Chris Strong Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) I am posting this because it came up in another forum and the poster asked me to move it out so as not to clutter up the topic. One of my rarest carts is a prototype of Gremlins for the 800. I've never seen even a listing about it, and it's got to have been just before The Crash. The financial stuff is even less well known. You have a proto for the 8-bit gremlins? Is it a production label or just a lab label? I know there's artwork for the 8-bit box, but I've never seen the official 8-bit version myself (just a version made from the 5200 port). I have gremlins for 8-bit on disk (hacked) ...you sure someone did not just put it on cart and stick label on it? can we see pic please? Okay, yes I have an 8-bit Gremlins prototype. I got it in 2004 (I think, might be 2005). I got a number of ROMS that year from two different sources, most were in-company diagnostic programs, a BASIC-A prototype, manufacturing tests, etc. The manufacturing and in-house testing is one of the major areas of my collecting interest. One is "Floppy OS" which I have not worked out if it is an OS with floppy support in ROM, or the OS for a floppy drive. I had forgotten about it until now. Need to look into that... Anyway, in the collection from one ex-Atarian were a few games, including a 8-bit version of Gremlins. The version most of us have is a port from the 5200 ROM version. I have gremlins for 8-bit on disk (hacked) ...you sure someone did not just put it on cart and stick label on it? can we see pic please? Why on earth would anyone do that? Seriously, I know making ROM images of disk games is a big thing to do now, but back in 1983-4 when this was written, we were trying to get stuff off of ROMS and on to disk. I spent many hours trying to carefully insert a cartridge into my right-cartridge slot and read off the ROM to disk so I could put my cartridges away and run it of floppies. I finally added a switch to the enable and power lines on the right cartridge port to make it easier. We all set up nice disks with custom menus and all of our games. I never wanted to go back to cartridge; that is a recent thing from the new collector community. Besides, when you were trading games, it was hard to send that EPROM through the modem. Anyway, I know the source on this, I'm sure he got a copy from the developer at Atari. Piracy was rampant at Atari; this is the way most games leaked out. Rescue Mission (Behind Jaggi Lines) and Ballblazer being the two most famous ones that got pirated right out of the buildings. Besides, why would you not develop it for the 800 while you were doing it for the 5200 anyway? They are the same hardware, just make some minor changes for the I/O device. It would be crazy not to think that all 5200 software was also designed for (and frequently on) the 8-bit PCs. Now, my point in bringing it up is just that there is a LOT of this stuff out there, it's just a matter of finding it before it gets trashed. Twice now I've run across really rare 8-bit items, including a metal-cased 850 with an internal Atari property sticker and serial number 0008, from sources who were not aware of it's rarity, just cleaning out dad's crap from the garage. I found a prototype AMY chip in a box of Atari junk from an engineer's desk; had no idea what it was until I compared the part number to a spec document. This is the same way Curt has found a lot of his items. Just because we've not heard rumors about it or seen it in a catalog does not mean it does not exist. I have a dozen 3" binders of floppy disks still to sort through from an Atari HCD developer's office. I hope to get to it later this year. I'm not expecting the holy grail, but you never know. But it's mainly pirated games from other companies...and pirated APX software. Here is the image. I've deliberately blurred the label to protect the identity of the person who sold it to me (he's used that same type of label on other things he had at the time), as he asked me not to reveal him as a source of these cartridges for legal reasons...I don't know who he is worried about, but I gave him my word. I will say that If you went to the Atari Expo or CGE in the first few years, you've met this man. But it just says "gremlins" hand-written. The red EPROMS are the originals, the white ones are copies I made in 2007 when I made one for another Atari collector. Edited February 24, 2012 by Chris Strong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Strong Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Okay, since the emails have started, I want to point out that no, it is not for sale. Apparently most folks here don't know me by name, but I am a major 8-bit collector. I will sometimes sell or trade duplicates or spares, but I'm not interested in selling items I don't have in duplicate. I sold a 1090 a few years back and that got some interest/posts here, and I've traded a few prototype machines, but please don't ask me to sell items from my collection. If I wanted to sell it I would not have spent the last 30 years collecting it. When I want to sell something, I'll let everyone know. