Atari Book - Countdown clock has started

[Turbo Outrun]

It is not 4 months past due, we have always been up front and given planned released dates, never firm dates. There's just too many variables in self-publishing to give an exact date. We've given updates where we thought we were ready to go only to have things get pushed back, but we can't help that if people have chosen to interpret that differently. Likewise we've been far more accessible than any publisher or self-published author normally is, via here, facebook, constant emailed queries, and more. If there's something important to update, we do. If there's not, we won't. It is being worked on, and as some of the AA members who live in the Milwaukee area can attest - I've got the dark rings under my eyes to prove it.

 

 

 

My point exactly. People wait far far longer when pre-ordering games, whether self-published or big studio released.

 

 

 

What's inexcuseable is continually trying to get people to cancel their orders on here. It's a dickish move, and has the possiblity of affecting the entire ability to publish the book - if too many people cancel, we loose createspace and Amazon. You want to complain publicly about your own order, fine. You want to try and publicly get people to pull theirs, that's what you got chastised about and will get chastised about. Likewise, it seems the concept of a pre-order is not being understood. Pre-orders are normally done with the understanding that dates are expected, not firm, and subject to change - because you're ordering before the product is ready to go. Game releases and book publishings routinely slide 6 months to a year (some have gone several years), and this has just been a 4 month window - all with far more communication than any other book or game publisher gives anyone.

 

The continued attitude of several people here is nothing but a slap in the face, when I've been pushing myself and doing nothing but regular job all day to book all night and weekend since May. I'm physically and mentally exhausted, but still pushing forward because it needs to get done and I want this War and Peace sized book out and enjoyed by everyone. This is being done out of pure love for the subject, not any need to make a buck, and because we knew nobody else was up to the task of putting together a book with the needed accurate content - let alone this much of it. It's also why we decided to self publish - the book would have been half the size, taken even longer to publish (9 months to a year turnaround we were told), and be edited content wise to what the publisher thinks would sell rather than what we know the fans are expecting. This entire time, I've been continually telling the people that worked at Atari that we interviewed (and who have been gracious enough to continue to make themselves accessible during this entire process) that I hope we do them justice with this book and make them happy. That's been my personal measuring stick in all this.

 

 

I respect and admire your passion and rest assured I will still be first in line to buy when available but I do not entirely agree with what you say here.

 

You say that you only gave ''planned release dates'' and not firm release dates but I think that it is a very subtle distinction and that the majority of people here (or elsewhere) have all the right to feel confused by this and even complain (if politely, of course), especially after you created some hype around the book (this thread is called "Countdown clock has started" after all) also basing it around a date (Atari anniversary).

 

I work for a game company shipping products to retail and (as for all consumer businesses, I think) all dates are "planned" release dates, simply because everything can happen in the world forcing you to change the date. Only God probably has "firm" release dates, so I think the distinction between planned and firm is not convincing enough . And yes, it is now 4 months since your original "planned" release date, no question about this.

 

You also say that it is normal for a product in pre-order to ship 6 months later than planned and this is very true but you also know well that it is then normal for customers/users to complain online and also to mention the fact that everybody should cancel their preorders. I am not saying that this is right or wrong, just saying that this is part of the game and you have to accept it, even if you are pouring heart and soul into your project (like hundreds of talented people do when trying to complete a game running behind schedule).

 

Imho you cannot say that if people cancel their preorders the project is at risk, because part of the audience may think that you are deliberately telling them "just a few days before release" every time just to convince them not to cancel, even if you know the real release date is still far away (I am NOT stating that you are doing this, far from it, it is just what I think about this subject). Again, this is part of the game and imho you have to accept it, even if you are not doing it for a profit, also because this is a Kickstarter funded project.

 

In the end I wish you all the best for the book and I can't wait to read it but please don't get upset if people want to know more about the release date and be honest with them. If you have no idea of when the release will be (or if you feel that it will take a few months more to complete) please let us know and we will relax about it. Telling everyone that it is costantly around the corner and then going silent and then again telling that it is only a few days away and then repeating the process can generate tension in the audience.

[JT Cook]

I for one don't want to cancel my pre-order, nor do I want to advocate anyone else into doing so. I put down the money because I beleive in the people who are working on it will do a good job due to their past track records. I am excited for this book! I also appreciate the second sample that was posted and made me even more eager to get the book.

 

With that said, when people start to invest their money into something, in their mind it becomes less a labor of love that people are working on in their spare time, and more a real product. These people are now customers and investors, and not just community members. Anyone who has ever worked in any sort of customer service/customer facing field starts to understand how people interpret "the customer is always right".

