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Cave of Kroz updates


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#1 KnechtRuprecht OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:02 PM

Not sure if this deserves a new topic header, but I thought it more appropriate than posting Kroz progress under the Kroz demo release topic....

Anyhow, as of November 2011 a few things have happened:

- Valter Prette has kindly put together a short list of user suggestions for the game which I will go through over the next month or so. Most importantly, the puzzles need to be simplified and the controls need to be smoothed out. Thanks everyone who participated in that process and especially to Valter for taking the initiative and helping me out.

- I'm about 75 per cent finished putting together a windows-based Kroz level editor that will make the designing process much less arduous. I have to admit, even as its programmer, designing raw Kroz levels is scripting hell. The editor will allow for custom game designs and I may release it when Kroz programming is put to bed.

That's it for now. The winter months are here and I tend to spend more time programming when it's too cold to go outside but not cold enough to work on the backyard ice rink :)

-John

#2 revolutionika OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:56 PM

Thanks for the update.

Is the level editor user generated, right?

What about a ramdom level generator? is that even possible?

#3 atari5200dude82 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:13 PM

Will this game be on cart in the near future. Maybe complete in box.

#4 cmart604 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:36 AM

Excellent news John, thanks for posting an update. I'm really looking forward to this one! :love: I'm hoping for a COLD winter back east this year. :lol: Stay away from the outdoor rink, you'll just get a concussion like Crosby. Stay inside programming where it's safer and warm. :evil:

#5 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:59 AM

Excellent! I'll be willing to play-test a new version whenever it is ready.

-dZ.

#6 KnechtRuprecht OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:40 PM

Thanks for the update.

Is the level editor user generated, right?

What about a ramdom level generator? is that even possible?


It will be user-generated, yes. A random level generator is possible, but the level scripts would only be as good as the programming of the generator. The beast I'm putting together is more or less a quick hack to get the scripts out quickly.

#7 KnechtRuprecht OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:47 PM

Will this game be on cart in the near future. Maybe complete in box.


If it's good enough, I think so.

I'm currently in talks and I have support. But the game needs a lot of work before then. I've wanted to publish an inty game since I first got the system in the Christmas of 1981 (or was it 82?), but I'd hate to have something on cart that was below par.

#8 KnechtRuprecht OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:50 PM

Excellent news John, thanks for posting an update. I'm really looking forward to this one! :love: I'm hoping for a COLD winter back east this year. :lol: Stay away from the outdoor rink, you'll just get a concussion like Crosby. Stay inside programming where it's safer and warm. :evil:

A concussion might afford me time to program even more! :) That was a joke, knock on wood!

#9 KnechtRuprecht OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:52 PM

Excellent! I'll be willing to play-test a new version whenever it is ready.

-dZ.


Thanks as always DZ. Hopefully soon. Possibly mid-winter. I look forward to your comments.

#10 revolutionika OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:08 AM


Will this game be on cart in the near future. Maybe complete in box.


If it's good enough, I think so.

I'm currently in talks and I have support. But the game needs a lot of work before then. I've wanted to publish an inty game since I first got the system in the Christmas of 1981 (or was it 82?), but I'd hate to have something on cart that was below par.



By all means, take your time and make it perfect!

if/when you do release in cart form, you know you will have a good support base and it will sell good. Us intv fans are rabbid!

#11 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:30 AM


Excellent! I'll be willing to play-test a new version whenever it is ready.

-dZ.


Thanks as always DZ. Hopefully soon. Possibly mid-winter. I look forward to your comments.


By the way, I decided to play your old demo again this weekend, this time on my Intellivision I Master Component. I noticed that the controls weren't very responsive. I had a lot of trouble when attempting to go downward.

I thought it may have been my disc controller slowly dying, but when I tried other games, it seemed to work fine.

I wonder if there is some issue with the input decoding? Perhaps it's not as granular as it should be...

By the way, I'd be willing to share my 4-way disc decoding routine used in Christmas Carol if you're interested.

-dZ.

Edited by DZ-Jay, Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:32 AM.


#12 KnechtRuprecht OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:00 PM



Excellent! I'll be willing to play-test a new version whenever it is ready.

-dZ.


Thanks as always DZ. Hopefully soon. Possibly mid-winter. I look forward to your comments.


By the way, I decided to play your old demo again this weekend, this time on my Intellivision I Master Component. I noticed that the controls weren't very responsive. I had a lot of trouble when attempting to go downward.

I thought it may have been my disc controller slowly dying, but when I tried other games, it seemed to work fine.

I wonder if there is some issue with the input decoding? Perhaps it's not as granular as it should be...

By the way, I'd be willing to share my 4-way disc decoding routine used in Christmas Carol if you're interested.

-dZ.


Yes, it's a known issue and you've nailed the reason for it. The four directions currently require absolute values, which works well for the keyboard but not the disk. It's one of those things I set up quickly to get things going and it keeps getting pushed to the bottom of the list. I fully expected more comments about the movement.
That said, I do recall seeing something earlier about your controller routine. I filed it to the back of mind, meaning to check it out. Now that you've brought it up, I certainly wouldn't mind looking at it and possibly using it.

