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#26 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 17, 2012 12:17 AM

Right, I've tried destructive BS, swap BS and del, del, control H, and everything available in the various apps I've tried this evening.

So far, this is the list that doesn't work (well, they do but backspace doesn't work and it gives that funky "j'"),
I tried them all this evening::

Atari ST:
ANSITerm

STalker

TAZ

Windows:
HyperTerminal

What does work is telnet through the command prompt on any version of Windows I've tried, plus the shell under any Linux box I've tried. How odd is that?

Regardless, the common denominator is DarkForce.

BBS Express! ST Pro uses "MDM" files to send commands to a modem. When I switched to the Lantronix devices, I dropped using these files because it worked without them. There were 3; bootup.mdm, reset.mdm and F10.mdm. Bootup is used when you first start the BBS software, reset is used everytime a caller hangs up, and F10 just exits the BBS software, making sure any device is hung up and reset. The only one I still use is F10. That's what I know.

What I don't really know, and now has me wondering, is what the BBS software sends to the modem/Lantronix if no mdm files are in play.

Or is this still possibly some odd setting in the Lantronix itself?

I think I'm going to logon to Marius' BBS and ask him to send me his modem files and just see what settings he is using with his Lantronix...or maybe just PM him.

To be continued... :)

PS BTW Stephen, if you've not tried ANSITerm you should - it actually does a really good job of displaying ANSI on an ST. DarkForce looked about like it does under my Kubuntu box.

#27 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 17, 2012 3:39 AM

Hi Ron,

Good to hear from you here. I'm not at home right now (a few days off in my vacation address again) ...

The last weeks I have been very (!) busy with another Atari project, so I had not much time left for the BBS. I saw your conversation on my Board, but I did not find any time to respond there.

Sending you any software is not possible right now, since I'm not home... and one more thing: I'm using the Lantronix MSS100 not the UDS10.

But I can help you anyway.

You'd better try this first:
Start a terminal program on your Atari. Make sure your Lantronix accepts incoming calls, and let someone call in from outside.
When the connection is established you should be able to do a little chat-session. The remote caller on his terminal program, and you typing in your Atari ST terminal program.

The "J" thing has probably something to do with Line Feed. I guess carriage return/line feed is ctrl-M/ctrl-J.

I have something similar going on with ATASCII; when I use Atascii Graphics and I use the "CTRL-M" character in my Atasci Graphics (like I did a lot in my logoff screen) some Terminal programs do show after each ctrl-M sign a heart.
That is caused by a translation-problem due to wrong handshaking.

When two lantronix devices 'call' each other this does not happen. When I call my bbs with the Atari 800 emulator I do have the problem. It is rather strange.

The Lantronix MSS100 has two ports one can logon to. 2001 and 3001. I am not sure this is already possible with the UDS series. The one is RAW the other is telnet-handshaked. The RAW port does not have this problem. You could try to change port-forwarding settings in your router, so every caller is forwarded to the RAW port in stead of the telnet port.

But.... there is one but.... UP/DOWNLOAD is not working on the RAW port (for a working up/download there is this telnet-handshaking absolutely needed!)

So summary:

1. Try to make the possible clear without using the BBS software, but stick to a terminal program while testing.

2. Try to connect to the RAW port in stead of the interpreted telnet port (in MSS 100 this is port 2001, raw = 3001)

It is for 99% sure a problem with the Lantronix and incompatible handshaking. Good chance that it only happens with certain terminal-emulation (ANSI, VT100, but not ascii; although I'm not sure about that either).

Let me know how things are going. I'll respond this also in the thread btw.!

Greetz
M.

#28 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 17, 2012 3:43 AM

Oh ... now I read your message again (on my BBS, I'm logged on through my iPhone now, on my own bbs haha cool). I understand you do not get a backspace.

Probably backspace does work as soon as you hit CTRL_H right?

#29 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 17, 2012 3:51 AM

I know that ICE-T on Atari 8bit has the feature to define the behavior of 'backspace'... so it is a known issue.

