Duke Nukem PR firm says bad reviews = no more reviews

[HammR25]

#AlwaysBetOnDuke - Too many went too far with their reviews...we r reviewing who gets games next time and who doesn't based on today's venom

 

For some reason 2K Games fired these guys for that comment. This stuff happens all the time but you can't just go out and say it where everyone and anyone can read it.

 

Ars Technica has a good article about the whole situation.

[Reaperman]

It's odd that an organization concerned entirely with public relations would act so unprofessionally. Unless this itself is just a carefully crafted PR stunt.

 

Still, no games for previous bad reviews is nothing that we haven't guessed about for a good while. If an outlet totally downs on a game there is probably no early access to the next one, meaning everybody and their mother will scoop them. This is especially true for printed magazines, who probably have to get their mag to the printer weeks, sometimes a month+ prior to keep their costs down. (wife used to work for a mag printer, and we've talked about this before) If it weren't for early access, print mags would be in even more trouble than they are currently, so I rarely see anything but softball reviews in them except for games from the most minor of publishers.

 

I've noticed that even for games that get dumped on, some outlets will try and say at least something positive. Perhaps identifying an audience that could overlook its (massive) flaws. This is probably the compromise that I would make in that place, myself, and seems to be the direction many are taking on the game in question.

 

This 'buddy system' is the only answer I can think of as to why GTA4 got such high reviews. I hate to call just one one out, but the shoe fits awfully well. Early access to the next GTA blockbuster is critical to the growth of any game media outlet.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Reaperman

[Skarrj]

It's odd that an organization concerned entirely with public relations would act so unprofessionally. Unless this itself is just a carefully crafted PR stunt.

 

Still, no games for previous bad reviews is nothing that we haven't guessed about for a good while. If an outlet totally downs on a game there is probably no early access to the next one, meaning everybody and their mother will scoop them. This is especially true for printed magazines, who probably have to get their mag to the printer weeks, sometimes a month+ prior to keep their costs down. (wife used to work for a mag printer, and we've talked about this before) If it weren't for early access, print mags would be in even more trouble than they are currently, so I rarely see anything but softball reviews in them except for games from the most minor of publishers.

 

I've noticed that even for games that get dumped on, some outlets will try and say at least something positive. Perhaps identifying an audience that could overlook its (massive) flaws. This is probably the compromise that I would make in that place, myself, and seems to be the direction many are taking on the game in question.

 

This 'buddy system' is the only answer I can think of as to why GTA4 got such high reviews. I hate to call just one one out, but the shoe fits awfully well. Early access to the next GTA blockbuster is critical to the growth of any game media outlet.

 

As much as I really like GTA4, I was surprised at some of the reviews claiming it was the best game ever created...cmon now. Id say that the buddy system helped Bioshock get such rave reviews also. That game was mediocre at best.

 

Alice is also taking a critical beating...but yet Im really lovin that game. Its beutiful and ugly at the same time.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Skarrj

[the.golden.ax]

LOL, it's funny. They should have said it, heck yeah, but in Duke phrases. "Those reviews will hurt come winter!"

 

 

AX

[HuckleCat]

Yeah, they messed up.

 

The response from 2K games, per BluesNews:

 

"2K Games does not endorse the comments made by Jim Redner and we can confirm that The Redner Group no longer represents our products. We have always maintained a mutually-respectful working relationship with the press and do not condone his actions in any way."

 

 

So there you go.

 

As someone who's played it, and FPS games for that matter since the dawn of the genre, I can honestly say that the game would have been much better if it was released 10 years ago. Today though, it's just generic.

 

Duke3D was a big deal because it came out at a time when all FPS games were just seen as "Doom Clones". Duke3D was the first FPS game to come along that was widely seen as being better than Doom. I think that this is why the game took so long and kept changing engines. George Broussard and the others at 3D Realms were pressured by their own standards to make another "groundbreaking" FPS. The problem with that today is that a "groundbreaking" FPS seems to come out every other month. 3D Realms knew that the game at this point was nothing more than average at best, they were out of ideas, and just did not know what to do.

