CC3 Finally sold out

[nukeshed]

What is a dumping adapter? Sounds dirty Seriously though, I really don't know.

 

Its for copying the rom from the cart to a file. AKA Dumping the cart.

[+JasonlikesINTV]

Ah, as opposed to simply downloading the ROM. I suppose that if you already own the cart, you then wouldn't have to mess with licensing issues possibly related to downloading...kinda like ripping a back-up of a CD you already own vs downloading a torrent illegally? Neat.

[+DZ-Jay]

Ah, as opposed to simply downloading the ROM. I suppose that if you already own the cart, you then wouldn't have to mess with licensing issues possibly related to downloading...kinda like ripping a back-up of a CD you already own vs downloading a torrent illegally? Neat.

 

Yes.

[+thegoldenband]

Keep in mind, BTW, that Intellivision Productions has distributed tons of these ROMs on a legally available compilation. Of course, I'm all for seeing carts dumped and variants identified! -- and actually, some of those Intellivision Lives/Rocks ROMs are versions that appear to have been tweaked vs. the cart versions, IIRC.

[intvnut]

actually, some of those Intellivision Lives/Rocks ROMs are versions that appear to have been tweaked vs. the cart versions, IIRC.

 

If you have any examples, it's probably worth posting details about.

 

I know for some games, such as Las Vegas Poker and Blackjack, I found a couple ROM variations among the released versions with my own cartridge dumper applied to my own collection as well as my dad's collection—the collection I grew up playing. :-)

 

For LVPB, the only differences I saw were the copyright date, and a 2 instruction sequence that gets invoked only during the stud poker games. I consulted David Rolfe on that exact instruction sequence and neither he nor I could determine a difference in actual game behavior in that change. My best speculation is that some macro in some header changed between the two builds, and its effect was inconsequential to the game.

 

The other variants I know of were actual running changes, such as the AI overflow fix in Checkers (along with shortening the "razz" for an invalid move), the steering changes in Auto Racing, the forward vs. reverse number entry in Math Fun, fast vs. slow tanks in Armor Battle, and so on.

 

As for other ROMs on Lives! and Rocks!, I seem to recall they found different prototypes of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Treasure of Tarmin (aka "Minotaur"). One of the protos had a crash-inducing bug, and a later proto fixed that. They couldn't release the final AD&D Treasure of Tarmin due to lacking the Dungeons and Dragons license, and so there are a couple different Minotaur versions out there.

 

Other variants I know about off-hand: (list not guaranteed to be exhaustive)

• Chip Shot Golf has two variants out there: one spells caddy as "caddy" and the other as "caddie." There seem to be other changes, maybe Intellivision 2 related.
  
• Two versions of Venture. I think one might be updated for Intellivision 2, but it seems to have more changes than the minimum required.
  
• Two versions of Basketball.
  
• Two versions of Super Pro Football. I think this one may have been a fix for Intellivision 2 also. Not sure.
  
• Two versions of Space Battle. I believe these are the fast and slow variants.
  
• Two versions of Slap Shot Hockey. I think this one may also have been a fix for Intellivision 2.
  
• Two different versions of Royal Dealer. I think this one was a more general bug fix.
  
• Two variants of Q-Bert, one of which I think may just be a bogus dump
  
• Two variants of Popeye, one of which I think may just be a bogus dump
  
• Two variants of Mr. BASIC Meets Bits 'n Bytes, one of which I think may just be a bogus dump
  
• Two versions of Motocross. Not sure what differs, actually.
  
• Math Fun: Forward vs. Reverse digit entry.
  
• Lock'n'Chase: 6K original release, 6K original release padded with 2K of zeros, and 8K "improved movement" running change release.
  
• Two versions of Golf (the original Golf, not SuperPro). I have no idea what's different, but there are significant differences in the ROMs.
  
• Two versions of Empire Strikes Back. One has title screen music and the other does not.
  

