treasure of tarmin 'sequel' of sorts on xbox live indie channel

[roberto]

It's funny to talk about this game in detail for me now simply because, from my perspective, it is old news. The game was completed in mid-February, then had a couple of issues discovered in peer review that had to be fixed, then had to wait even longer as 'Dream Build Play' kept a lot of people from reviewing games for release. In those three-four months I'd completed two other games and am currently working on a fifth.

 

I know, at least mechanically, a lot of what went into Tarr-Minos was a reaction to what I thought was lacking in my first XNA game, 'LCD Dungeon System'. In that game nothing apart from the combat dice rolls was random. This meant it was a quick experience that wasn't worth revisiting. The randomization in Tarr-Minos wasn't just a reflection how Tarmin worked, but to address that specific issue with LCDDS. To me, it felt fun to never know exactly how any one game of Tarr-Minos would go, and I enjoyed the challenge. I think once something is out in the wild and you start getting feedback from other people is when you start second guessing your design decisions.

 

It is also a bummer when you discover those flaws you didn't catch before release, and that people are having experiences that didn't correspond to your expectations. Apart from the French (who also showed the biggest love for LCD Dungeon System –I have no explanation), most websites that pay attention to the Xbox Indie channel have expressed disappointment if not hatred for the game (NeoGAF am cry). Critical reaction isn’t something you can do much about, though. Sometimes, to pull a quote from Penny Arcade, you just have to look at them and say, ‘it’s not for you!’

 

Akito,

 

i was looking for your game tonight but it doesn't show up in my Indie games section. The alphabetical list goes from "Ghost Mine" straight to "GHXYK2" with no trace of "Ghosts of Tarr Minos" in between...

Any possible reason why it's not available over here (Singapore)?

 

Anyway, keep up the good work!

[Akito01]

 

 

Akito,

 

i was looking for your game tonight but it doesn't show up in my Indie games section. The alphabetical list goes from "Ghost Mine" straight to "GHXYK2" with no trace of "Ghosts of Tarr Minos" in between...

Any possible reason why it's not available over here (Singapore)?

 

Anyway, keep up the good work!

 

Sorry, total oversight on my part. When I first started putting games up for peer review, I was under the misapprehension that when you submit games for publication in non-English countries, they had to be localized for that language. Once I leanred otherwise, I went back to manually check the boxes for other countries, but Singapore got missed. I corrected that now, and so hopefully the game should now appear in the Singapore marketplace in the next 24hrs.

[+wongojack]

Bumping this because I recently discovered GoTM and was thrilled to see such a lovingly re-created version of Tarmin. I also noticed another game of yours (with the help of xboxindies.com) called "Space Egypt" which is in the same Inty style. Looks like Tutankamen . . .

 

I thought when I saw the game that people who love Minecraft clones probably just wouldn't get it - hence the low rating. But it really jumped out for me. I typically search for the keyword "retro" to find old-style games and browse xboxindies to fill in the blanks. If you make more games in this style, please let us know or use some keywords to identify it.

[+DZ-Jay]

Nice find... Is there a link to a video or screenshots that you can offer?

[+wongojack]

@DZ-Jay - How bout this: http://www.xboxindies.com/game/ghosts-of-tarr-minos

[+Gemintronic]

Stuff like this keeps me thinking about a Treasures of Tarmin type game for the 2600. This game NEEDs to stay relevant. It's awesome!

[+Lathe26]

What it comes down to is that some of us are trying to establish good relations with Intellivision Productions and, well… NOT get sued. We want to go on making more games in the future.

 

Carl, I would really like to educated about the legal concerns of developing for the Intellivision (in general, not tied specifically to the Tarmin sequel). I'm asking because I have some potential Intellivision projects in mind but don't want to step on anyone's toes. Under what circumstances would it be necessary to get permission? Here's a couple theoretical examples:

1. Someone takes the ROM for an old 2-play game (ex: Armor Battle) and adds AI to it so that a single player can go up against the computer (ex: Super Pro Championship Armor Battle). I very much suspect permission would be necessary.
2. Someone creates a new game written from scratch. Only the box and manual state "for the Intellivision" so people know what console it is for. I am suspecting that permission would not be necessary, but I could be wrong.

Feel free to either reply here or just PM if you prefer private / one-on-one discussion on this topic. Thanks.

[+DZ-Jay]

 

Carl, I would really like to educated about the legal concerns of developing for the Intellivision (in general, not tied specifically to the Tarmin sequel). I'm asking because I have some potential Intellivision projects in mind but don't want to step on anyone's toes. Under what circumstances would it be necessary to get permission? Here's a couple theoretical examples:

1. Someone takes the ROM for an old 2-play game (ex: Armor Battle) and adds AI to it so that a single player can go up against the computer (ex: Super Pro Championship Armor Battle). I very much suspect permission would be necessary.
2. Someone creates a new game written from scratch. Only the box and manual state "for the Intellivision" so people know what console it is for. I am suspecting that permission would not be necessary, but I could be wrong.

Feel free to either reply here or just PM if you prefer private / one-on-one discussion on this topic. Thanks.

 

Lathe26,

 

Here's the skinny on intellectual property rights: if someone else made it, they own the rights to copy it (which is where the term copyrights comes from). Copying extends to publishing, selling, distributing. The rights also include derivative works. These rights are exclusive, unless the owner grants explicit permission otherwise.