 

The guys at Kotaku pointed something out that is true about the game: Gearbox never said it was going to be great, just that it was finally coming out. They knew.

[keilbaca]

I just find it amusing that people were expecting a groundbreaking game. I mean 10 years ago... yes it would have. It would have been the first to have the regeneration health, and it would have been more run and gun like Moycon said in the other DNF thread. People who expected this to be groundbreaking... come on. It is a 10 year old game. You bought it for the humor. I did... and I am loving it.

[MagitekAngel]

This reminds me of when Jeff Gerstmann was fired from Gamespot over his unflattering Kane and Lynch review, when it turned out Eidos was buying its review scores. This kind of publicity is far worse for a game than the most scathing review.

[Algus]

The reviews I've read of DNF make so sense to me. What was everyone expecting? This game was never going to be anything more than a run-of-the-mill shooter. Like on IGN's review I was agreeing with everything, "yup, yup" then they are all "5 overall LOL" and I'm like WTF bro?

 

It is a competent, albeit by the numbers, FPS with a decent amount of comedy and some fun single-player missions. It is a solid 7 in my book.

 

Man, I'll just be glad when the FPS craze is over. If it ever does get over.

[n8littlefield]

I actually can see both sides in this one particular case. They didn't say "Bad review = no more games" they referred specifically to the venom included in many of those reviews. Sending a review copy out means they would like your site to post a review of the game - good or bad. Many of these sites took that review copy and decided to write 5 page essays on how terrible the game was, how it's the most disgusting thing they've ever played and that if left alone the game might kill your puppy.

 

They took a mediocre game and decided to see just how many ways they could destroy it. I can't say I blame the PR group from saying if you took that review copy and didn't give it an objective review, instead choosing to troll the internet with one of these giant diatribes on how evil the title is that maybe you're not on the A list of getting future titles.

 

If it was a simple, "If you gave us a bad review, you're off our list" I could see being upset, but many, many sites have used Duke as a punching bag and seem to be having a contest on which site can slam it the hardest.

[the.golden.ax]

Hell if I can pass off enough scratched PS2 crud to a GameStop I'll be buying it

 

AX

[wccw mark]

its a fun ass game,if you like previous duke nukem games and knew what to expect.anyone reviewing DNF like its the next cod or some groundbreaking game,they dont understand or care what the game is truly about.

[HuckleCat]

Yeah, I'm going to step in here and remind everyone why it took so long to come out.

 

It was supposed to be "groundbreaking" Keep in mind, the Duke Nukem games that came out between 3D and Forever were not done by Broussard and his team.

 

 

You don't waste more than a decade and tons of money to release a run-of-the-mill game. If you don't know this, you either were too young to remember, or did not pay attention to how many engine changes and revisions the game had, the screenshots that showed up, or any of the interviews with George Broussard. Like I said before, they took too long, and each time something better came along, they changed the engine, the story, everything, in an effort to make sure the game raised the bar. Now everything does this, and it was impossible to really keep up, and they did not know what to do.

 

Broussard did want the game to be "groundbreaking", yeah. If this wasn't the case, it would have showed up more than a decade ago running on the Quake 2 engine.

 

 

Yeah, anybody who knows the stories behind the games development was expecting something better than average. It wasn't, and thats why George Broussard was ready to have the game never be released.

[xg4bx]

it needed more time in the oven,imo its still unfinished. theres a skeleton of a good game there but the meat needed much, much more polish.

[Hyper_Eye]

I can't help but feel so far that DNF might as well be on rails.

[HatefulGravey]

it needed more time in the oven,imo its still unfinished. theres a skeleton of a good game there but the meat needed much, much more polish.

 

I'm personally very happy to be able to play the game at all. If this was released as a PS2 title right now no one would think twice about it. The fact that this game in one the 360 and PS3 is changing the view of the game.

