sh3-rg Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 My gripe to be completely blunt was aimed at you. Nobody else in the thread. And you're proving me right. So my post containing the pertinent facts and pointing out you could have worded your question better really tipped you over the edge to come out with that post? Jeebus. Go on, admit it... it's because I said "There's no C in shmup" isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 *grabs popcorn* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The Jaguar can do anything a lesser console can do, and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) So who ordered this one? Edited July 6, 2012 by sh3-rg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'll just leave this here. It might ward off the bad spirits.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 So who ordered this one? Instead of saying that it's a jaguar exclusive, I'll just show ya this 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thegoldenband Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The Jaguar can do anything a lesser console can do, and better. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 So who ordered this one? Not me, I've already got a copy of Mad Bodies. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoquickcapri Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The only thing this topic is missing is.......... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 It certainly wouldn´t have had any effect on the framerate to add some music and sounds, don´t know where you get that from And it wasn´t abandoned because we didn´t want to do a rewrite to add sounds, the only reason there are no sounds is that there was no mainmemory, all the game data is sitting in the memory which would not be the case in a normal game mode. As for Fast Striker, it is displaying a static prerendered background loop, the "parallax" is coming from the prerendered image not any fancy neogeo magic. As others have pointed out here, its all a matter of cartridge space. I was one of those who pointed out a lack of cartridge space. As far as "parallax" I actually said "parallax OR SIMILIAR" becuase I don't know for sure how it was done. As to Native, forgive me for my incorrect statements, I was only repeating what I had heard in the past from people who I thought knew what they were talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Can't the RISC processor in the Jag act as a lossless decompressor for sprites?It can, and some games do that, but it has its limits ; even with compression, 32 MB of graphics aren't going to fit in a 4 MB cartridge. Not to mention it's not going to be fast enough to decompress in real time. maybe not 4MB cart, but what about a 6MB cart which the Jag can use? (with good compression of course) Edited July 6, 2012 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 It certainly wouldn´t have had any effect on the framerate to add some music and sounds, don´t know where you get that from And it wasn´t abandoned because we didn´t want to do a rewrite to add sounds, the only reason there are no sounds is that there was no mainmemory, all the game data is sitting in the memory which would not be the case in a normal game mode. As for Fast Striker, it is displaying a static prerendered background loop, the "parallax" is coming from the prerendered image not any fancy neogeo magic. As others have pointed out here, its all a matter of cartridge space. I was one of those who pointed out a lack of cartridge space. As far as "parallax" I actually said "parallax OR SIMILIAR" becuase I don't know for sure how it was done. As to Native, forgive me for my incorrect statements, I was only repeating what I had heard in the past from people who I thought knew what they were talking about. Gunstar this is the post your talking about. http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/112422-jaguar-vs-neo-geo-aes/page__hl__%20neo%20%20geo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The better question is, why would you want to? The Neo Geo does a good job with what it does. Can't the Jaguar just be a Jaguar and do what it does? Maybe not everybody's satisfied with Bubsy & Ultra Vortek. When I think of the Jaguar, those two are VERY favorable in my mind. When I first got the Jag shortly after release (1 - 2 yearsish because EB never had stock) I already had a Neo Geo with games like Nam75, Fatal Fury, and Magician Lord. Bubsy and Ultra Vortek were just as cool to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 lots of 4chan kids here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rdemming Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 maybe not 4MB cart, but what about a 6MB cart which the Jag can use? (with good compression of course) Why only 6MB? The SkunkBoard v2 has two banks of 4MB. A game specially written for the SkunkBoard can swap between those two banks and thus use both banks to get 8MB cartridge space. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 If someone comes up with a cart solution that forgoes addressable ROM space and includes a file system for SSD access, then a game like Fast Striker could certainly be possible. Actually, I'll go out on a limb and say that something even more impressive would be possible. The Jag CD drive is simply too slow to work as a solution, whereas an SSD would have fast enough access to pull it off (IMO). And forget about trying to compess graphics onto a 4 or 6 MB ROM cart. As Zerosquare already stated before, the real time decompression would seriously inhibit the system, and you'll be hard pressed to fit enough in that little ROM space to make it worth it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 i would rather never see that background technique used so extensively on a jaguar game anyway. cool for the first two seconds of each level then you realize you keep seeing the same thing over and over again. what a waste of cartridge space too. I think blazing star handled it better where they do it for only the intro of the second stage. and the rest of the games looks and plays great too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I wouldn't mind seeing this visual technique used at least once. It was used in Iridion 3D for the GBA, and considering it wasn't used on every stage in that game, it worked well there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilevoix Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 