code. Not a hack, then... I'm pretty sure that you cannot pry DEBUG out of the cart - there are debugging programs like DDT and BUG-65, or the OMNIMON OS. Bob You can just save the ROM itself using DOS - $A000 to $BFFF. Don't use the Assembler's SAVE, it will probably break it up into lots of small segments. Once you get the DOS BSaved file, all you need to do is strip the first 6 bytes off. Thanks I did that (see attachment ). This version does not show the 0 errors message. I really like to know: is this a newer or older version. I will try to reproduce the bugs you wrote. Another thing: It would be handy if that debugger tool did exist without the assembler. Is there a way of rip it apart from Assembler Editor and put it somewhere around $7800 in memory? that would be a good place (since Mac/65 diskversion uses $8000 and up) Last question: now I had to write a little tool that stripped off the first 6 bytes. It was written in less than a minute, but ok... I was wondering if there is already a tool for that. I'm interested in your ideas about this 'strange' version of the Assembler Editor. The other one I added is the one I downloaded from Atarimania (the one that gives the 0 errors result) -> Greetz M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 there are debugging programs like DDT and BUG-65, or the OMNIMON OS. I'm searching for ages for DDT on disk. Do you have it? That would be great! Marius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slor Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I can't recall any version that gave an error count. Maybe it's a hack. But there is an "Editor Assembler" version that I believe is less common, maybe that's it. Or maybe they're just the same and someone changed the name. FYI - I have both the Editor Assembler (no catalog #) and Assembler Editor (CXL4003) original carts. Here are the diffs between mine: EA: - Does NOT show error count - 2 chips: CO14503A-03 (1980) and CO12403A-05 (1982) AE: - DOES show error count - 1 chip: CO60303A-29 (1980) To me, that would indicate that the one without the error count might be newer than one with, the opposite of what I was thinking before I opened them up. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Could you do a dump of both and upload? No fancy EPROM reading stuff needed, you can just SAVE to a file over SIO2PC. SAVE #D:ASMED.OBJ<A000,BFFF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) there are debugging programs like DDT and BUG-65, or the OMNIMON OS. I'm searching for ages for DDT on disk. Do you have it? That would be great! Marius I liked/like Debug+ from issue 39 of ANALOG. Here it is with the commands: * address set D toggle display from disassembly to Hex characters Q quit to DOS, have to hit RESET to clear the screen G go at address eg. G 600 T trace program. (S)low,(F)ast,(O)one step at a time, OPTION for next step, OPTION + ESC to exit C change one byte of RAM N change status register value N,V, , B, D, I, Z, C (change the bits in one byte) L load a binary file, be sure it doesn't step on Debug+ ($A100 - $C0FF) R display registers B set/reset break point eg. B1,4000 S save binary file F find a string - scroll up in memory = scroll down in memory Debug+ loads at $A100 - $C0FF and uses $BE00 - $C0FF as screen memory, so you can't step on these locations CNTRL/ESC leaves a prg. that is running (you went into the program with the G command) DEBUGPL.ZIP Edited March 1, 2011 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slor Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Could you do a dump of both and upload? No fancy EPROM reading stuff needed, you can just SAVE to a file over SIO2PC. SAVE #D:ASMED.OBJ<A000,BFFF ROM dumps are attached. Interestingly enough, the manual that came with my AE cart (the one that prints the errors output) does not show the errors output in the manual samples. The manual is dated 1981. James asms.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Cool. Maybe they gave it some sort of mid-life upgrade. I doubt they'd have improved the speed though, although with a non-tokenised Assembler on our old 6502, you can't really expect much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Cool. Maybe they gave it some sort of mid-life upgrade. I doubt they'd have improved the speed though, although with a non-tokenised Assembler on our old 6502, you can't really expect much. Hi Rybags, Did you see my question where I ask if you could be more specific about the 'bugs'... I can not reproduce the problems, because I don't know where to type DEC or LDA in debug mode. If the bugs can not be reproduced on my cart(s) they might be fixed versions? I'm very interested in that! I hope you can describe the steps here! Thanks a lot anyway!! Marius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Where? Debug is a command-line type utility. D is Display Memory command, L is List (Disassemble). The "bug" relates to the debugger not recognising some commands if they also happen to match a valid 6502 instruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slor Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I can't recall any version that gave an error count. Maybe it's a hack. But there is an "Editor Assembler" version that I believe is less common, maybe that's it. Or maybe they're just the same and someone changed the name. FYI - I have both the Editor Assembler (no catalog #) and Assembler Editor (CXL4003) original carts. Here are the diffs between mine: EA: - Does NOT show error count - 2 chips: CO14503A-03 (1980) and CO12403A-05 (1982) AE: - DOES show error count - 1 chip: CO60303A-29 (1980) To me, that would indicate that the one without the error count might be newer than one with, the opposite of what I was thinking before I opened them up. James So, I tried out my spare AE cart this morning, and this is what I found: - Label differs from first AE cart only by brown being a darker shade - Does NOT show error count - 2 chips: CO14503-03 and CO12403-03 (no dates) - ROM dump exactly matches my EA cart Unfortunately, that just adds to my confusion about which revision came first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I've not had chance to give them a decent look over, but I'd guess the one that reports # of errors would be later. That was one of the big annoyances of the AsmEd - you'd have to specify NOLIST so that