kurtm Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 You should never ignore DMCA notifications and cease and desist letters. The only time you should possibly ignore letters from lawyers and solicitors is when they're acting for a creditor or debt collection agency and may be on a phishing trip . These people like nothing more than people to ignore them and then escalate and hopefully get a judgement by default. Although this isn't a DMCA notice, they just reference the DMCA. Honestly, I'm sure they are counting on the confusion to scare people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I've got a suggestion. Just a little idea. Since Atari clearly does not convert the text, but instead sends out these kinds of communications without much thought based on having a download section one could easily set them up. It would have to be someone based in a country where they do business (USA). Create the illusion of providing all kinds of downloads, but break no laws. Provide no copyright materials, or use any logos that would infringe. Set up a site terms of service page where you expressly state that by accessing the site, should you send an email to the webmaster address containing phrases (use specific wording from their form letter) that you and your company agree to pay the sum of XXXX dollars, all legal fees to pursue it for defaming your character and making wrongful accusations. Even if you got no money, it would be funny as heck to catch them with their pants down. At the very least you would get a truck load of Flashbacks :D AX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 They've got nothing. If they had anything to complain about, they'd be a lot more specific than just naming a URL containing downloads for dozens of homebrew programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 It is obvious they have nothing but the fact is they have complained - that is the point. There is probably more to this than we know but a simple polite email would set them straight. Ignoring them just makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside and that they must be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Email them, telling them the only thing you have is a bad crack and then email them the Goatse main page picture.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1500 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 You should never ignore..............The only time you should possibly So when should we definitely maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuY Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) With the greatest of respect to everyone that has offered advice in this thread, this is a legal communication sent by (or on behalf of) senior counsel for a large multinational corporation. The best advice anyone could possibly give is to seek professional legal advice as to how to respond (or not respond, as the case may be). Edited August 11, 2011 by NuY 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Personally, I'd contact Curt Vendel since he has decent contacts at Atari and might be able to put it to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pps Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) I had a telephone call with a German lawyer yet. He told me to write them a email, where I should ask about the detailed issues also I will point them to the fact that there are many people also doing the same and it might be useful to ask, why there is in the build in ATARI BASIC a SAVE command, when it is not allowed to make programmes and to publish them. All the letter will be written in my home language since that´s the language they have to choose, as my whole webspace is under German laws. I´ll keep you informed, what happens. Edited August 11, 2011 by pps 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 With the greatest of respect to everyone that has offered advice in this thread, this is a legal communication sent by (or on behalf of) senior counsel for a large multinational corporation. The best advice anyone could possibly give is to seek professional legal advice as to how to respond (or not respond, as the case may be). I don't think you need the expense of a legal professional to know that the laws of the US don't apply in Germany. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 You should never ignore..............The only time you should possibly So when should we definitely maybe? When you read the whole sentence instead of taking out a few words to suit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pps Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 I don't think you need the expense of a legal professional to know that the laws of the US don't apply in Germany. Oh yes, that´s right - and I know that... But I want to be prepared. Not that I ignore this and in some years a German lawyer sends me post, that will costs me money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin_Lunchbox Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 [text clipped for brevity] I´ll keep you informed, what happens. Spitzenklasse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I don't think you need the expense of a legal professional to know that the laws of the US don't apply in Germany. Germany is a subscriber to the Berne Convention, along with the US, so it's not entirely as clear as that. Getting advice from a legal professional isn't a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Hmmm... since the symbol is just a Fuji symbol, I have to wonder if that's kinda like trademarking the letter A. It can't be legal. In order for them to trademark it, the word ATARI would have to be under it or people working in the Trademark department just wouldn't know the symbol is a Japanese Fuji. Perhaps we should send a few letters. Japan has to have been violating their trade mark for hundreds of years. James, Atari logo design has nothing to do with Fuji mountain. Fuji is an eventual nickname. At least this is what the designer told: http://www.atariage....5&CurrentPage=6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I don't think you need the expense of a legal professional to know that the laws of the US don't apply in Germany. You're thinking of China. Surely the US and Germany have copyright agreements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodByteXL Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Currently, this is an obsolete behavior by Infogrames. They are French and not really ATARI as we are common with from