Michael David Morsette Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I picked these up at a good price but I don't know how to determine value. I am trying to use them for trade. I am pretty confident of their authenticity, but all they are all easy to get in other forms. Three of them are EPROM developement carts, 1 is a demo and "Diag" I guess was a in house testing cart. Does anyone have any ideas of worth? Also how do you determine if they are fakes, or repros? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I think screenshots and/or provenance will be required to determine the value (and 'legitimacy') of these carts. Chances are pretty good that 'Diag' is a proto -- not a repro -- and you can't discount totally discount items from Video 61, either: you can sometimes end up with a proto from Lance instead of a pirate cart. You just never know. Sadly, I put the value of a Lynx proto in the range of $50-$75 unless it's a really rare item. I'm sure you've discovered that the Lynx collecting scene is static and tiny (heck, you're the most active collector!), and people tend to want to hold onto their rarities rather than trade them away. I'd suggest that your 'BL' demo will attract the least interest, and that 'FB' (regardless of its 'legitimacy') will fetch the most -- you can't get it anymore from any North American source, and it will cost about $100 if you want to get it from Telegames (and if they have it in stock). I would have spent $100 for it before I bought my copy from that eBay seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrutallyHonestGamer Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 there's a ton of these on Ebay I saw, and I wondered the same thing how do you tell if they are real or fakes? It's not like 2600 or 5200 prototypes that have the label on the cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 It's a complicated issue, as much of what's floating around out there are FrankenProtos -- they've been cobbled together with legit boards and repro chips (or some other combination), and identification is, therefore, a tricky thing. The only thing that I can say is that the true Lynx protos usually don't self-advertise. If the circuit board describes itself as an "Atari proto" (or "Atari Eprom"), it probably isn't. I have a few of those in my collection, and I acquired all of them from Video 61 and/or B&C about eight to ten years ago. If you look at "Diag" and "BL", you can see that they're mounted on unusual circuit boards, and that leads me to the believe that they're valid. You may, of course, consider FrankenProtos to be valid protos. Some people do. There's the odd issue of Telegames. It appears that Telegames acquired quite a bit of old stock from Atari, and may have sold some protos in Telegames packaging when they ran out of stock. Telegames also issued a few copies of their games on their own, weird FrakenCarts. Are these protos or one-of-a-kinds? I have no idea. The history of EotB is very strange -- I understand that several runs of carts were made before it was given a wider release a few years ago, and you can't quite describe those as pirate carts. What are they? They certainly have value -- for a time, some of the game-save carts were being offered for about $1000. As I've said, though, the issue is complex, and it's not helped by the fact that there are so few Lynx collectors out there -- there isn't really a market for these things, and people therefore haven't been really keeping track of who has what. I probably have the biggest collection in Canada, but I haven't been careful with my documentation, and I have a mix of everything now. I also don't have any way of dumping the ROMS to check them, so all that I can say is that I have a few likely protos (including two that I purchased from that eBay seller), a "?" (my 'save' copy of EotB, and a few others), and a whole bunch of what are likely FrankenProtos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matashen Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 The one like Shadow of the beast are Atari Original protos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael David Morsette Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) The one like Shadow of the beast are Atari Original protos. Glad to hear that. It looked like that to me, but my experiance is a bit limited It looks like the chips fit into but are not soildered to the board, the type of thing I would expect of a proto being developed. Edited August 17, 2012 by MrBland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojay1997 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 The one like Shadow of the beast are Atari Original protos. Do you mind sharing how you can be so sure? Between Best Electronics, Video 61 and B&C all having access to original Atari prototype parts and frankly all three of them having no concerns about building their own protos and selling them, I can't see how anyone can be sure. Similarly, that seller on Ebay, Misfit Toys had a lot of Video 61 stuff mixed in with his other items, so it's clear he at least bought some items from them and perhaps other vendors. He also never really explained what he did in the 15 years he claimed he worked at Atari. In any event, unless you find something that comes directly from the programmer or someone else that can establish a chain of custody back to Atari, I would be very skeptical of any Lynx protos out there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matashen Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Iam sure, cause this PCB design is only used by Atari. Later Designs from Video61 and Best dont have the bat solder points and the pads for an additional RAM. No one redesigned that exactly - if someone did, please contact me iam interested in a working design with additional RAM. Regards Matthias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailChao Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 No one redesigned that exactly - if someone did, please contact me iam interested in a working design with additional RAM. If you are just looking for nonvolatile memory, you can get 1MB ROM + Max 512KB FRAM with no additional components aside from an inverter and some coupling caps. Connect ROM CE and OE to /CART0, and the highest address bit to AUDIN (if 1MB, otherwise not needed). FRAM CE is on /CART1, OE is connected to AUDIN, WR is connected to AUDIN through an inverter. It's very nice and simple for layout. But if you are looking for more scratchpad memory, the cartridge is not practical at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matashen Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 