The better question is, why would you want to? The Neo Geo does a good job with what it does. Can't the Jaguar just be a Jaguar and do what it does? Maybe not everybody's satisfied with Bubsy & Ultra Vortek. When I think of the Jaguar, those two are VERY favorable in my mind. When I first got the Jag shortly after release (1 - 2 yearsish because EB never had stock) I already had a Neo Geo with games like Nam75, Fatal Fury, and Magician Lord. Bubsy and Ultra Vortek were just as cool to me. Man you had a neo in the day? That was like being the guy with a Lamborghini. I got one finally in 2002. Well the ps1 did Metal Slug X wouldn't. The Jag be able to do that? The ps1 had 2mb and a double speed cd rom the jag has similar attributes so why not? The Saturn did one better with a memory cart specifically got metal slug and KOF So I say a jag with a simple 4-8mb cart and it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) maybe not 4MB cart, but what about a 6MB cart which the Jag can use? (with good compression of course) Why only 6MB? The SkunkBoard v2 has two banks of 4MB. A game specially written for the SkunkBoard can swap between those two banks and thus use both banks to get 8MB cartridge space. Robert Are you certain of that? I had the Skunkboard 2,and the manual stated quite clearly that either 2 4MB images could be loaded, or 1 6MB image. I just re-read it, and it never once mentioned the ability to use all 8MB anywhere in the manual. It doesn't say swapping between the banks is possible at all. So where did you read that all 8MB can be used at all?!? Here is a link to the PDF manual: http://www.harmlesslion.com/cgi-bin/showprog.cgi?search=skunkboard Open the PDF, and read the second paragraph on page 3 of the skunkboard 2 manual. Edited July 7, 2012 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 [but there just isn't much there and the programmers abandoned it becuase adding sound and music to it would have ruined the frame rate. They told you this, did they? I think the Jaguar being discontinued and Atari getting merged with JTS after a disasterous Christmas 1995 had a lot more to do with why Native was left where it was ... as nothing more than an awesome demo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 maybe not 4MB cart, but what about a 6MB cart which the Jag can use? (with good compression of course) Why only 6MB? The SkunkBoard v2 has two banks of 4MB. A game specially written for the SkunkBoard can swap between those two banks and thus use both banks to get 8MB cartridge space. Robert Are you certain of that? I had the Skunkboard 2,and the manual stated quite clearly that either 2 4MB images could be loaded, or 1 6MB image. I just re-read it, and it never once mentioned the ability to use all 8MB anywhere in the manual. It doesn't say swapping between the banks is possible at all. So where did you read that all 8MB can be used at all?!? Here is a link to the PDF manual: http://www.harmlesslion.com/cgi-bin/showprog.cgi?search=skunkboard Open the PDF, and read the second paragraph on page 3 of the skunkboard 2 manual. Read the programming section of the same PDF, page 23 tells the programmers how to swap banks. You absolutely could make a (nearly) 8MB program run on the Skunkboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rdemming Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Are you certain of that? I had the Skunkboard 2,and the manual stated quite clearly that either 2 4MB images could be loaded, or 1 6MB image. I just re-read it, and it never once mentioned the ability to use all 8MB anywhere in the manual. It doesn't say swapping between the banks is possible at all. So where did you read that all 8MB can be used at all?!? Here is a link to the PDF manual: http://www.harmlessl...arch=skunkboard Open the PDF, and read the second paragraph on page 3 of the skunkboard 2 manual. Page 3 is correct. It says "software configurable to appear as either 2 banks of 4MB, or a single bank of 6MB, always mapped at $800000". And a developer can say which of those two 4MB banks is active. If you skip to page 23 you can see how: SkunkBoard Rev 2 programming Although not strictly recommended, the following instructions may be useful to programmers wishing to write software specifically for SkunkBoard revision 2. We reserve the right to change these interfaces without warning. Set Bank 0 move.w #$4ba0,$c00000 ; set bank 0 Set Bank 1 move.w #$4ba1,$c00000 ; set bank 1 Set 6MB Mode move.w #$4ba0,$c00000 ; set bank 0 move.w #$4003,$c00000 ; set 6MB mode Note that the latter sequence for 6MB mode is strongly recommended, in case users set the mode incorrectly when starting from the joystick. If you publish on ROM, and still wish to permit Skunkboards to run the code, it should be safe to leave the instructions in place. Also note that the bank switch is instantaneous. Thus, Set Bank 0 or Set Bank 1 should only be executed. Thus it is very simple for a running program to switch between banks. You only have to make sure that when you are switching, there is nothing executing from cart space. Robert [edit]Tursi was just a bit faster in answering your question [edit] Edited July 7, 2012 by rdemming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 maybe not 4MB cart, but what about a 6MB cart which the Jag can use? (with good compression of course) Why only 6MB? The SkunkBoard v2 has two banks of 4MB. A game specially written for the SkunkBoard can swap between those two banks and thus use both banks to get 8MB cartridge space. Robert Are you certain of that? I had the Skunkboard 2,and the manual stated quite clearly that either 2 4MB images could be loaded, or 1 6MB image. I just re-read it, and it never once mentioned the ability to use all 8MB anywhere in the manual. It doesn't say swapping between the banks is possible at all. So where did you read that all 8MB can be used at all?!? Here is a link to the PDF manual: http://www.harmlesslion.com/cgi-bin/showprog.cgi?search=skunkboard Open the PDF, and read the second paragraph on page 3 of the skunkboard 2 manual. Read the programming section of the same PDF, page 23 tells the programmers how to swap banks. You absolutely could make a (nearly) 8MB program run on the Skunkboard. Very cool! yeah, I was looking for something that actually said "how to use all 8MB" or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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