All that said, I don't know of any ROMs that Intellivision Productions actually tweaked. Rather, they likely released a variant that may have been uncommon. And there's a few pairings you won't find in the wild, such as Hover Force (the released version) versus Hover Force 3-D (the unreleased prototype version).

 

EDIT: For the variants I list as potentially bogus dumps, the ROM images are largely identical, except a couple bits that differ. Unless it's confined to the magic bit in the cartridge header that overrides the Intellivision 2 lockout, I assume the bogus dump it a misread of the ROM.

Edited October 1, 2012 by intvnut

[Intymike]

The Mattel version of Motocross doesn´t run on PAL machines, the INTV version does (I assume that this problem was fixed by Mattel but had no more release in late 1983).

[+DZ-Jay]

The other variants I know of were actual running changes, such as the AI overflow fix in Checkers (along with shortening the "razz" for an invalid move), the steering changes in Auto Racing, the forward vs. reverse number entry in Math Fun, fast vs. slow tanks in Armor Battle, and so on.

 

Wow, the memories... I recall playing my brand new Auto Racing cart on a Christmas Morning and trying to wrap my mind around the "realistic" steering. I remember that the manual made a note of this, but it still felt weird and unintuitive, yet I played it and enjoyed it. I just moved and twisted my arms to orient the controller with the car. (During moments of high excitement, I'd still end up steering wrongly into a building, yet I did better than my Father.)

 

The same with Math Fun. I loved that game (I was a geeky, maths-loving kid), and I "got" the reverse number entry from the beginning: my brain worked in the way the app intended: adding numbers right to left, just like on paper. My sister, on the other hand, thought it was weird, and didn't want to play with me (she also didn't like maths, and let's just say that 8 or 9 year-old DZ was not a gracious winner).

 

I actually prefer the reverse-entry.

 

Regarding the tanks in Armor Battle, I can't really say. Although I remember my version had slow tanks, I haven't seen the variant to compare. However, considering that I had these games pretty much when they came out first, chances are I only know their "original" variants.

 

I'll have to check the copies I own now to see which ones they are. They are probably the old variants also, for most of the lot I bought had some very old stock, with full-colour manuals for some of the games and stuff.

 

Thanks for the memories!

 

-dZ.

Edited October 1, 2012 by DZ-Jay

[+thegoldenband]

Fascinating post, intvnut! I really enjoy reading about the details of these variants; too often different versions of a ROM just get marked "alternate" and that's it.

 

If you have any examples, it's probably worth posting details about.

 

I was going off memory from the sadly-now-defunct Decle site (Archive.org cache here). That said, it appears that the only one explicitly named as a BSR "tweak" is Astrosmash (to enable Meteor), and even that's ambiguously worded, so my mistake: while there are variants only available on the CDs (like the AD&D games), none of them are specifically named as having been re-coded for the discs.

 

BTW Decle credits you heavily for your help/research, so I feel a bit like I'm quoting Exodus at Moses here.

 

As for other ROMs on Lives! and Rocks!, I seem to recall they found different prototypes of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Treasure of Tarmin (aka "Minotaur"). One of the protos had a crash-inducing bug, and a later proto fixed that. They couldn't release the final AD&D Treasure of Tarmin due to lacking the Dungeons and Dragons license, and so there are a couple different Minotaur versions out there.

 

Just as a side note, it's always seemed odd to me that they had license-free versions of the AD&D games just sitting around. Is it possible that the prototype claim is just a fib, and they edited out the AD&D material?

 

Other variants I know about off-hand: (list not guaranteed to be exhaustive)

• Two versions of Basketball.

 

Decle has that as a suspected change to the scoring-probability routine.

 

• Two versions of Space Battle. I believe these are the fast and slow variants.

 

Must be, I've seen both in action and the difference is clear.

 

• Two versions of Slap Shot Hockey. I think this one may also have been a fix for Intellivision 2.

 

Agreed, one of my copies would boot on the Inty 2 and the other wouldn't.

