SIDE next HDD for Atari 8 bit preorder

[Faicuai]

 

Can I ask - were you one of the people who was recently contacted and asked for shipping information? I only ask because I am one of the first to pre-ored this back in July, and I was on that list.

 

 

Checked my CheckOut email, checked my AAage message list, and it definitely was NOT me.

 

F.

[+Firedawg]

Updated Open SIDE Order List: No Change

 

http://www.atariage....ost__p__2468195

 

Mike

[JamesD]

The deadline is March 8th, 2012 (my deadline, that is). If he does not come clean with a clear path/timeline forward, or at least does not refund his empty promises, I will make sure his little troy-horse burns down to ashes.

Actually, I think both parties would have to agree to a "Time of Performance" (when the contract is to be fulfilled by).

You'd want to talk to a lawyer to be sure though.

 

Pre-orders were pretty open ended on delivery date except he did set a bit of a timeline in my case when he said when the next batch would be available in an email to me when I placed the order.

He also said he was shipping mine "tomorrow" several days ago so I would definitely have legal recourse if anyone does.

I'm hoping he comes through though.

 

Really, if he's using new orders to pay to finish old ones, he needs to raise the price on new orders so he can catch up.

[+wood_jl]

The deadline is March 8th, 2012 (my deadline, that is). If he does not come clean with a clear path/timeline forward, or at least does not refund his empty promises, I will make sure his little troy-horse burns down to ashes.

Actually, I think both parties would have to agree to a "Time of Performance" (when the contract is to be fulfilled by).

You'd want to talk to a lawyer to be sure though.

 

[this message is not directed to JamesD; I merely quoted him because of the reference to lawyer]

 

How realistic is it to think about paying for a lawyer for a device that cost a paltry £45? I'm assuming that - like me - Mr. JayMiner800 is in the U.S. How hard would a local lawyer laugh about this, before charging you the £45 equivalent in Yankee Greenbacks for the consultation fee? My guess is that they'll tell you that if you want to sue someone in another country, you GO TO THAT COUNTRY and consult an attorney there. So then, we're talking:

 

1) Buy a round-trip (unless planning on moving) ticket for $750-ish.

2) Lodging and food, for the time you're there (perhaps some Londoners can estimate this for us)

3) Consult an Attorney, pay the fee (more than SIDE cost)

4) Wait for court date in the future. Fly back home.

5) Another $750 airfare when court date finally arrives.

 

Add nearly $100 to that, if you need to renew your passport.

 

That's why that big talk of "burning his troy horse down to ashes" is so completely laughable. Turns out it was childish banter for "ask for a refund." Good luck with that. Please let us know how it turns out! But here's a few hints:

 

From.....

 

http://support.googl...en&answer=81849

 

Google cannot approve returns or initiate refunds on behalf of the seller. Please contact the seller with your request....

 

Policies vary by seller, so they may or may not be able to accommodate your request.

Request Mediation

 

Sellers are responsible for processing returns and refunds; you'll receive quicker assistance if you first contact the seller directly. If the seller has been unresponsive to your return/refund request, and you placed your order within the last 90 days, Google can mediate by contacting the seller on your behalf.

 

Ok, so there's the ridiculous "file a civil lawsuit from the United States" option. Then there's the "little troy-horse burns down to ashes"......er....I mean.....request refund option. I think I just covered that.

 

The only remaining choice is to continue to wait patiently, and hope for the best. I imagine zaxon's been going through some tough times. There was talk of unemployment, etc. earlier in the thread. But it looks like he's filling orders slowly. It certainly would be nice for information and updates, and we can only make wild guesses as to why there isn't more. My guess is he doesn't want to come on just to make excuses, and he's probably doing what he can. I base this on successful transactions with him before. People - especially people with NO RECOURSE - ranting childishly and behaving like belligerent pricks - will not only make him LESS LIKELY to come on here and give updates, but to abandon them entirely. I know whose I'd ship last (if I were zaxon), as Metalguy suggested, earlier in this thread.

 

Let's continue to be hopeful. zaxon is obviously very talented, needs to be encouraged to complete this project, and when things get better for him - maybe make some more stuff. I want my goddamned SIDE (x2) as much as anybody here. Since waiting and encouraging is the only thing to do, let's do it like grown-ups.