 

It seems like the fact that is was release for the 360 and PS3 has changed what people think about this game. Lets remember that this game wasn't made this year, it was released this year. The fact is this game was never going to be released before 2K got it. They could have gotten the rights and taken another few years to reprogram it too look better and include more modern FPS main stays but we would still be waiting for this game. There is no good reason to believe that this game would have ever made the market if they had started reprogramming it again anyway.

 

Maybe its just the classic gamer in me coming out but this game doesn't let me down. I'm not upset by graphics that aren't "modern". I'm not upset by "dated game play". I enjoy this game for what it is and I'm thankful they released it at all. Never releasing this game was the easy option to take and no one would have complained anymore then they have for the last 15 years. Hell this game was a joke and rarely ever mentioned until they started talking about actually releasing it, now everyone is acting like it was a sin to release it.

 

Would it have been better fan service to just never release this game? If nothing else releasing this game finally frees up Duke for new games again.

[+Random Terrain]

I don't believe I ever played a Duke Nukem game. I don't know the difference between Duke Nukem and Serious Sam.

 

If the big review web sites are supposedly corrupt, where can we go for honest game reviews?

[HatefulGravey]

I don't believe I ever played a Duke Nukem game. I don't know the difference between Duke Nukem and Serious Sam.

 

If the big review web sites are supposedly corrupt, where can we go for honest game reviews?

 

The same place you go for everything else, YouTube. There are a pile of honest reviews there. You normally have to give it a few more days then the established channels, but if you watch a few of the reviews there you can normally get a good idea of the game.

[+Random Terrain]

The same place you go for everything else, YouTube. There are a pile of honest reviews there. You normally have to give it a few more days then the established channels, but if you watch a few of the reviews there you can normally get a good idea of the game.

Oh, I thought every YouTube reviewer was trying to be an 'angry nerd,' so you couldn't trust anything they say since they're just trying to get the most views.

[the.golden.ax]

The same place you go for everything else, YouTube. There are a pile of honest reviews there. You normally have to give it a few more days then the established channels, but if you watch a few of the reviews there you can normally get a good idea of the game.

Oh, I thought every YouTube reviewer was trying to be an 'angry nerd,' so you couldn't trust anything they say since they're just trying to get the most views.

 

 

Since you already succeeded in being an angry nerd why don't you have a youtube channel RT? :thumbsup:

 

AX

[+Random Terrain]

Since you already succeeded in being an angry nerd why don't you have a youtube channel RT? :thumbsup:

I do:

 

www.youtube.com/user/Replayability

 

But I can't do reviews and show my face because I'm in the witless protection program. And most of my reviews would be the same anyway. "This game isn't replayable. Everything is in the same place every time you play it. It sucks!"

[Algus]

Yeah, I'm going to step in here and remind everyone why it took so long to come out.

 

It was supposed to be "groundbreaking" Keep in mind, the Duke Nukem games that came out between 3D and Forever were not done by Broussard and his team.

 

 

You don't waste more than a decade and tons of money to release a run-of-the-mill game. If you don't know this, you either were too young to remember, or did not pay attention to how many engine changes and revisions the game had, the screenshots that showed up, or any of the interviews with George Broussard. Like I said before, they took too long, and each time something better came along, they changed the engine, the story, everything, in an effort to make sure the game raised the bar. Now everything does this, and it was impossible to really keep up, and they did not know what to do.

 

Broussard did want the game to be "groundbreaking", yeah. If this wasn't the case, it would have showed up more than a decade ago running on the Quake 2 engine.

 

 

Yeah, anybody who knows the stories behind the games development was expecting something better than average. It wasn't, and thats why George Broussard was ready to have the game never be released.

 

All true but Apogee (excuse me, "3D Realms") lost the rights to the game and Gearbox wanted nothing more than to finish what was given to them and get it out the door. If anyone was expecting it to be groundbreaking after that happened, they were deluding themselves. Gearbox made it very clear that their position was just to get it out the door so we could finally play it. At best it is a love-letter to 20 and 30something Duke fans that have been waiting since they were kids for it to come out.

