What's the deal with Star Castle 2600?

[Keatah]

So will the download link still work and be able to be purchased after the project is done?

[atarilovesyou]

This really is unique, this whole situation. First, that there would be almost $15,000 for this game simply blows me away. I liked Star Castle, but there's a lot of other homebrews I think are incredible. I didn't realize how much clout an ex-employee could generate behind the collectibility of a game, nor how popular Star Castle must be among 2600 fans (or Stella fans). People want the actual product, no doubt in my mind: considering that it's only a matter of time before the ROM is up on the web for free download, many people still prefer to get their carts the old fashioned way! I think that's great.

 

What I like is that programmers can now have some cash incentive to produce the highest quality game they can make. Another thing is that the game is COMPLETE...there's no waiting once the gears are in motion. It's not like somebody started a Kickstarter for something that is in the early stages: people don't want to have to pay for the possibility of getting something, they want it now.

 

My favorite homebrew is Medviel Mayhem. That game is just insanely good, yet even that wouldn't garner the dollars that Star Castle has so far (if marketed in the same way), and that's a shame. I'd much sooner pay $50 for that cart than a Star Castle, but that's just my taste. However, if I was a programmer out there who really wanted to make a nice return on my investment (time, mainly), I'd do my best to produce a winner right out of the gate.

 

The argument of doing something for the love or the money makes no difference to me, as long as the end result is a good game. Pac Man is an example of where the money trumped the game...greed won and we lost.

 

I can't really explain why so many people out there are so pumped for this cart, but good on him, I say. If there's a market for Star Castle, then there's surely a market for other great homebrews. I might even pick up a copy for myself, who knows?

 

And as a side note, I know of bands who are doing this same type of marketing...some are producing entire albums with the money fronted by Kickstarter, Indiegogo. And I know one in particular that is very close to their $15,000 goal...but that took a whole month, not a week! There's definitely something going on here that demands a closer look.

[iesposta]

it has come to my attention that an Atari 2600 cart project on Kickstarter was tried before in 2010. It was not successfully funded.

It is still a sore subject for many here, (Skull Island), because even though the goal was not reached on Kickstarter, many people pre-ordered and paid for vaporware here anyway. Their pre-order money was never refunded. True that this was an unfinished game/cart idea, where Star Castle is ready to mold, program, assemble, box and ship.

I also agree that this is a unique situation. Even D. Scott had doubts that the goal would be reached — his words at the start of this Kickstarter project.

 

I am still for supporting Atari 2600 projects on Kickstarter, it seems like a great way to produce something.

Would you back the Atari/Vec-Vox2 if it were a Kickstarter project? I sure would!

[Dan Iacovelli]

So will the download link still work and be able to be purchased after the project is done?

alredy told you after the kickstart is done it won't be up

[Keatah]

ohh..

[Keatah]

Perhaps people realize that old-style code done by those old 70's era programmers is better than the sloppy bloat done by kids today?

Edited May 1, 2012 by Keatah

[+D Train]

This really is unique, this whole situation. {snip}

 

Right. this situation is unique because of these conditions:

 

1) a former atari programmer

2) working with an antiquated system

3) successfully solves a supposedly (and notoriously) "impossible" problem

4) and springs a completed game on the public without warning

5) that is also in a hand-made transparent case with weird blinky lights.

 

for anyone who has played Star Castle, or read "Racing the Beam" or had an Atari at any point, this is a pretty compelling narrative. One could even say that the decision to:

 

6) withhold the project from the public, but then

7) "suddenly" (and surprsingly) decide to release it in an unusual fashion

 

furthers the narrative even more.

 

Kickstarter really rewards the compelling narrative; the projects that tell a good story and strike a chord seem to do very well; those that don't have a hard time getting funded. In the case of Star Castle, there are a lot of elements about the narrative that make it interesting, unusual and accessible to a wider variety of people than the standard hack or homebrew. Scott just seems to have hit the trifecta and I imagining that it will be hard (although not impossible) to replicate his success. Right now, for instance, there are former atari programmers trying to raise more money from a larger community for an retro-game with an adorable protagonist that would play on modern systems; unfortunately, they are not receiving the reception that they had hoped for.

[+Nathan Strum]

Actually, I'm pretty sure he's a 90's-era programmer.

[Keatah]

Here's why it isn't going anyplace:

1 -- I don't know what a Gubble is. I'm not sure I give a shit either.

2 -- It might or might not be completed. Let me know when it is and I'll think about it then.

3 -- After briefly looking at the kickstart page, I don't know what system this is for.

4 -- The storyline and premise seems complex. I have enough complex games already.