Edited February 24, 2012 by wood_jl

[Faicuai]

That's why that big talk of "burning his troy horse down to ashes" is so completely laughable.

 

...The only laughable thing here is the bizarre (and absurd) science-fiction "unfolding" you have depicted, above, as possible actions.

 

Let's continue to be hopeful (...) I want my goddamned SIDE (x2) as much as anybody here. ...

 

Yes, I can see how your "suck-your-thumb" instictive impulse seems stronger that your own rational thinking.

 

As a consolation (so you can keep sucking-that-breast as long as you want), you can have my SIDE-cart order instead, as long as I get refunded properly (which is not that much to ask, after four-five months of wait). Your limited reasoning on this subject did not even let you think of the benefits of my own position (which eventually helps PRUNE Zaxon's list!)

 

For the rest, your position is basically complacient, mediocre and may well suit your own life-style and overall sense-of-accomplisment (but don't expect it will fit mine, though).

 

F.

[+wood_jl]

Hey Faicuai: There's no point in us beating this dead horse anymore.

 

To summarize: I have no ill intent for you. I'd like you to get your SIDE - or a refund - whatever it takes to make you happy. I just don't think it's too realistic that it's going to happen, that's all. I think that if we create a "hostile" environment for zaxon, we will get less communication. We want more. We want him to feel welcome to come in here and post, and do whatever it is he can, because you can't get any more than that. I think it's obvious we both really love the Atari computers, so let's just enjoy that commonality, and play nice.

 

Have a good day, and I hope everything works out for you, me, and everybody else.

[Charlie_]

Thing that gets to me most is having to hear about people getting an Ultra Satan while I'm still waiting.

With SIDE it was a group of preorders. To read about people getting the Ultra Satan on Atari-forum, and then be told here one was delivered in under two weeks......

 

I deleted what I just typed.....

 

Let's just say it shows the character of the person we are dealing with.....

 

[JamesD]

If someone were to go after zaxon for their money, all recovery related expenses would be tacked on to the original amount, not just the original amount. That could include travel, lodging, phone calls, attorney fees, court costs, etc... Failure to deliver a little item can turn into a big problem.

 

FWIW, there is a story about someone in the Coleco Adam community not delivering a product that was prepaid in a similar matter and he supposedly spent time in jail. That gentleman also had a sad "I'm unemployed" story which turned into a sad I'm an unemployed convict story. And at one time, that person had been well respected within the Adam community. I don't think he's been heard from since.

 

I am also aware of an instance where someone was ripping people off on ebay and someone took the time to track the person down. They posted the guy's physical address and when someone didn't get their refund they took things into their own hands and put something in his gas tank, resulting in the need for a new engine in his car. And the last update I read said something about the local Sheriff paying him a "friendly" visit. I stopped following things after that because I finally received what I ordered from him.

 

I'm still within 90 days so my best action is probably through google checkout. I'll wait a few more days though since he said he shipped it.

[MEtalGuy66]

Heh.. They are not gonna put anyone in jail over this unless you wanna pester the authorities into going to the extremes of actually PROVING that there was intent to defraud from the start.. Otherwise, best you will get is a "civil judgement" against him. In which case, there's an old saying, "You can't squeeze blood from a turnip." Unless he has assets that can be legally liquidated, or wages that can be legally garnered, you just force him to start living/dealing "under the table" and you probably never get your money. No one ever really wins in that sort of scenario (except maybe the attourneys who take your money initially).. Best to leave the legal crap out of it.. REALLY..

[Charlie_]

MetalGuy is probably right for the most part... After all we are expressing how disappointed we are about not getting the items.

I think most here would feel like myself, I don't really want money back. I want my Ultra Satan, you guys want your SIDE carts.

 

[+Firedawg]

Below is a link to Google Wallet's mediation requirements. It appears for any of us outside of 90 days of placing our order we will be out of luck. If a credit card was used possibly seeking a remedy with them is possible, but slim. I will continue to work with Zaxon and give him the benefit of the doubt that his personal troubles have caused him to push things out due to money issues, poor organization and planing, but in the end I still require my SIDE.