In Unix/Linux terminals backspace do not work always... ctrl-H does.

I remember that months ago (before you changed your BBS) it already failed (backspace).

#30 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 17, 2012 8:20 AM

Marius - the main problem is when connecting to Darkforce BBS using a UDS-10 device, ALL keys you type add a j` and then display the key you type. This only happens when I connect to Darkforce. All other BBSes are working fine with the UDS-10, and every other method for connecting to Darkforce works. Odd!

I do have an MSS-1T micro server which I plan on setting up, since it does DNS. I will try to get it setup and tested sometime.

#31 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 17, 2012 10:49 AM

I understand you're on vacation - really didn't mean for you to stop that to even reply here :) You should go on and have fun! :D

No problem about the files either, any time you get back is good.

I don't think I need to do the Lantronix to Lantronix thing. Here is why, I can logon to the UDS's I have with any of these term programs.
There is no problem with backspace then, or any odd letters inserted. It's only after going through the Lantronix to the BBS.

On my Linux box, I've always used "control-H" to backspace. However, under Windows versions that still have telnet through the
command prompt, it all works fine, backspace and no weird letters at all.

Oh, keep in mind it's a UDS1100 that I'm using on the BBS, and a UDS10 that I'm using with my STacy to connect to it. It's not just
the UDS10 to UDS1100 connection that I personally see this on though. Under Linux, no weird letters but backspace doesn't work
right, and under Windows with Hyperterminal, no backspace plus it does give the weird letters.

We'll keep plugging at it... :)

#32 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 17, 2012 3:48 PM

When I'm home I'll try to connect with my Lantronix MSS100 to the BBS.

It's probably the handshaking problem.

Did you see the idea of the different ports? Does the UDS have two different ports (Raw and Telnet?) I'm really interested in what happens then...

And when you do not use the BBS software, but someone with Lantronix connects to your Atari ST terminal (hosted by a Lantronix)? Does this problem occur then?

#33 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 17, 2012 9:52 PM

Okay, I just went through the PDF/Manual.

The UDS1100 is single port, so that is out.

Have to get back to you on the Lantronix to Lantronix connection,
as soon as I get the chance...

Thanks!

#34 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 1:08 AM

Okay, I didn't do the full chat thing (I'm the only one awake at my house right now, son and wife are at work, 10yr old baby
girl in bed) so I did this... I had my UDS10 on my STacy call the UDS1100 on my Mega ST4, and just used the UDS10 to
logon by telnet to the UDS1100 using the "9999" option, thus not engaging the BBS software at all. Now at least while there,
could input any characters I wanted to with no extra "j'" and backspace/del worked just like they were supposed to.

Now, what conclusions, if any, can we draw from that?

#35 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 1:40 AM

Okay, for those of you who are wondering what we are rambling on about, here is what the funky extra letters look like.

Here is the login screen (note that's supposed to be "sysop"):

P5180002.JPG

and here is what it looks like when you're trying to type something in to the editor:

P5180014.JPG

Dog ugly, huh? :(

#36 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 1:42 AM

Oh BTW Stephen, here is what ANSITerm looks like with DarkForce.

It actually does a pretty good job on ANSI graphics.

P5180017.JPG

PS Sorry for the crappy picture, was in a rush!

#37 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 1:45 AM

Oh forgot to mention Marius, it also gives the same problems even with ASCII (plain text) emulation.

#38 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 2:01 AM

Okay, here are my current settings for the UDS1100, the unit hooked up to my
Mega ST4 and DarkForce:..