 

• Two versions of Golf (the original Golf, not SuperPro). I have no idea what's different, but there are significant differences in the ROMs.

 

Ah, that's the one where you can press ENTER to see the remaining distance to the hole. A nice tweak that improves gameplay, actually, and it's the only case where I've chosen the INTV version of a Mattel game to keep for my collection.

 

All that said, I don't know of any ROMs that Intellivision Productions actually tweaked. Rather, they likely released a variant that may have been uncommon. And there's a few pairings you won't find in the wild, such as Hover Force (the released version) versus Hover Force 3-D (the unreleased prototype version).

 

Lock 'N' Chase 8K is another one that's never been found in the wild, right? BTW my hunch (as I said in the other thread) is that there will turn out to be a(nother) Hover Force variant that explains the problems some folks have with this cart on certain consoles.

[intvnut]

Fascinating post, intvnut! I really enjoy reading about the details of these variants; too often different versions of a ROM just get marked "alternate" and that's it.

 

I will warn that I was going largely off of memory, so I can't say it's 100% accurate.

 

I was going off memory from the sadly-now-defunct Decle site (Archive.org cache here). That said, it appears that the only one explicitly named as a BSR "tweak" is Astrosmash (to enable Meteor), and even that's ambiguously worded, so my mistake: while there are variants only available on the CDs (like the AD&D games), none of them are specifically named as having been re-coded for the discs.

 

Well, the Meteor ROM has a grey menu screen, whereas if you modify the released Astrosmash, I believe it has a black menu screen. There seem to be rather noticeable differences between the two ROMs beyond the minor tweak necessary to enable Meteor inside the released Astrosmash. This tells me that the Meteor on Lives! is indeed a pre-release prototype.

 

BTW Decle credits you heavily for your help/research, so I feel a bit like I'm quoting Exodus at Moses here.

 

*chuckle*

 

Just as a side note, it's always seemed odd to me that they had license-free versions of the AD&D games just sitting around. Is it possible that the prototype claim is just a fib, and they edited out the AD&D material?

 

It doesn't to me. It sounded like the lawyer wrangling was difficult with these titles. Just witness the final names they ended up with—Advanced Dungeons and Dragons* CARTRIDGE. They probably left the working titles in place right up until they got the notarized certified letter dictating the exact capitalization of CARTRIDGE to put it in.

 

re. basketball

 

Decle has that as a suspected change to the scoring-probability routine.

 

Ah, yes, I remember hearing that now.

 

Lock 'N' Chase 8K is another one that's never been found in the wild, right? BTW my hunch (as I said in the other thread) is that there will turn out to be a(nother) Hover Force variant that explains the problems some folks have with this cart on certain consoles.

 

For a while I bought every Lock'n'Chase I came across to put it through my dumper. So far, I haven't found one. Didn't INTV release a version? I don't think I've seen an INTV release personally, but I think they did release one, so maybe it's the 8K version?

[+thegoldenband]

Well, the Meteor ROM has a grey menu screen, whereas if you modify the released Astrosmash, I believe it has a black menu screen. There seem to be rather noticeable differences between the two ROMs beyond the minor tweak necessary to enable Meteor inside the released Astrosmash. This tells me that the Meteor on Lives! is indeed a pre-release prototype.

 

Somehow that's oddly disheartening for the future -- I liked to imagine that the BSRs were still tinkering with the old ROMs (rather than releasing prototypes as-is), which in turn suggested that new releases would be more likely.

 

It doesn't to me. It sounded like the lawyer wrangling was difficult with these titles. Just witness the final names they ended up with—Advanced Dungeons and Dragons* CARTRIDGE. They probably left the working titles in place right up until they got the notarized certified letter dictating the exact capitalization of CARTRIDGE to put it in.

 

Fair enough, though by the time of Tarmin I might have expected a placeholder AD&D reference on the title screen. Of course, if development on one or both games started well before the licensing deal with TSR, then...