the good old times ... The only thing that might help is to make the CEO of ATARI aware of the facts, that we are fans of "ancient" ATARI machines from the former ATARI Corporation, which has not been baught by Infogrames as far as I know. They only baught the rights to all the software titles, which were marketed in before by e.g. Hasbro. Holding the Fuji logo high and doing a brand advertising for free is what we do, running our machines, websites, fora, writing software and doing new hardware. Therefore, if somebody in the US is capable of organizing a wave to splash ATARI and help them see the facts, it might give relief. I hope ATARIage has the capability to reach through to the CEO of Infogrames and make them aware of the behavior of their legal, who is doing bad advertising for the brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Isn't Nolan Bushnell member of company's board of directors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knubberrub Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I had a telephone call with a German lawyer yet. He told me to write them a email, where I should ask about the detailed issues also I will point them to the fact that there are many people also doing the same and it might be useful to ask, why there is in the build in ATARI BASIC a SAVE command, when it is not allowed to make programmes and to publish them. All the letter will be written in my home language since that´s the language they have to choose, as my whole webspace is under German laws. I´ll keep you informed, what happens. It's probably the best way to deal with this, IMO, even if it is just a random nasty e-mail etc with no real basis for legal action. Good luck with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I don't think you need the expense of a legal professional to know that the laws of the US don't apply in Germany. You're thinking of China. Surely the US and Germany have copyright agreements. It would still need to come from a German source. No American lawyer is going to haul you into court in Germany citing the Berne Convention. The letter means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphasys Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 The oddest thing about the e-mail is the following part: Atari's copyrighted works that have been infringed include: Atari 400; Atari 800; Atari 800XL; Atari 130XE They're obviously swinging a big hammer at air here. No software can infringe on hardware that's needed to run it on. They're 2 entirely separate entities. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I don't think you need the expense of a legal professional to know that the laws of the US don't apply in Germany. You're thinking of China. Surely the US and Germany have copyright agreements. It would still need to come from a German source. No American lawyer is going to haul you into court in Germany citing the Berne Convention. The letter means nothing. No, but I imagine the Euro-headquartered Atari SA might have an easier time / German division. Agreed, though... that letter is pure gibberish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 The oddest thing about the e-mail is the following part: Atari's copyrighted works that have been infringed include: Atari 400; Atari 800; Atari 800XL; Atari 130XE They're obviously swinging a big hammer at air here. No software can infringe on hardware that's needed to run it on. They're 2 entirely separate entities. At this point I'm agreeing with the statements along this line, and the ones about the Atari emblem being copyrighted. Efforts Metalguy made to modify the demos to remove the Atari emblem I think was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrop Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I am an attorney in New York and I have had experience litigating trademark infringement claims and also assisting in copyright litigation. The "cease and desist" letter basically says that the infringing material consists of access to "unauthorized console emulation software and/or unauthorized copies of game products (software) protected by Atari's copyright rights." Simply stated, it sounds like Atari thinks the web pages make available emulators and software copyrighted by Atari. I took a quick look at the web pages, and unless I am missing something, I did not see any emulators or copies of any of Atari's games or software. Atari has no rights in software written by third parties that run on Atari computers (unless the author gave away his or her rights to Atari). Regarding emulation, you may find the following case interesting: Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. v. Connectix Corporation. Do a search for that case and you will find some web pages that discuss it. The court held that copying a copyrighted BIOS for use in a PlayStation emulator did not constitute copyright infringement - at least under the circumstances in that case. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfdbg Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) I had a telephone call with a German lawyer yet. He told me to write them a email, where I should ask about the detailed issues also I will point them to the fact that there are many people also doing the same and it might be useful to ask, why there is in the build in ATARI BASIC a SAVE command, when it is not allowed to make programmes and to publish them. All the letter will be written in my home language since that´s the language they have to choose, as my whole webspace is under German laws. I´ll keep you informed, what happens. Excellent, and the recommended action. As said, this is serious and it's good that you consulted legal advice. *Not* responding is, as I already expressed, not the correct reaction. Writing a german email is correct, and asking them to identify the material is also correct since this moves the ball back to their team. Now they have to look *closely* and point at what they believe infringes their copyright - there's really nothing there. And even worse, they have to get a translation, so it creates expenses at their side. Probably they just shut up now. Just a second thought: I don't think it is a good move to say that others are doing similar things, whatever "similar" means. It is not a valid legal argument. Instead, just ask them *what exactly* you are accused of doing, this will give them enough trouble. Edited August 12, 2011 by thorfdbg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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