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Cool stuff. Anything different about it from the 5200 version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I knew the *real* Atari 8-bit version existed somewhere, as the 5020 and 8-bit versions of games were developed right after each other (once the game was done it was immediately ported to the other system). I'm not sure which system was the original development system and which system got the port however. Just because the 5200 version was the only one that got released doesn't mean it was the original system, although my gut says it was. John Seghers would be the one to ask I suppose. As I posted earlier, there's prototype artwork out there for the 8-bit version (take the 5200 artwork and put it on an 8-bit box, no surprise there). I think John Hardie may have it, if not he knows who does. Looks like there are four EPROMs there, are there two different versions of the game or are they for a different game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Okay, since the emails have started, I want to point out that no, it is not for sale. Any chance you could be persuaded to dump the ROM image and post it so we can see if there are significant differences from the 5200 version? (And apologies if you've already received 10,000 emails on the subject!) Regards, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Looks like there are four EPROMs there, are there two different versions of the game or are they for a different game? You must have missed it in his post, he says the two red ones are the originals and the white ones are copies he made in 2007.. And Chris, I 2nd the hope of a dump of it to see the differences..Thanks.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliecron Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 No sense in talking about it without the dump. I think OP is just showing off to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Strong Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yeah, I made a copy of the ROM and gave it out to a couple people in 2007. I was planning to do a CGE release style thing, make a bunch of my own up and the whole thing, but I have too much going on and there is just not enough interest in the Atari 800 at CGE. (I meant "World Of Atari" earlier when I referred to "Atari Expo", BTW). I had them promise me not to give it out so I could do a release, but I never got around to it. I did not know that the 400/800 artwork exists, I'd love to see that. As I said in the other thread, I am still unpacking from a move. I've not even seen this stuff since Feb-Mar 2009. It's only luck that I happened to have a box with about 10 of the prototype cartridges still out. It was left in my office and never got packed up with the Atari gear. I hope to get my workshop set up over the next couple months and then I can look into things like this again. There are other cool things in the box, a French version of AtariWriter and I think also SkyWriter. Plus several undocumented hardware testing ROMs, that are going to take some patience with a logic analyzer to figure out. Be patient with me for a little while and I will get back to it. I have a lot of things going on, and the Atari stuff has had to go down the priority list; although I am still collecting, I've not done any serious Atari development work since 1997 or so. I assume somebody has already worked out these backswitched cartridges and how the memory maps out? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Strong Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 No sense in talking about it without the dump. I think OP is just showing off to be honest. ...and this is why I stopped posting on these forums. I've got real jobs, real work to do. It's not even that significant of find; we've all got the 5200 version and it is just about the same thing. The differences will be very minor at best. It's interesting from a historical perspective, but not this jump-up-and-down Holy Grail thing. If this was a totally unknown item (say, a 400/800 version of Liberator) that would be one thing. But this is a variation on a 5200 game we've all played. If I wanted to show off, I would be posting photos of my collection or making links to overpriced auctions. I guess most of you must not have any other interests, or have really easy jobs. I have other things in my life besides the Atari collection. I love it, but I am also involved in a lot of other things. I work for one of the US Olympic teams and we are wrapping up our season. I have two engineering jobs and I work as a consultant. I just got married and I'm trying to make getting my Atari collection unpacked less of a priority than getting our life going. Perhaps I'll just send the dups to Bruce Carso and then you can all buy the cart from him--his prices are very reasonable--and leave me out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I think OP is just showing off to be honest. Maybe... I think he has some useful info that he wants to share while he has a moment. That and he's been collecting for 18+ years and has tons of stuff to share - "showing off" is the only way to get at all this one-of-a-kind info, so don't run him off. He's also the only guy I've ran into that out-bids me on ebay for some of the more collectible items. Chris Strong has my vote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliecron Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I think OP is just showing off to be honest. Maybe... I think he has some useful info that he wants to share while he has a moment. That and he's been collecting for 18+ years and has tons of stuff to share - "showing off" is the only way to get at all this one-of-a-kind info, so don't run him off. He's also the only guy I've ran into that out-bids me on ebay for some of the more collectible items. Chris Strong has my vote! Hey nothing wrong with showing off! I know I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 No sense in talking about it without the dump. I think OP is just showing off to be honest. ...and this is why I stopped posting on these