 

For a while I bought every Lock'n'Chase I came across to put it through my dumper. So far, I haven't found one. Didn't INTV release a version? I don't think I've seen an INTV release personally, but I think they did release one, so maybe it's the 8K version?

 

Yes, I've had at least one copy of the INTV release pass through my hands. Unfortunately it was sealed (so I couldn't test it) and I've since sold it, but I get the impression that it's reasonably common. Can anyone else chime in on this?

[+DZ-Jay]

Somehow that's oddly disheartening for the future -- I liked to imagine that the BSRs were still tinkering with the old ROMs (rather than releasing prototypes as-is), which in turn suggested that new releases would be more likely.

 

 

 

Fair enough, though by the time of Tarmin I might have expected a placeholder AD&D reference on the title screen. Of course, if development on one or both games started well before the licensing deal with TSR, then...

 

 

 

Yes, I've had at least one copy of the INTV release pass through my hands. Unfortunately it was sealed (so I couldn't test it) and I've since sold it, but I get the impression that it's reasonably common. Can anyone else chime in on this?

 

I bought a Lock 'N' Chase from Keith at CG Expo, one of the ones he said he "found" from an old stash. The box and manual look cheap, so I suppose it's an INTV production. It's opened, but I can't tell off the top of my head if it is what you guys are looking for.

 

I can play it later today and give more details...

 

-dZ.

[Intymike]

I bought a Lock 'N' Chase from Keith at CG Expo, one of the ones he said he "found" from an old stash. The box and manual look cheap, so I suppose it's an INTV production. It's opened, but I can't tell off the top of my head if it is what you guys are looking for.

 

I can play it later today and give more details...

 

-dZ.

 

one...mhhh...two words: collapsing Lupin.

 

But my opinion is, it never made it into the real game...it´s only in the 1983 demo cart.

[+DZ-Jay]

one...mhhh...two words: collapsing Lupin.

 

But my opinion is, it never made it into the real game...it´s only in the 1983 demo cart.

 

Hum... Is that what I'm looking for? I'll check it out later today, but the last time I played it, I didn't notice it do that. However, I wasn't paying attention.

 

-dZ.

[pimpmaul69]

Hum... Is that what I'm looking for? I'll check it out later today, but the last time I played it, I didn't notice it do that. However, I wasn't paying attention.

 

-dZ.

its a collapsing lupin when he dies i think

[IntellivisionDude]

its a collapsing lupin when he dies i think

 

??????????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Intymike]

Yes something like this.

[+DZ-Jay]

its a collapsing lupin when he dies i think

 

OK, I played it and... No: no collapsing Lupin. He just stands there, wiggling his feet when he dies, until respawning.

 

[Games For Your Intellivision]

The easiest way to tell if it is the 8k version is to look at the copyright screen....if it has a proper copyright symbol, it is the bigger version. I have had a number of Lock N Chase's from INTV Corporation and "Intellivision Inc." and none of them have been the 8 k version.

[TrekMD]

I'll check this out. I have two roms for Lock'N'Chase (one says 6K the other 8K) to see if the 8K does have the different death animation. So far, I'm loving the CC3. I have been able to play the Coleco games that were not supposed to work on the Intellivision II without problems.

[Intymike]

I'll check this out. I have two roms for Lock'N'Chase (one says 6K the other 8K) to see if the 8K does have the different death animation. So far, I'm loving the CC3. I have been able to play the Coleco games that were not supposed to work on the Intellivision II without problems.

 

The 8k ROM version was done by David. It was not released on cart.

 

http://www.intellivision.us/roms/roms.php

[SoulBlazer]

There seems to be a lot of controversy about the 8k version of Lock n' Chase. The official web site of the BSR's says they made a running change to the game and released the 8k version as the original one sold out. Perhaps that was the intent, but the fact no one has found any in the wild is suspecious.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

David had nothing to do with the 8k version which was taken from a T-card....he was simply distributing it