#13 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:02 PM




Excellent! I'll be willing to play-test a new version whenever it is ready.

-dZ.


Thanks as always DZ. Hopefully soon. Possibly mid-winter. I look forward to your comments.


By the way, I decided to play your old demo again this weekend, this time on my Intellivision I Master Component. I noticed that the controls weren't very responsive. I had a lot of trouble when attempting to go downward.

I thought it may have been my disc controller slowly dying, but when I tried other games, it seemed to work fine.

I wonder if there is some issue with the input decoding? Perhaps it's not as granular as it should be...

By the way, I'd be willing to share my 4-way disc decoding routine used in Christmas Carol if you're interested.

-dZ.


Yes, it's a known issue and you've nailed the reason for it. The four directions currently require absolute values, which works well for the keyboard but not the disk. It's one of those things I set up quickly to get things going and it keeps getting pushed to the bottom of the list. I fully expected more comments about the movement.
That said, I do recall seeing something earlier about your controller routine. I filed it to the back of mind, meaning to check it out. Now that you've brought it up, I certainly wouldn't mind looking at it and possibly using it.


Below is the actual 4-way "joystick" decoding routine from my P-Mach engine demo. You should be able to adapt it to your own game. It expects two parameters: the input disc bits from the controller register (complemented), and the last direction decoded. The decoded direction is returned as a four-bit vector.

The important part is the look-up table, which contains the heuristics of how to interpret the new input based on the last known decoded value. This allows the user to slide his thumb around the disc, and returns the expected value.

                ; Sprite Directions
CTRL_DIR        STRUCT  0
                ; Direction Vector
@@None          EQU     %0000                           ; Direction Vector:
@@Up            EQU     %0001                           ;     3   2   1   0
@@Right         EQU     %0010                           ;   +---+---+---+---+
@@Down          EQU     %0100                           ;   | < | v | > | ^ |
@@Left          EQU     %1000                           ;   +---+---+---+---+
                ; Diagonal Direction Marker
@@Diagonal      EQU     %1111
                ; Axes
@@AxisX         EQU     (@@Right OR @@Left)
@@AxisY         EQU     (@@Up    OR @@Down)
                ENDS


;; ======================================================================== ;;
;;  .JOYSTK_DECODE                                                          ;;
;;  Function to decode hand-controller input information and convert it     ;;
;;  into a 4-direction vector, like an old-fashioned Joystick.              ;;
;;                                                                          ;;
;;  INPUT for .JOYSTK_DECODE                                                ;;
;;      R1      Hand-controller input register.                             ;;
;;      R2      Sprite's current direction.                                 ;;
;;                                                                          ;;
;;  OUTPUT                                                                  ;;
;;      R0      Trashed.                                                    ;;
;;      R1      New decoded direction.                                      ;;
;;      R2      Trashed.                                                    ;;
;; ======================================================================== ;;
.JOYSTK_DECODE  PROC
                MOVR    R1,     R0                      ; Keep a copy of the raw input register
                ADDI    #@@__dir_tbl,           R1      ; Use the input as an offset into the Lookup Table
                MVI@    R1,     R1                      ; Get the Lookup Table value
                CMPI    #CTRL_DIR.Diagonal,     R1      ; Check if this is a diagonal
                BNEQ    @@__done                        ;   If not, we're done.

                ; Compose @@__diag_tbl look-up index:
                ;   +---+---+---+ //...
                ;   | A | INPUT |
                ;   +---+---+---+ //...
                ;     ^     ^
                ;     |     `----> The 2 Least Significant Bits of the input
                ;     `----------> The MOB's orientation axis
                ;                       0 = Vertical
                ;                       1 = Horizontal
@@__diag:       MVII    #@@__diag_tbl,          R1      ; Set up look-up table base address
                ANDI    #3,     R0                      ; Keep only the first two bits

                ANDI    #CTRL_DIR.AxisX,        R2      ; \_ Check the sprite's current axis of movement
                BZE     @@__vert                        ; /

@@__horiz:      ADDI    #%100,  R0                      ;   Horizontal  = %100
@@__vert:       ADDR    R0,     R1                      ;   Vertical    = %000
                MVI@    R1,     R1                      ; Get the new direction