 

We must all maintain our sanity and deal with this matter adult like. I know some of us here are off gassing because we can, but we must not distract this communication of this thread to in fighting, but to continue our focus and encouragement upon Zaxon to make good on his word to ship all orders.

 

Mike

 

Link to Google Wallet - Request a Mediation

 

Note: Sorry for the duplication of information as I should have read Wood_jl entire post. Well said Wood!

[JamesD]

Heh.. They are not gonna put anyone in jail over this unless you wanna pester the authorities into going to the extremes of actually PROVING that there was intent to defraud from the start.. Otherwise, best you will get is a "civil judgement" against him.

Have you actually looked at the number of outstanding orders and totaled up the amount? And that is just SIDE orders, who knows what the others total up to.

If he took money and spent the money somewhere else, he has committed fraud. Intending to eventually fill the orders some day isn't a defense.

 

 

If someone were to want to offer to buy zaxon a cup of coffee (or tea I suppose) and discuss how we can resolve this, here is his address from google wallet:

 

zaxon

3 Arrowscout Walk

London

UB5 6EE

UNITED KINGDOM

[+wood_jl]

Well, Mike Hohman (Fine Tooned Engineering aka "He who bought out ICD rights) took a lot of people's money for the "Mars 8" (and other things) right here in Estados Unidos, and nothing ever happened. Now compare with someone in another country, halfway around the world.

 

If one is within the 90 days, they may have options. The rest of us need to simply encourage zaxon to finish this. For someone of his skill, I have to believe he values his reputation enough to come through on this. The more threatening this thread gets, the less likely we'll ever hear from him.

 

Perhaps one of the more salient customers can get on an OrvilleAndWilburWrightAirplane and visit, if they have $750. The info from Google didn't have a number to call on the AlexanderGrahmBellTelephone, so that's not an option. :lol: :lol:

Edited February 24, 2012 by wood_jl

[JamesD]

Well, Mike Hohman (Fine Tooned Engineering aka "He who bought out ICD rights) took a lot of people's money for the "Mars 8" (and other things) right here in Estados Unidos, and nothing ever happened. Now compare with someone in another country, halfway around the world.

 

If one is within the 90 days, they may have options. The rest of us need to simply encourage zaxon to finish this. For someone of his skill, I have to believe he values his reputation enough to come through on this. The more threatening this thread gets, the less likely we'll ever hear from him.

 

Perhaps one of the more salient customers can get on an OrvilleAndWilburWrightAirplane and visit, if they have $750. The info from Google didn't have a number to call on the AlexanderGrahmBellTelephone, so that's not an option. :lol: :lol:

I've never seen a more ignorant response to getting ripped off. And you post smileys?

Pathetic.

[+wood_jl]

I've never seen a more ignorant response to getting ripped off. And you post smileys?

Pathetic.

I know you really value your own opinions, as your arrogance comes through quite clearly in most of what you post on this site. If you think it's ignorant and pathetic, I'm here to tell you that I really don't give a shit, and I wonder what misled you into thinking - even for a second - that I would.

 

Why don't you get your ass over to that address that [somewhat inappropriately] posted, then, and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Get your wallet out and get to a lawyer, rather than spouting off all your legal advice that it's practical to do so. I find it rather telling of your personality that you would suggest something as retarded as an international lawsuit (I tried to be nice and not bring it up but your arrogance requires it) over a $75 item. Are you gullible enough to think that anybody's going to give a shit? :lol: There's some more smileys for you. HA HA. It's okay to be arrogant, but try and control your emotions, pal.

Edited February 24, 2012 by wood_jl

[svenski]

There are always options available but going down the legal route would be expensive and probably pointless - oh and there is the small matter of two different countries being involved for those who live in the States.

 

If you paid by card then contact your card company and do a chargeback. Simple really. Google checkout won't be able to do anything about it. You get your money back.

 

Will this help get this resolved for everyone? Probably not. If Zaxxon is suffering financially (he's stated he lost his job) then I guess he is doing what he can to get things out given his limited income. Zaxxon being hit by chargebacks and Google attempting to take the money and fees from his bank account will impact him probably very heavily and will make it a lot harder for him to do the right thing by everyone - if that is indeed what he is trying to do.

 

Everyone needs to make their own decision on what to do .