 

I am not looking to disrespect anyone involved because I think the quality of the past efforts is going to be reflected in the current/future efforts (this book). I also understand that not everything goes as planned. It is like the quote I heard John Cash (id programmer) once say "I'd love to live in theory, everything works in theory". We are ALL excited for this, we just want the flow of updates to open a little more

[Retro Rogue]

Imho you cannot say that if people cancel their preorders the project is at risk,

 

Except it's the truth. Amazon payments/Createspace/etc. all fall under the same Amazon umbrella. They have a threshold for the amount of payments reversals before they flag and terminate your account.

 

As for your other comments, I appreciate them but I have to respectfully disagree. There's nothing wrong with people asking for updates, posting complaints, etc., and they're not the ones who that specific paragraph was addressing. However, there have been several individuals who have been very agressive in their complaints to the point they're trying to create a scenario where it will affect the above. Just as they have the right to do so, we have the right to respond in kind.

 

Likewise, it has nothing to do with being a kickstarter funded project. Curt's sent updates to and continually interacted with questions from the Kickstarter backers, they're not at issue here.

 

One last thing -

 

I work for a game company shipping products to retail and (as for all consumer businesses, I think) all dates are "planned" release dates, simply because everything can happen in the world forcing you to change the date. Only God probably has "firm" release dates, so I think the distinction between planned and firm is not convincing enough . And yes, it is now 4 months since your original "planned" release date, no question about this.

 

As we have a background in the gaming industry as well, I understand what you're trying to say. But you're coming from an industry perspective and not consumer, where industry people understand all dates are loose regardless of their publicly stated intention. Not so on the consumer side, there's a distinction between "planned" and "stated" release dates with regards to pre-orders, which is demonstrated by said confusion. You just reaffirmed that.

[+Random Terrain]

I can't wait until it's out so I can read all of the reviews at Amazon. This book might get nothing but 5 stars.

[Turbo Outrun]

 

 

Except it's the truth. Amazon payments/Createspace/etc. all fall under the same Amazon umbrella. They have a threshold for the amount of payments reversals before they flag and terminate your account

 

I know, but you cut the other part of my answer What I wanted to say is that even if true some people do not like the idea of keeping their preorder confirmed against delays just to support the project.

 

By the way my willingness to buy it is stronger than ever. Do you think it will be available within November or within Xmas? Or you honestly can't tell for now?

Edited November 15, 2012 by Turbo Outrun

[Retro Rogue]

By the way my willingness to buy it is stronger than ever. Do you think it will be available within November or within Xmas? Or you honestly can't tell for now?

 

We are honestly trying to have everything up and ready to sell on Amazon in time for Black friday so it's available for the Christmas shopping season.

[SoulBlazer]

We are honestly trying to have everything up and ready to sell on Amazon in time for Black friday so it's available for the Christmas shopping season.

 

Thank you again for all the hard work on this, Curt and Marty. I know you guys are busting your ass off about this, and I also understand that this was never a firm a release date and things out of your control happen. I have pre-ordered the book and am patiently waiting and can't wait to read it. I'm sure that it will be awsome and well worth the wait.

 

The only small piece of constuctive feedback that I might give, to take something that some others have said and modify it, is that it would be awsome if you could check in once a week and just give a quick update, even if there's nothing new to report. People like to know what's going on, even if the only thing you say is 'no new news'.

[high voltage]

It comes when it comes .....patience

[HARMIK]

It comes when it comes I don't need weekly or monthly updates just let me know when its done. And thank you so so much for all your hard work.

[+Random Terrain]

It comes when it comes .....patience

 

Doctors call us patients because we have to sit for at least an hour in the waiting room, then over 20 minutes sitting on an uncomfortable table that has a little strip of deli paper on it. It feels like the doctor is waiting for my ass to fall asleep so he can serve it up for lunch.

[Andromeda Stardust]

We are honestly trying to have everything up and ready to sell on Amazon in time for Black friday so it's available for the Christmas shopping season.

This isn't the first time you've promised us something similar to "hopefully it will be ready to ship in one week." In fact, I have not cancelled because I really want this project to succeed, and I really want to be able to read this epic book. But I have placed preorders before at places like Amazon and Gamestop. And a big difference with said preorders is you don't pay upfront until the product ships. Once I pre-ordered a book on Amazon, and when the due date passed by more than a month, I got an email asking if I still wanted to hold onto my reserve, and I said "yes". Andother month passed and I was asked the same question. Eventually, I got a notification that my preorder was cancelled, with an explaination, "we don't know when or if this product will arrive," and I noticed it had been removed from the website. Then there are games like Paper Mario Sticker Star and Luigi's Mansion 2 for 3DS that Nintendo pushed back a whole year. Again with Gamestop, they don't require upfront payment over $5 for games or $50 for consoles, and you can get a rull refund of the deposite by cancelling anytime. I simply feel that it's unfair to charge the customer money before the product is ready. Then there's no worries if it never comes out. When I placed my preorder on the 24th of July, I paid in due faith that the product would ship on July 27th, and I would have the book in hand in early August. It is now mid-November, just saying. Now you are saying it should be ready to ship in by Black Friday (one week away); I am just saying it may not be such a wise thing to tell your customers unless you are absolutely certain the book will be ready to ship before December.