[HatefulGravey]

This just in, they have started programming Duke Nukem: Call of Halo. It will be a first person shooter with weapon load-outs, power armor, and the graphics will be 50% shinny purple crap and 50% dusty half blown up crap. This game is sure to be a hit with the exact same people that rush to the stores to buy all the other run of the mill FPS games and that is really what every gamer wants, uniformity.

 

Why play anything else? Why not just buy what has the newest graphics and the newest engine, and the newest FPS styling?

 

Other games that play "on rails" as I have heard this game described include every FPS game I have ever played. COD, Halo, Resistance, Crysis... they are all the same. You have to get from point A to point B, there are bad guys on the way and there will be a large area with some cover and a few weapon pickups to fight said bad guys in. When you get to point B there will probably be a cut scene, maybe some new weapon you haven't seen before, and then you will need to progress to point C, on the way there will be bad guys, and this time you get to drive something. Maybe a tank, or a chopper, or a jeep...

 

I'm still standing by, and will keep saying, this game was not made for the 360 and PS3, you can't expect 360 and PS3 style gaming. I wanted that, I was hopeful that I would get that, but I never expected that.

 

I'm starting to wish this game had just stayed a pipe dream never to come true. At least then people would just be complaining that it was never going to happen instead of picking it a part. There were tons of people that would have been happy to play a game that looked and played like DN3D up to the point that this game was release. Now everyone is acting like DNF is the worst thing to happen to gaming.

[Hyper_Eye]

Look, Duke 3D was very open, the action began almost immediately, and there was a ton about it that was memorable. If you removed the lewd aspects there still would have been a great game there. Remove the lewdness from this game, which they have managed to make utterly bland, and you have a pretty terrible shooter. Let me count the ways.

 

The graphics may be unimpressive compared to many modern games but I don't care about that. I am often playing games from previous generations that are still on my queue and so my perception of what makes good or bad graphics tends to be quite skewed. I find the graphics to be fine in that regard. My problem with them is that they are really glitchy. I see glitches all the time. These are things that should have been considered crucial to fix before release. They aren't glitches that require you to do something strange to see. In the very first hall of Dukes suite there is a massive graphical glitch that was reproducible just by backing up and walking forward. As a software developer that is the sort of thing I would instantly jump on because it is so easy to reproduce and that is half the battle with bugs. There are a ton of these types of glitches. They let them slide. Bad form.

 

When I say the game might as well be on rails I am talking about two things. One is the point A to point B to point C gameplay which sucks but is common for modern games. I am also talking about the narrowness of the path. It really really might as well be on rails. You spend a lot of time in narrow hallways and there is only one right direction. When you are going through large rooms there is almost always debris and obstacles that turn the large room into the equivalent of a narrow hallway. When you are outside there are barricades, strew cars, and cavern walls that do the same thing. So most of the game is just a long twisting hallway with different scenery. I wanted the huge explorable areas, canyons, and city streets that Duke3D had. This is as far away from that as they could have possibly gone.

 

Also, I spent the first 30 - 45 minutes of the game wondering when in the hell it was going to start. They throw an awesome boss at you almost right away and then bore you to tears with this long trudge of dullness that serves no other purpose than to remind you of how great Duke is. I already know how great Duke is. That's why I spent $100 on this damn game! One of the things that made Duke great was that the action began immediately and it was sustained. So get on with it! Also, whoever made the decision that you should be limited to two weapons instead of being able to carry Duke's entire arsenal, they obviously had no clue what made Duke Nukem what it was. They should be fired.

 

The jokes are bad. Many of them are just movie or internet references that don't really fit the context well and they are completely unoriginal. Further, if you are going to be offensive you better make sure the joke is also damn funny. Abortion jokes are probably a bad bet in general. If they aren't funny then all you are doing is poking one of the most taboo of subjects with a pointy stick in an icky way. Further, the dialog is lame and pointless.