 

If you feel that you have been conned or that you'll never see your product then chargeback.

If you feel that Zaxxon is probably trying to do the right thing then be patient like you have been so far.

If you paid via your bank account then ermmm be patient.

If you live in the UK and feel you've been conned and paid via your bank there is a little thing called the small claims court system.

 

If Zaxxon is in the financial doodoo then legal action will achieve squat, maybe win you a share of his last can of baked beans.

 

I sincerely hope everyone gets what they ordered.

[JamesD]

Now your just trolling wood_jl

Edited February 24, 2012 by JamesD

[JamesD]

I wasn't really upset over this, I pretty much knew I'd have to wait when I placed the order.

But I realized that some of you don't have any reasonable options and I did, so I thought I should take advantage of what option I had and asked for a refund.

 

In the event I do end up receiving a SIDE (which I doubt), zaxon can get the payment back or I can forward the SIDE cart to someone else in the US at zaxon's request.

I think I'd prefer the latter because it will also help resolve someone else's issue as well.

BTW, I did ask for proof he'd shipped my order and he didn't respond.

 

This is how google checkout responded btw.

Hello,

 

Thank you for contacting us about Google Order #--------------------. We no

longer allow zaxon to process orders using Google Wallet. As your account

shows that you have already been charged for this order, we have issued

you a refund to the credit card used to place this order.

 

Refunds can take up to an additional three business days to appear on your

credit card statement. If the refund does not appear, please contact your

bank for more information. To see which credit card was used in this

transaction, visit ------------------------------------

 

If the refund is successful and the seller provides sufficient evidence

that your order was completed according to our Terms of Service and their

published policies, you may be recharged for this order. If you don't hear

from us within four weeks, please consider this refund final.

 

If you'd like to place a new order with this seller outside of Google

Wallet, please do so at your own risk. Alternatively, to view a selection

of other stores using Google Wallet, please visit

http://www.google.com/wallet/m.html

 

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this order may have caused

you.

 

Sincerely,

 

The Google Wallet Team

 

[Charlie_]

I wasn't really upset over this, I pretty much knew I'd have to wait when I placed the order.

But I realized that some of you don't have any reasonable options and I did, so I thought I should take advantage of what option I had and asked for a refund.

 

In the event I do end up receiving a SIDE (which I doubt), zaxon can get the payment back or I can forward the SIDE cart to someone else in the US at zaxon's request.

I think I'd prefer the latter because it will also help resolve someone else's issue as well.

BTW, I did ask for proof he'd shipped my order and he didn't respond.

 

This is how google checkout responded btw.

Hello,

 

Thank you for contacting us about Google Order #--------------------. We no

longer allow zaxon to process orders using Google Wallet. As your account

shows that you have already been charged for this order, we have issued

you a refund to the credit card used to place this order.

 

Refunds can take up to an additional three business days to appear on your

credit card statement. If the refund does not appear, please contact your

bank for more information. To see which credit card was used in this

transaction, visit ------------------------------------

 

If the refund is successful and the seller provides sufficient evidence

that your order was completed according to our Terms of Service and their

published policies, you may be recharged for this order. If you don't hear

from us within four weeks, please consider this refund final.

 

If you'd like to place a new order with this seller outside of Google

Wallet, please do so at your own risk. Alternatively, to view a selection

of other stores using Google Wallet, please visit

http://www.google.com/wallet/m.html

 

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this order may have caused

you.

 

Sincerely,

 

The Google Wallet Team

 

 

 

So, will this only work if it has been less than 90 days?

 

I'd hate to do it, but if I am getting close to that amount of time I'm going to have to do the same thing.

 

[+Firedawg]

So, will this only work if it has been less than 90 days?

 

I'd hate to do it, but if I am getting close to that amount of time I'm going to have to do the same thing.

 

To protect yourself I would request a refund though Google Wallet before the 90 days. With a possible production run of SIDE by Sloopy that maybe the best alternative solution for obtaining one.

[Dropcheck]

I wasn't really upset over this, I pretty much knew I'd have to wait when I placed the order.

But I realized that some of you don't have any reasonable options and I did, so I thought I should take advantage of what option I had and asked for a refund.

 

In the event I do end up receiving a SIDE (which I doubt), zaxon can get the payment back or I can forward the SIDE cart to someone else in the US at zaxon's request.