forums. Don't let him get to you. Every board has guys like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Don't let him get to you. Every board has guys like this. It IS a thread about Gremlins, after all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliecron Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Oh I'm sorry, you wanted folks to continue to ask for the dump. Oh wow! What a rarity! Pretty please, if you ever find time from your super busy schedule of writing walls of text and providing photos to actually post the rom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Oh I'm sorry, you wanted folks to continue to ask for the dump. Oh wow! What a rarity! Pretty please, if you ever find time from your super busy schedule of writing walls of text and providing photos to actually post the rom? Are you on drugs or something? Please just stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Be patient with me for a little while and I will get back to it. I have a lot of things going on, and the Atari stuff has had to go down the priority list; although I am still collecting, I've not done any serious Atari development work since 1997 or so. No worries, I guess it's largely the same as the available version so no urgency. Would be great to see some more items of your collection if and when you have time, Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emc Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 No sense in talking about it without the dump. I think OP is just showing off to be honest. ...and this is why I stopped posting on these forums. I've got real jobs, real work to do. It's not even that significant of find; we've all got the 5200 version and it is just about the same thing. The differences will be very minor at best. It's interesting from a historical perspective, but not this jump-up-and-down Holy Grail thing. If this was a totally unknown item (say, a 400/800 version of Liberator) that would be one thing. But this is a variation on a 5200 game we've all played. If I wanted to show off, I would be posting photos of my collection or making links to overpriced auctions. I guess most of you must not have any other interests, or have really easy jobs. I have other things in my life besides the Atari collection. I love it, but I am also involved in a lot of other things. I work for one of the US Olympic teams and we are wrapping up our season. I have two engineering jobs and I work as a consultant. I just got married and I'm trying to make getting my Atari collection unpacked less of a priority than getting our life going. Perhaps I'll just send the dups to Bruce Carso and then you can all buy the cart from him--his prices are very reasonable--and leave me out of it. Less crying, more dumping, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Less crying, more dumping, please. I think this thread's been dumped on enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I hope you find some time to examine the disks. BTW, you mention Liberator... I remember Curt Vendel saying he had located a copy several years ago. Anything new on this? -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) There are other cool things in the box, a French version of AtariWriter and I think also SkyWriter. Not as cool as this Gremlins one - both have been already imaged and posted online. I assume somebody has already worked out these backswitched cartridges and how the memory maps out? I doubt it. Assuming it's a bankswitched cartridge, it would be the first one from the Warner era. The mapping might be the same as in the later XEGS cartridges, but it's not certain. I guess most of you must not have any other interests, or have really easy jobs. I have other things in my life besides the Atari collection. (...) Cry me a river. They're just asking what are your plans regarding this item - are you intending to dump the ROM chips and post them online, or do you plan to only sell the copies instead. Nobody really expects you to drop everything and do it now. Edited February 24, 2012 by Kr0tki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krypton85 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 That cartridge shell is interesting. I thought that style only came in grey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emc Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Less crying, more dumping, please. I think this thread's been dumped on enough. You crying too? Good - maybe the tears will make the Gremlin cartrdige multiply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qix_maniac Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I kind of agree with Chris. I'm very busy at my job at burger king washing windows and cleaning toilets...take this ebay bidder on ebay for example found the time to bid 216 times on an 810 drive ...and you know who you are!!! why the heck would you do that? eBay Auction -- Item Number: 220962481372 That is a lot of free time to click 216 times to increase your bid????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 That is a lot of free time to click 216 times to increase your bid????? I looked at the bid history, and it looks like 216 bids in 5 minutes... are you sure that's correct? Feels like a scam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 That is a lot of free time to click 216 times to increase your bid????? I looked at the bid history, and it looks like 216 bids in 5 minutes... are you sure that's correct? Feels like a scam Or someone testing an auto-bidder-bot ? Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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