(maybe someone can spot something I'm overlooking!)

darklord@darkforce:~$ telnet 192.168.1.104 9999
Trying 192.168.1.104...
Connected to 192.168.1.104.
Escape character is '^]'.
*** Lantronix UDS1100 Device Server ***
MAC address EDITED
Software version V6.5.0.0 (070402)
Password :----
Press Enter for Setup Mode


*** basic parameters
Hardware: Ethernet TPI
IP addr 192.168.1.104, gateway 192.168.1.1
Telnet config password set

*** Security
SNMP is enabled
SNMP Community Name: DarkForce!
Telnet Setup is enabled
TFTP Download is enabled
Port 77FEh is enabled
Web Server is enabled
Web Setup is enabled
ECHO is disabled
Enhanced Password is disabled

*** Channel 1
Baudrate 19200, I/F Mode 4C, Flow 02
Port 00023
Connect Mode : 56
Send '+++' in Modem Mode enabled
Show IP addr after 'RING' enabled
Auto increment source port disabled
Remote IP Adr: --- none ---, Port 00000
Disconn Mode : C0 (Telnet Com Port Cntrl Enabled)
Flush Mode : 00
Terminal name: Press Return

*** Expert
TCP Keepalive : 45s
ARP cache timeout: 600s
Monitor Mode @ bootup : enabled
HTTP Port Number : 80
MTU Size: 1400
Alternate MAC: disabled
Ethernet connection type: auto-negotiate

Change Setup:
0 Server
1 Channel 1
5 Expert
6 Security
7 Defaults
8 Exit without save
9 Save and exit Your choice ?

#39 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 4:42 AM

It is very strange...

It looks (a bit) like async-baudrate, but I can't imagine that is the issue.

I have read the docs of that UDS1100 now, and I could not find anything strange so soon.

Perhaps it is not a problem of the host, but a problem of the caller side. So perhaps we should concentrate on the caller side, and not on the BBS side.

When I'm home (sunday) I'll call in with my MSS100.... I still can not find my PSU of my UDS10, so I can not test with that from my place.

It looks like the receiving side, can not interpret some control codes right.

I saw you did setup hardware flow control rts/cts ... what happens when you configure the BBS Lantronix with NO flow control?

#40 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 11:14 AM

Oh BTW Stephen, here is what ANSITerm looks like with DarkForce.

It actually does a pretty good job on ANSI graphics.

P5180017.JPG

PS Sorry for the crappy picture, was in a rush!

Cool - I assume it is also a flicker term like TAZ in order to get the 16 colours?

#41 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 11:19 AM

Okay, for those of you who are wondering what we are rambling on about, here is what the funky extra letters look like.

Here is the login screen (note that's supposed to be "sysop"):

P5180002.JPG

and here is what it looks like when you're trying to type something in to the editor:

P5180014.JPG

Dog ugly, huh? :(

Yeah - that is exactly what I get too. Only when calling your BBS, and only when calling it with the UDS-10. Windows Telnet, and APE on the Atari 8-bit work fine.

#42 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 12:48 PM

It is very strange...

It looks (a bit) like async-baudrate, but I can't imagine that is the issue.

I have read the docs of that UDS1100 now, and I could not find anything strange so soon.

Perhaps it is not a problem of the host, but a problem of the caller side. So perhaps we should concentrate on the caller side, and not on the BBS side.

When I'm home (sunday) I'll call in with my MSS100.... I still can not find my PSU of my UDS10, so I can not test with that from my place.

It looks like the receiving side, can not interpret some control codes right.

I saw you did setup hardware flow control rts/cts ... what happens when you configure the BBS Lantronix with NO flow control?


I've got a Wal-mart universal P/S on the UDS10 I'm using, seems to work fine. The person I bought it from couldn't find their original P/S and I got it for $20 so... :)

I already tried. I used flow control on for both UDS's, flow control off for both UDS's, and with 1 on and 1 off, then reversed that. Yep. :)
No difference...

I tried to find some setting in the PDF that would refer to extra control codes being sent or echoed back, but couldn't really nail anything down.

We'll keep on plugging away at it.

#43 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 12:52 PM

Cool - I assume it is also a flicker term like TAZ in order to get the 16 colours?


No - no flicker at all. Rock solid screen here.

- ANSITerm is a 100% ANSI VT-102 compatible terminal program that
supports full 16 colors, blinking text, with 80 columns.