 

There are certain exceptions to this, some of the common ones extend to what is called fair use. Fair use includes reproducing parts of a work for satirical purposes (think MAD Magazine parody or a Saturday Night Live sketch).

 

So how do you know if something is protected by copyrights? Easy, if you didn't create it yourself, and it doesn't explicitly say it is in the public domain, then it probably is. That means that if you want to copy it or create a derivative work from it, you'll have to ask permission.

 

In the case of your example #1, that someone is making a derivative work, and so it is a violation of copyrights. Note that this does not mean that a work has to be created from whole-cloth every time. We're all exposed to the world, and so we are influenced by everything we sense around us. However, a second work must be significantly new, contain significantly different content, and no content from the original (with some very few exceptions), in order to be classified as a new work and not a derivative.

 

Sometimes this is clear-cut and black and white: Someone photocopies a Harry Potter book, changes the name of Hogwarts to Hogwash, and then renames the title to "Parry Hotter and the Wizard's Pebble." It's still the same story.

 

Sometimes it is more nuanced: Someone takes the Harry Potter story, changed the names of the characters and locations, rearranged some of the scenes, removes a couple of them and adds a few new ones. Then calls it something completely different like "I Was A Teenage Wizard."

 

Some people don't understand that this may still violate intellectual property rights. And some others hide behind a so-called "gray area" curtain of purported ambiguity.

 

However, the reality is that the only one who has the final say on this is a court judge. These issues are handled on a case-by-case basis, so precedence may not necessarily apply. Ultimately, it means that you are always in danger of a lawsuit, and that the only way to assert your case is by going to court.

 

 

There's another kind of intellectual property rights called Trademarks. These are names used in trade and commerce, brands. You can easily recognize these by the symbols ® and ™, which stand for "Registered mark" and "Trade Mark," respectively. When you see those symbols next to a brand, it means that someone registered the brand for their exclusive use in trade. No one else can use it within the context of the trade for which it was registered.

 

The Intellivision® brand is a registered mark, which means that nobody can use it for anything to do with video games, entertainment content, and perhaps some other industries that may have been included in the registration. Advertising products under the Intellivision® brand obviously violates Intellivision Productions, Inc.'s intellectual property rights, and they will most likely sue the perpetrator.

 

However, advertising products made to be use in connection with other products under the Intellivision® brand is a more nuanced scenario. This is your example #2.

 

It is nuanced, because by mentioning the Intellivision® brand you may cause confusion as to the real relationship between your product and theirs, or suggest that your products are part of the brand. To the reasonable person, seeing the phrase "for the Intellivision" may imply that it is an actual Intellivision Productions, Inc.'s product, or that it somehow was vetted and approved by them, which could dilute their brand or affect it negatively in case your product is not really that good.

 

This is what the Trade Mark is intended to avoid.

 

You can easily avoid this confusion by unambiguously stating the relationship between your product and the brand, which is to say that there is none. So somewhere in your packaging, where it is visible, you should include something to the effect of

 

Intellivision® is a registered mark of Intellivision Productions, Inc. This product and Lathe26 are in no way affiliated with Intellivision Productions, Inc.

 

I'm sure you have seen similar notes in other sorts of products.

[+DZ-Jay]

P.S. Know that I am not a lawyer, so don't consider my comment to be legal advice in any way. Also know that for the purpose of copyright and trade marks, content is not only words, but involves any product of a creative effort. This includes, among other things, words, code, artwork, game-play rules, characters, specific story plot and themes, etc.

 

There's a lot of information on the U.S. government's copyrights and patent and trademark office pages. Like any other prudent endeavor, when in doubt, ask a lawyer.

 

-dZ.

[+Lathe26]

Thanks for the explanation, DZ-Jay.

[Flojomojo]

Hauling my 360 out of mothballs, looking forward to trying this. Thanks for making what looks to be a terrific homage!

[IntellivisionDude]

Looks like i may be late to the party on this one. Tried to download it just now to my 360 and kept getting an error saying. Looks like you found a glitch in the system.

[Flojomojo]

I got that message when trying to buy it (one dollar!) from Safari. The transaction went through when I used Chrome instead.

[IntellivisionDude]

I got that message when trying to buy it (one dollar!) from Safari. The transaction went through when I used Chrome instead.

 

The funny thing is, i got the error when i was using Chrome. lol

 

But i did eventually purchase and download it successfully when using a back up browser (Comodo Ice Dragon)

[+wongojack]

Confused . . . . Are you guys purchasing from a computer it to play at a future date on 360? Is there a PC version of this somewhere now?

 

 

BTW, I've heard of this browser that Microsoft likes. It lets you EXPLORE the INTERNET.

 

 

 

Edit - that was post 777 I feel lucky!

[IntellivisionDude]

Confused . . . . Are you guys purchasing from a computer it to play at a future date on 360? Is there a PC version of this somewhere now?

 

 

BTW, I've heard of this browser that Microsoft likes. It lets you EXPLORE the INTERNET.

 

Ya i purchased it from the website and that downloads it to my Xbox 360. It's an Xbox marketplace game.

[Flojomojo]

Confused . . . . Are you guys purchasing from a computer it to play at a future date on 360? Is there a PC version of this somewhere now?

 

 

BTW, I've heard of this browser that Microsoft likes. It lets you EXPLORE the INTERNET.

Yes, it's easier to search the Xbox store from a real keyboard.

 

No, I don't like or need Internet Explorer, because it's not 1999 anymore.