you'd at least find out if errors were present if you went away during Assembly. At least with an error count message, you could be guaranteed to know something's wrong regardless of how you do the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 So, I tried out my spare AE cart this morning, and this is what I found: - Label differs from first AE cart only by brown being a darker shade - Does NOT show error count - 2 chips: CO14503-03 and CO12403-03 (no dates) - ROM dump exactly matches my EA cart Unfortunately, that just adds to my confusion about which revision came first... That version I have also on cart. I'm also confused, and I think it will be hard to determine which one was the first revision. I'd say that a "0 errors message" is an added feature (why would a newer version leave that message out?) So I still think that my version without that message is the older version. But I also have to admit, my interest in this assembler was just for the fact that it has a cool debugger init. Since Larry (atariage member) showed me Synassembler, i have lost interest in Assembler Editor. I now have a cart with Synassembler, and man that rocks... it is FAST and has a very nice built in ML monitor. And the best: it is compatible with SpartaDos diskversion, blackbox, and everything else I use. The lack of Macro's is not a problem for me, since I hate them anyway (macro's are incredible source-expanders). Greetz M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slor Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I've not had chance to give them a decent look over, but I'd guess the one that reports # of errors would be later. That was one of the big annoyances of the AsmEd - you'd have to specify NOLIST so that you'd at least find out if errors were present if you went away during Assembly. At least with an error count message, you could be guaranteed to know something's wrong regardless of how you do the run. I'm beginning to agree with that - also based on the fact that I would think the move from a 2-chip to a 1-chip cart would have been more likely than a move from 1-chip to 2-chip and because the manual does not show the error summary in its example. What's weird to me is that, based on that and based on the chip revisions, it kinda puts my EA cart _between_ the two AE carts, assuming this chronology makes sense: AE1 (CXL4003 darker brown, no error summary): CO14503-03 and CO12403-03 (no dates) EA (no part #, no error summary): CO14503A-03 (1980) and CO12403A-05 (1982) - I would think the 'A' chips are updates to the non-A, and 1982 is certainly well past the original release for Assembler Editor. AE2 (CXL4003 lighter brown, error summary): - CO60303A-29 (1980) - If error summary was a new feature based on complaints, and guessing that 1 larger chip became more cost effective than 2 small ones. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slor Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 But I also have to admit, my interest in this assembler was just for the fact that it has a cool debugger init. Since Larry (atariage member) showed me Synassembler, i have lost interest in Assembler Editor. I now have a cart with Synassembler, and man that rocks... it is FAST and has a very nice built in ML monitor. And the best: it is compatible with SpartaDos diskversion, blackbox, and everything else I use. The lack of Macro's is not a problem for me, since I hate them anyway (macro's are incredible source-expanders). I don't use it for a whole lot either, but I've been trying to figure out for a while what the deal is between the different naming, though I thought I had checked in the past and still only found one binary, so this discussion has re-sparked my historical interest. I believe I emailed the credited author of Assembler Editor based on Larry's input in another thread, but I never heard back if I did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Cool. Maybe they gave it some sort of mid-life upgrade. I doubt they'd have improved the speed though, although with a non-tokenised Assembler on our old 6502, you can't really expect much. Hi Rybags, Did you see my question where I ask if you could be more specific about the 'bugs'... I can not reproduce the problems, because I don't know where to type DEC or LDA in debug mode. If the bugs can not be reproduced on my cart(s) they might be fixed versions? I'm very interested in that! I hope you can describe the steps here! Thanks a lot anyway!! Marius You seem be asking how enter DEC or LDA in debug mode. You have the manual. C is for change memory. eg. C5001<23 puts a hex $23 in $5001. You display $5000 with D5000 For a DEC absolute it would be C5000<CE, for LDA immediate would be C5000<A9 ie. you need to know the hex value for op code. Sorry if you already know this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Go to the debugger: DEBUG If you want to disassemble a section of memory, type L addr. This will disassemble the data starting at 'addr'. A legal command is L DE (with a space between the L and DE). You will see output starting with address $DE. You may also type in LDE - no space, and it works the same. But, although L DA disassembles at address $DA, typing LDA (no space) gives you an immediate error. Same with D EC (display at $EC) verses DEC (error raspberry). In these cases, the editor thinks you are trying to assemble an instruction into memory and you didn't enter a complete instruction. Both versions of ASM/ED do this. Bob Cool. Maybe they gave it some sort of mid-life upgrade. I doubt they'd have improved the speed though, although with a non-tokenised Assembler on our old 6502, you can't really expect much. Hi Rybags, Did you see my question where I ask if you could be more specific about the 'bugs'... I can not reproduce the problems, because I don't know where to type DEC or LDA in debug mode. If the bugs can not be reproduced on my cart(s) they might be fixed versions? I'm very interested in that! I hope you can describe the steps here! Thanks a lot anyway!! Marius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Well, I have asked Kathleen, the author of the Atari Assembler Editor, please see the results: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Atari%20Assembler%20Editor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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