 

I played the 2D Duke Nukem games. I anticipated Duke 3D and when it came out I was all over it. Even in the face of the greatness that was Quake I couldn't stop playing Duke 3D. I still play it today. I have it installed on numerous computers and on original Xbox's scattered throughout the house. It is my goto homebrew game when I fire up the Xbox even though I am responsible for the port of the Odamex Doom client to it (though that is not my sole Odamex responsibility.) I am a Duke fan. I preordered the collector's edition (which the last game I preordered was Oblivion and the last collectors edition I bought was WoW WotLK) with no questions asked because it's Duke. I wasn't looking for a completely modern and perfect shooter to show up. I was looking for Duke Nukem to show up. All I got was a shell of his former self.

 

I understand all of the issues that came up along the way. I was logged into the 3D Realms forums all that time along with everyone else. I know it is incredible the game is finally here. But like you, I wish the game had remained vaporware. Not because people are trashing it and I don't think people are capable of getting it anymore. I wish they didn't sully Duke with this piece of trash they think is worthy of being called Duke Nukem Forever. They can make all the excuses they want but nothing excuses the release of this unfinished, uninspired, boring garbage. All I can think about while playing it is how badly I want to play Duke3D, not because it is so nostalgic, but because I want to be reminded that Duke Nukem used to be a great game that people loved to play.

 

If you want Duke Nukem action there are great games that have a modern take on it. Serious Sam is a fantastic pick. Now they have Serious Sam HD and it is cheap as Sam always has been and it offers a great and memorable experience. If you want to play a game that was once vaporware and finally saw the light of day play Prey. They actually finished that game and delivered a product worth losing the vaporware label. Just don't play Duke Nukem Forever. It will just end in tears.

[HatefulGravey]

I respect your opinion and it is well thought out and expressed. That said I think you were expecting way too much from this game.

 

I followed the on again off again development of this game as well. When the finally said it would be released I assumed the game would have certain flaws still remaining from all the enigine swaps and reprogramming and adding this and removing that. It would seem you assumed the game would be in great shape after 10+ years of development.

 

As for this game not deserving the name Duke Nukem Forever... I couldn't disagree more. If someone is learning about Duke for the first time with this game they may get a little confused about the hype. Then again, if they are young enough to have completely missed DN3D then would have probably over looked that game entirely because it isn't cutting edge enough for them. Anyone that stops to think about the road this game took to get to the market would know why it is what it is, and would more then likely respect that it is even here.

 

I guess the main point here is, I completely agree that you were let down for legit reasons, and I suspect you aren't near the Duke Nukem fan that was expected to want this game. This game is fan service, if you aren't a fan it probably wont do much for you.

 

At this point I'm not worried about another Duke game. I'm sold that we will get another, more modern, Duke game. I don't know if it will be for better or worse but I'm sure we will get it. This game has gotten more press then a lot of games with great ratings get, there will be another Duke game. Maybe that one will be good enough for modern gamers to love and not destroy everything I love about Duke now. I don't think the two things can live in the same place, but maybe they can.

[Hyper_Eye]

Maybe you should read my post again and see where I expressed that I am a fan and have always been a fan. If I am not the Duke Nukem fan they were aiming for then I don't know who is. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I don't care what the reasons for the results are. The game is garbage. If the intention were to show people what was in development for so long they should have released it as it was for free. If you receive a piece of crap that isn't worth finishing then don't finish it. We all know though that this isn't the game that was in development for all those years. It was completely rebooted a number of times. Besides, they are not even presenting it that way. They are completely excited about what they released and they are offended by the bad reviews. Apparently their involvement blinded them. This should be a disappointment to those unfamiliar with Duke and the biggest fans alike. As matter of fact it should be more disappointing to long time fans because this is such a big black eye on the Duke Nukem legacy. I really really really want to like this game. I just can't. There are so few redeeming qualities. Anyone who does think this game was worth the release and the price they ask is as delusional as they are. Anyone who is on the fence about getting it is in luck though because used copies will be inundating local game stores in no time and it is bound to be flooding the bargain bins.