[Curt Vendel]

Then the conversation is now settled, we'll take this up next weekend after everyone wakes up from their tryptophan induced coma's and is picking on their 5th helping of turkey, ham, mashed potato's, cranberry sauce and apple pie... the notice will be up with the posting, the link to the direct order page will be up, it will be up on Amazon, we should be able to immediately post up the kindle version a day later and we will be ordering in our batch for autographing for our kickstarter backers and others who've helped us on this insanely massive project, until then... gobble gobble...

[SoulBlazer]

Then the conversation is now settled, we'll take this up next weekend after everyone wakes up from their tryptophan induced coma's and is picking on their 5th helping of turkey, ham, mashed potato's, cranberry sauce and apple pie... the notice will be up with the posting, the link to the direct order page will be up, it will be up on Amazon, we should be able to immediately post up the kindle version a day later and we will be ordering in our batch for autographing for our kickstarter backers and others who've helped us on this insanely massive project, until then... gobble gobble...

 

I wish I had known you guys funded this thru Kickstarter. I would have supported it. Ah well.

 

Thanks again, Marty and Curt.

[Mirage]

Awesome! I forgot about this one during my summer hiatus. Looking forward to this for some winter reading!

[SpaceDice2010]

There is already a book out on how Romney lost the election. Just saying.

[rolenta]

There is already a book out on how Romney lost the election. Just saying.

 

And if Obama lost, the same book would have come out with the names changed

[+wood_jl]

Oh no! I hope the Atari Book Thread doesn't become politicized. If someone wrote a book since the election, it must not be very good. Week and a half? I'm expecting this Atari book to be very good!

[+FujiSkunk]

There is already a book out on how Romney lost the election. Just saying.

 

Those books are written well in advance, with room for a few minor details to be tweaked or maybe an extra chapter or two to be written after the event has taken place. Someone probably had a book written on how Romney won the election, too.

 

My personal favorite is the book written about the New England Patriots after they went 19-0... except they didn't. Amazon even continued offering the book for some time following the Patriots' loss in the Super Bowl.

 

So yeah, if you want one of these books written the right way, you have to wait a while.

Edited November 17, 2012 by FujiSkunk

[Andromeda Stardust]

Also, if your famous, you can write a book about anything, and guarantee a bestseller list. I mean, Monica Lueinsky and Hillary both wrote books about the Bill Clinton Scandal. OJ Simpson wrote a book-long confession and entitled it "If I did it." Personally, I believe a book about the "fall from grace" of Atari is a lot more interesting of a read than a celebrity's spin on their personal "fall from grace". The mass public will disagree with this sentiment, but then again the mass public subscribes to Facepalm/Twatter, and we have Atariage.

[+Stephen]

There is already a book out on how Romney lost the election. Just saying.

That's not fair. Curt and Marty's book is over 700 pages. "He's a douchebag" is only 3 words, and does not really constitute a book P.S. That statement applies to ALL career politicians. I am an equal opportunity hater so I don't want any flames.

[SpaceDice2010]

And if Obama lost, the same book would have come out with the names changed

 

Actually I wouldn't say that is entirely true, but the point is it didn't take long for a new book to appear even if the additional content in marginal. The book in question is actually a well written book that never makes a case for an Obama victory in that throughout the whole book the author is saying the Republicans have lost their way. If the book was called "How Obama Lost" it wouldn't make any sense at all. (Much like our political system now.)

[SpaceDice2010]

Those books are written well in advance, with room for a few minor details to be tweaked or maybe an extra chapter or two to be written after the event has taken place. Someone probably had a book written on how Romney won the election, too.

 

Exactly my point. But it took how long for the additional changes/additions to be done? Two days? Let's just hope that spell checking isn't holding up the Atari book... We can deal with some misspelled words.

Edited November 19, 2012 by SpaceDice2010

[rolenta]

Actually I wouldn't say that is entirely true, but the point is it didn't take long for a new book to appear even if the additional content in marginal. The book in question is actually a well written book that never makes a case for an Obama victory in that throughout the whole book the author is saying the Republicans have lost their way. If the book was called "How Obama Lost" it wouldn't make any sense at all. (Much like our political system now.)

 

Actually my comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

[SoulBlazer]

Actually my comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

 

But I still think you're right, Leonard, serious or not.

 

I suspose it's too soon to ask roughly when books 2 and 3 may be out, huh?

[rolenta]

But I still think you're right, Leonard, serious or not.

 

I suspose it's too soon to ask roughly when books 2 and 3 may be out, huh?

 

2 and 3 of what?