Is how the docs describe it..

I can't actually see TAZ "flicker" here...can you see it on your setup?

Wait, never mind - I don't think I've actually tried TAZ with ANS, just
text and VT52. I'll try it later...

#44 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 1:01 PM

Windows Telnet, and APE on the Atari 8-bit work fine.


And add to that, telnet through a bash shell under linux (Kubuntu here). I just have to use control-H to backspace/delete.

#45 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 1:05 PM

There is one section in TAZ's docs that mention this:

String Translation

Modem strings and a few others (such as inactivity and macro
definitions) use the following characters to imbed special
functions:

^ This character is used to embed control characters. It
works with the characters @ through [ to produce the ASCII
values 0 through 27. Common ones are:

^M : Carriage Return
^J : Line Feed
^[ : Escape
^H : Backspace
^I : Tab
^G : Bell (annoying ping)

I'm looking at the " ^J : Line Feed" and wondering if it has anything to do with anything here...

#46 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 8:14 PM


Cool - I assume it is also a flicker term like TAZ in order to get the 16 colours?


No - no flicker at all. Rock solid screen here.

- ANSITerm is a 100% ANSI VT-102 compatible terminal program that
supports full 16 colors, blinking text, with 80 columns.

Is how the docs describe it..

I can't actually see TAZ "flicker" here...can you see it on your setup?

Wait, never mind - I don't think I've actually tried TAZ with ANS, just
text and VT52. I'll try it later...

OMG - thanks so much for the mention of ANSI Term. You have saved my eyes! Try TAZ with your BBS and you will have a seizure. 30Hz flicker (screen flipping to get the 16 colours). I have no idea how ANSI Term is doing 16 colours in medium rez mode without flicker?

#47 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2012 8:18 PM

OK - for what it's worth, j` is ASCII 106 96. Do those numbers mean anything?

Also, I left a message when exiting your BBS "Do the extra characters show". The BBS properly displays the message, so it does not seem to be recording the j` characters. It's echoing them back to the terminal though. Is it possible your BBS or your Lantronix is trying to echo control or error codes?

#48 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 19, 2012 1:50 AM

First of all:
Do not confuse the j and the J. There is a non-capital j shown in the screens above (in this thread). First I also thought: hmmm linefeed character, but the line-feed characater is a capital J. (Perhaps this IS the bug in the UDS1100 firmware, and should it be changed!)

If not... I think of this the BBS Lantronix 'thinks' that the connecting party is able to handle these control codes, so it sends them... but the connecting party can not handle them, so they are simply accepted like they are plain txt.

Like I wrote before btw: there is something equal going on with some telnet sockets on windows/mac using Atascii. As soon as the Atari sends a CTRL-M, the receiving party see's all kind of hearts after every ctrl M sign. It is an equal problem. (see screenshot). This is not Lantronix connecting Lantronix issue (!)

Posted Image

This is how this should look like:

Posted Image

One more thing: it also could be possible that the BBS Lantronix is in 'binary modus' while the receiving part is not. (Binary modus is the modus where file transfer is possible). I think this has 'everything' to do with handshaking-issues.

I did not re-read the whole thread, but are the UDS10 lantronix devices used having the newest firmware?

Greetz
M.

#49 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 19, 2012 7:01 AM

OMG - thanks so much for the mention of ANSI Term. You have saved my eyes! Try TAZ with your BBS and you will have a seizure. 30Hz flicker (screen flipping to get the 16 colours). I have no idea how ANSI Term is doing 16 colours in medium rez mode without flicker?


Probably (I'm guessing) some of the same techniques that games and software like Spectrum 512 and Photochrome use.

You have seen Photochrome pictures on the ST, right?

#50 DarkLord OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 19, 2012 7:04 AM

I did not re-read the whole thread, but are the UDS10 lantronix devices used having the newest firmware?

Greetz
M.


I'll have to check with the Lantronix site and match it up against what each of my UDS's has.





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