I think I'd prefer the latter because it will also help resolve someone else's issue as well.

BTW, I did ask for proof he'd shipped my order and he didn't respond.

 

This is how google checkout responded btw.

Hello,

 

Thank you for contacting us about Google Order #--------------------. We no

longer allow zaxon to process orders using Google Wallet. As your account

shows that you have already been charged for this order, we have issued

you a refund to the credit card used to place this order.

 

Refunds can take up to an additional three business days to appear on your

credit card statement. If the refund does not appear, please contact your

bank for more information. To see which credit card was used in this

transaction, visit ------------------------------------

 

If the refund is successful and the seller provides sufficient evidence

that your order was completed according to our Terms of Service and their

published policies, you may be recharged for this order. If you don't hear

from us within four weeks, please consider this refund final.

 

If you'd like to place a new order with this seller outside of Google

Wallet, please do so at your own risk. Alternatively, to view a selection

of other stores using Google Wallet, please visit

http://www.google.com/wallet/m.html

 

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this order may have caused

you.

 

Sincerely,

 

The Google Wallet Team

 

 

Oh man...... Does this mean what I think it does or did everyone lose their ability to process through Google Wallet? I know they are going through consolidation over there.

 

I think it is far too late to even go to my credit card company now for a charge back.

[AtariGeezer]

I sent Piotr an email 4 days ago and told him that I'd be willing to send him some additional cash to cover the shipping after the 2nd SIDE is received, cause I know how it sucks being unemployed Maybe some kindness from others would help too

These are well worth more than what we paid...

 

Jay

[+Firedawg]

I sent Piotr an email 4 days ago and told him that I'd be willing to send him some additional cash to cover the shipping after the 2nd SIDE is received, cause I know how it sucks being unemployed Maybe some kindness from others would help too

These are well worth more than what we paid...

 

Jay

 

Looking at the project and the addition modification to the cart, which was certainly not factored in the production timeline and pricing, I would agree that the SIDE has more labor hours built into it than planned, hence to Jay's point "... well worth more than what we paid.". I would rather Piotr address (communicate) to everyone with the fact that he is short the necessary funding to ship a buyer SIDE. Cost of materials and additional paid labor outside of your own is one thing, labor expenditure of your own based on a product you advertised and secured sales on is another. If Piotr under priced the SIDE then he should come forth and state the fact and offer buyers to pay what the difference is or he should offer refunds to those who are unwilling to pay the addition cost.

 

That is the business side of me, but the human side is that I know how tough it is to be unemployed and trying to take care of a family. I sent Piotr a personal email encouraging him to stay strong and vigilant during this tough time. I did that as a friend not a buyer.

 

Mike

[TheMightyAxle]

If Zaxon needs cash for postage, I'd be willing to pay extra for it or even send him a pre-paid signed-for packet, so all he has to do is put the order in side and take it to the post office. I would also help out with orders in the UK if need be.

 

Alex.

[+Firedawg]

I just received an email from Zaxon informing me that my SIDE posted today along with a tracking number. Zaxon also stated that he had posted Mightyaxel and Dropcheck's SIDEs as well. I had shared with him in a prior email that a "Open SIDE Order Listing" had been created to assist him as he copied me back with that email.

 

So, I'm glad that he is shipping SIDEs, not just mine, but shipping. After 7 months of waiting I can attest that I was becoming somewhat concerned (SIDE not in hand yet), but I think we should all be patient and continue to encourage Piotr. I have been in his shoes before, but that has been sometime ago when a was a little younger (ok a lot younger!) but to be laid off from a job with a small family with no immediate comparable paying jobs around was heart wrenching, and scary for me with not that much worldly experience to fall back on. This is what I have been thinking about as we (some, not all) scrutinize this man and his lack of activity in doing what he said he would do and that is complete and ship our SIDE orders.

 

Let us continue to be patient, even when we find that he is still pushing devices elsewhere, as we know he maybe trying to generate income for himself and possibly his family, even if we do not agree with it. I have passed a long the idea of some assistance with paying some additional money for postage by members who are willing to do so, to help him out during this hard time. I will report if I get a reply. Sorry for the long post.

 

Mike