@@__done:       WRET    .JOYSTK_DECODE

                ; -------------------------------------------------------------
                ; This Look-Up table was submitted by Joe Zbiciak as a better
                ; way to identify user intent from the raw controller input.
                ; I've modified it slightly to improve the decoding, and added
                ; heuristics for perfect diagonals.
                ; ---------------------------+----------------------------+----
                ;                            |     Bit #: 4 3 2 1 0       |
                ;                            | Direction: / < ^ > v    #  |
                ;                            +----------------------------+
@@__dir_tbl:    DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 0 0 0 0 0 -  0
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Down                   ; 0 0 0 0 1 -  1
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Right                  ; 0 0 0 1 0 -  2
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Down                   ; 0 0 0 1 1 -  3
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Up                     ; 0 0 1 0 0 -  4
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 0 0 1 0 1 -  5
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Right                  ; 0 0 1 1 0 -  6
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 0 0 1 1 1 -  7
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Left                   ; 0 1 0 0 0 -  8
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Left                   ; 0 1 0 0 1 -  9
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 0 1 0 1 0 - 10
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 0 1 0 1 1 - 11
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Up                     ; 0 1 1 0 0 - 12
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 0 1 1 0 1 - 13
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 0 1 1 1 0 - 14
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 0 1 1 1 1 - 15
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 1 0 0 0 0 - 16
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Down                   ; 1 0 0 0 1 - 17
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Right                  ; 1 0 0 1 0 - 18
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Diagonal               ; 1 0 0 1 1 - 19  << SE $13
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Up                     ; 1 0 1 0 0 - 20
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 1 0 1 0 1 - 21
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Diagonal               ; 1 0 1 1 0 - 22  << NE $16
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 1 0 1 1 1 - 23
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Left                   ; 1 1 0 0 0 - 24
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Diagonal               ; 1 1 0 0 1 - 25  << SW $19
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 1 1 0 1 0 - 26
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 1 1 0 1 1 - 27
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Diagonal               ; 1 1 1 0 0 - 28  << NW $1C
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 1 1 1 0 1 - 29
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 1 1 1 1 0 - 30
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.None                   ; 1 1 1 1 1 - 31

@@__diag_tbl:   ; Vertical:
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Left                   ; - - 0 0 0 - NW
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Left                   ; - - 0 0 1 - SW
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Right                  ; - - 0 1 0 - NE
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Right                  ; - - 0 1 1 - SE
                ; Horizontal
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Up                     ; - - 1 0 0 - NW
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Down                   ; - - 1 0 1 - SW
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Up                     ; - - 1 1 0 - NE
                DECLE   CTRL_DIR.Down                   ; - - 1 1 1 - SE

                ENDP


#14 revolutionika OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:35 PM

Any update?

#15 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 1, 2012 5:35 AM

Any update?


Isn't Caves Of Kroz an upcoming release from Elektronite?

Knecht, did the controller decoder work for you?

-dZ.

#16 revolutionika OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 1, 2012 10:34 AM

Yeah, I think it's listed a 2013 release. We all know how fast that will be here.

#17 vprette OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 1, 2012 3:30 PM

2013 :-)
be patient there are many titles in 2012

Edited by vprette, Sun Jul 1, 2012 3:30 PM.


#18 cmart604 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 1, 2012 4:59 PM

2013 :-)
be patient there are many titles in 2012


Valter, isn't D1K, D2K and Minehunter the 2012 releases for Elektronite or am I forgetting something?

#19 Intymike OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 2, 2012 5:07 AM

maybe there are a few surprises or he includes the releases from the other "companys".
Alltogether it will be the busiest year since mattel electronics times.

#20 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 2, 2012 5:11 AM

maybe there are a few surprises or he includes the releases from the other "companys".
Alltogether it will be the busiest year since mattel electronics times.


It's definitely a great year to be an Intellivision fan! Not only are there numerous new titles and re-releases coming out, but various new projects were started with great enthusiasm. We just know that 2013 and 2014 are going to be awesome years too! :)

-dZ.

#21 revolutionika OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 2, 2012 9:48 PM

Or...2013 and 2014 will be the drought years after all these games hit in one year!!!! (i hope not) :)

#22 theloon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 2, 2012 10:05 PM

Has anyone attempted to contact the original developer of Kroz (Scott Miller)?
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dukenukem

I'm sure he'd be delighted his early work is still inspiring people.

Also, the source has been released under GPL 2:
http://www.3drealms....s_freeware.html

Edited by theloon, Mon Jul 2, 2012 10:16 PM.


#23 revolutionika OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 2, 2012 10:38 PM

Maybe he shouldnt be contacted... :ponder:

#24 Games For Your Intellivision OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:35 AM

Bob Newstadt (A Blue Sky Ranger) told me that he played Carol at CGE and was very impressed with the control. Better than many of the original games. He said the game was very slick.

Kroz has been licensed (thanks Valter) and John has full freedom to do whatever he likes with the game that is based on the original.

I have been told that we can expect it to be ready by February 2013........we will start working on the game materials now. If anyone can suggest a good artist, or point me in the direction of original packaging/art, that would be appreciated.

#25 cmart604 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:21 AM

Bob Newstadt (A Blue Sky Ranger) told me that he played Carol at CGE and was very impressed with the control. Better than many of the original games. He said the game was very slick.

Kroz has been licensed (thanks Valter) and John has full freedom to do whatever he likes with the game that is based on the original.

I have been told that we can expect it to be ready by February 2013........we will start working on the game materials now. If anyone can suggest a good artist, or point me in the direction of original packaging/art, that would be appreciated.


Wow, that's very good news indeed! :thumbsup:




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