5 -- The element of Classicness is missing.

6 -- I wouldn't want to commit to $15 bucks now and forget about and be in the hole next year.

7 -- $15 is too much for a download. There is no PDF manual either.

 

As much as we all love to hate SC and star castle.. It does have some good stuff going:

1 -- It is an arcade game port to a home system we all love.

2 -- All sorts of Classicness surrounds it.

3 -- It is done by an old fart from back in the day.

4 -- It has been demonstrated and is apparently complete, ready to roll.

5 -- The funding is basically for the tooling and materials, we all know that is the small stuff.

6 -- It is authentic and not a clone or me-too type deal.

7 -- $10 sounds like a nice round number, but still too expensive for me.

 

And there you have it!

[Keatah]

Oh, BTW, if anyone wants to help me save up for the basic $10 option I'm more than willing to graciously and thankfully "accept" any contribution, no matter how small.

[2600 Forever]

Here's why it isn't going anyplace:

1 -- I don't know what a Gubble is. I'm not sure I give a shit either.

2 -- It might or might not be completed. Let me know when it is and I'll think about it then.

3 -- After briefly looking at the kickstart page, I don't know what system this is for.

4 -- The storyline and premise seems complex. I have enough complex games already.

5 -- The element of Classicness is missing.

6 -- I wouldn't want to commit to $15 bucks now and forget about and be in the hole next year.

7 -- $15 is too much for a download. There is no PDF manual either.

 

As much as we all love to hate SC and star castle.. It does have some good stuff going:

1 -- It is an arcade game port to a home system we all love.

2 -- All sorts of Classicness surrounds it.

3 -- It is done by an old fart from back in the day.

4 -- It has been demonstrated and is apparently complete, ready to roll.

5 -- The funding is basically for the tooling and materials, we all know that is the small stuff.

6 -- It is authentic and not a clone or me-too type deal.

7 -- $10 sounds like a nice round number, but still too expensive for me.

 

And there you have it!

 

You and Dan have got to be smoking the same shit.

[Numan]

it has come to my attention that an Atari 2600 cart project on Kickstarter was tried before in 2010. It was not successfully funded.

It is still a sore subject for many here, (Skull Island), because even though the goal was not reached on Kickstarter, many people pre-ordered and paid for vaporware here anyway. Their pre-order money was never refunded.

 

that's awful, has anybody contacted yuppicide in recent times?

[Keatah]

Smoking the same shit or not. It is the truth. Also, bad press is better than no press. It is good marketing psychology to build up some hate and then then convert it to goodness.

[Dan Iacovelli]

I don't think there is a thing blocking other from e-mailng you a copy of the rom and maual.

forver 2600: you talking about me?

[atarilovesyou]

it has come to my attention that an Atari 2600 cart project on Kickstarter was tried before in 2010. It was not successfully funded.

It is still a sore subject for many here, (Skull Island), because even though the goal was not reached on Kickstarter, many people pre-ordered and paid for vaporware here anyway. Their pre-order money was never refunded. True that this was an unfinished game/cart idea, where Star Castle is ready to mold, program, assemble, box and ship.

I also agree that this is a unique situation. Even D. Scott had doubts that the goal would be reached — his words at the start of this Kickstarter project.

 

I am still for supporting Atari 2600 projects on Kickstarter, it seems like a great way to produce something.

Would you back the Atari/Vec-Vox2 if it were a Kickstarter project? I sure would!

 

You nailed it: you need something that actually exists, and something with some mainstream appeal...or something that is going to be limited edition, lol...I see where this is headed, giggity!

 

With the amount of money already pledged, it might be the incentive for others to get motivated. Time is a rare commodity, though...who really has the time?

 

The thing I don't quite get is that the game has been played by very, very few people. That's a lot of faith, I'd say...so part of me thinks that the sheer collectibility might be a reason, however, just become something is rare (as we all know) doesn't make it valuable.

 

Anybody want my first issue of "Double Dragon", the comic?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

What I like is that programmers can now have some cash incentive to produce the highest quality game they can make.

IMO that's not a valid incentive in our case. I doubt anyone will start a serious project just for the money. All those great homebrews you see were done without looking for money. Their motivation was way different and much better: Fun and feedback!

 

So the opposite is true and we might see more slapped together bad games from people trying to gather easy money. N.E.R.D.S and The Last Ninja anyone?

Edited May 1, 2012 by Thomas Jentzsch

[accousticguitar]

I honestly don't see the appeal here. I played cd-w's version and loved it. I've never played the other one, so if I were going to buy anything (and there's a good chance I will) it will be the one that I know is good, not the one I can't try out first.

[+HatNJ]

I honestly don't see the appeal here. I played cd-w's version and loved it. I've never played the other one, so if I were going to buy anything (and there's a good chance I will) it will be the one that I know is good, not the one I can't try out first.

 

my feeling exactly !

 

I still do not see the claim of him making a Star Castle version as if it were the 1980's unless the technology and the knowledge of that era was used not modern PC's and the knowledge of programming techniques

that may or may not have been known back then and Stella (if used) for debugging Did HSW have multi core PC's or all the combined knowledge of the internet to aid in programming.?

 

I give credit for the efforts put in a flashy cart with LEDs blinking (did any Atari carts 30 years ago have that?) and programming a port made to show what couldn't be done then but can now , sorry no

 

Both Scott's and cd-w's are 2011-2012 ports of a 1980 game at least most of us can play test cd-w's version and know it plays well not just Youtube videos and blind faith with the credit card

[Dan Iacovelli]

I saw scots version played at my show so I know it works

if your a player I see what your saying hat,if your a collector then it a whole different story

[+Nathan Strum]

I give credit for the efforts put in a flashy cart with LEDs blinking (did any Atari carts 30 years ago have that?)

 

Not that I'm aware of. However, others have put LEDs in 2600 carts before.

[Numan]

I saw scots version played at my show so I know it works

if your a player I see what your saying hat,if your a collector then it a whole different story

 

Are you saying a player would not enjoy Scott's version?

[Dan Iacovelli]

a player would like scotts version but it would be out of the players range to buy

a collector on the hand would also like to play it but to the collector it would be

a colloctors item and played less.

[solidcorp]

I give credit for the efforts put in a flashy cart with LEDs blinking (did any Atari carts 30 years ago have that?)

 

Not that I'm aware of. However, others have put LEDs in 2600 carts before.

 

Very cool, do they flash with the game action or just light up? Either way the whole TRON setup is cool and well done.

 

CPUWIZ said that he's been doing it for years too, but I haven't seen any of his boards yet.

[atarilovesyou]

What I like is that programmers can now have some cash incentive to produce the highest quality game they can make.

IMO that's not a valid incentive in our case. I doubt anyone will start a serious project just for the money. All those great homebrews you see were done without looking for money. Their motivation was way different and much better: Fun and feedback!

 

So the opposite is true and we might see more slapped together bad games from people trying to gather easy money. N.E.R.D.S and The Last Ninja anyone?

 

I see what you're saying. I personally don't believe that Scott completed this game 'just for the money' (and I'm sure some here will disagree, but that's just what I think). After seeing this kind of response, though, I'm inclined to also believe that Kickstarter would be a much better way to market a game that's already made.

 

Again, I'll talk about my fave homebrew, Medivel (sic, lol) Madness. That's a game that I probably would have paid MORE than what it cost, because I enjoy it so much. If more homebrews were made in that style (Ladybug is also a great example) with a great looking cart, great manual and GREAT gameplay (key factor), then I'd be shelling out more money each year to buy them.

 

I realize it's a niche market, but if Scott raised almost $15k for one title, I think of possibilities beyond Star Castle. But other than the limited amount of programmers out there, one key factor that we don't see a lot of stellar homebrews is that nobody is going to spend that kinda time and not get paid for it.

 

But if a group of dedicated programmers came out with quarterly titles, marketed in this way, AND they were really awesome games...that might make a difference. 84 backers donated over $50 to get the physical cartridges, and from what I understand, once these carts are made, there will be no more (adding to the collectibility). That's a smart move, I'd say. For those who still want to support, they can do the digital download. And others will just rip it off the internet, might end up liking it, but by then it'll be too late to buy a collector's cart. All this, of course, hinges on the promise that once these carts are produced, no more will be made....someone mentioned this, but I'm not sure if it's true.

 

It sure beats a developer working for years, taking all the production costs himself and ending up with a basement full of unsold carts if they don't appeal to the masses. Target the collectors and the others will jump on board in other ways.

 

Just my opinions, of course. You know a lot more about the process of what it takes to develop and bring a game to market, and I wouldn't be so naive as to think just one example like Star Castle means all games could be done this way...but it's interesting to think about the possibilities.

[+Propane13]

One thing I'm curious about-- way early in this thread, there was potential discussion about contacting the owner of the rights to Star Castle.

With all of the publicity from the kickstarter page, a lot people know about this, even outside of Atari circles.

 

I'm wondering-- did those discussions ever happen? That was what I asked about before on this thread, but never got answered.

It seems it's not a big deal at the moment, but there is always inherent risk when releasing certain games-- that's why there are so many misspellings of Tetris out there.

 

-John