i already have a good PCB designer on hand, but i want to see what Atari designed back in the days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Didn't Video61 and Best, at least, have original Atari unpopulated EPROM boards? That was my understanding, and is primarily what makes identifying true Atari-era prototypes so difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Didn't Video61 and Best, at least, have original Atari unpopulated EPROM boards? That was my understanding, and is primarily what makes identifying true Atari-era prototypes so difficult. That's my belief as well. Some of the 'protos' that I acquired from Video 61 have a PCB board that are marked "Lynx proto-cart"...but have a copyright date of 2001 ('Ryland designs"), so it's clear that they aren't. Other games, though, appear to have been put on Atari-era PCB boards. All of my B&C proto games are on boards that are clearly marked with the B&C logo, so you can't misidentify them as anything but repro-protos. I wish all repros were released with some type of distinguishing mark on the boards! I still think that there's lots of uncertainty with respect to the status of most protos. The AA cartridge list suggests that Othello was the only game to be put on Green PCB style 1, but here's what I have on that type of circuit board: EotB -- (Video 61 eBay sale -- full game with save feature) Fat Bobby (full game with "God Mode" and level skip) Hyperdrome (eBay sale from the former Atari employee) Lode Runner (Video 61 likely origin -- game is the version with sound) Othello (I acquired this directly from Harry) Pounce (Video 61 probable origin) Mr. Bland's Diagnostic Cart is on the same style of board. Othello was released in '99, after the commercial life of the Lynx, but at least two of my games (Fat Bobby, Hyperdrome) appear to be actual protos. Does this mean that Green PCB style 1 was around in '94 and '95, or that someone mounted real chips on after-age boards sometime in the latter half of the '90s? The mysteries continue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matashen Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Does this mean that Green PCB style 1 was around in '94 and '95Yes, cause the PCB design was used from Lynx-Supporter after the commercial. It was created from Lars Baumstark and Bastian Schick. Carl Forhan does already use them and also Telegames used cards from that people. Eotb Full Game with Save feature is only produced by Atari and ericdelee, cause for an reproduction the code must be hacked. The chips for the savefeature that Atari used are not available in the wild -so the code must be changed to a new eeprom conform code. The Original Atari Boards are Original Protos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Okay, I'm wrong. Do you have any more information about when Green PCB style 1 boards were made? And who produced the 2001 'Ryland Designs' boards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matashen Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 what do you mean with ryland designs - can you upload a picture ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadgetUK Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) The Atari boards are available to buy, so its very hard to tell a genuine proto from a repro. Its easy to write a label out with a date on it and have it appear like a genuine proto. Not suggesting they arent genuine, just saying you probably cant prove either way without some written proof from the person that originally programmed the EPROM. Edited August 19, 2012 by GadgetUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matashen Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 where can you buy atari-repro cards. i never seen it in a shop the last 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadgetUK Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I am pretty sure Best Electronics had some and I saw a batch of 20 sell on EBAY 3 or 4 months ago. Looked like it supported 2 different chip sizes with battery back RAM support, with Atari logo on PCB. Someone could have also cloned the original board design, its not rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael David Morsette Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) For me another reason these particular protos seem legit is the fact that there just isn't enough demand to make the work worthwhile. They are all available in other forms and to fake them looks to me like it would take a lot of work and attention to insider detail that most people probibly aren't even aware of. Then of course there are the sources I got them from; well known collectors, atari employees, etc. Edited August 19, 2012 by MrBland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadgetUK Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) Yes, I suspect its unlikely people would waste atari PCBs these days on repros. That said, they were reproducing using Atari boards when they had loads in stock several years ago. Theres a question mark in my mind over the actual value of any prototype, as many have been reproduced and ultimately a collector probably wants a copy of the game regardless of whether it was the original proto that the others were cloned off. Eg. If I told you that my Road Blasters was owned by John Romero, would that make any difference? Probably not, but it would for a handfull of collectors, with or without proof. At the end of the day the ratity is what actually matters, and since every cart can be reproduced by hobbyists, ultimately we will see more of the rarer games cloned. The trully rare games in my eyes are EOTB, Relief Pitcher, Busty or whatever its called and probably 3 or 4 others that have no more than say 10 copies in existance. Edited August 19, 2012 by GadgetUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael David Morsette Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) I contacted the collector I got Blue Lightning, Basketbrawl, Road Riot, Fat Bobby, and Shadow of the Beast from, here is what he said: "...I got them from 3 different sources over the years, one set from Curt Vendel (many years ago...) who got them from John Skruch . Another set directly from Juli Wade. Skruch and Wade were both producers at Atari, and I'm sure you'll recognize their names from various games' credit screens. A third set came from an UK seller. I forgot his name but I believe he was coordinating UK developers as all the protos I got from him were games that were programmed by UK teams (SotB, Road Riot, Fat Bobby)... Blue Lightning Demo came from Juli Wade, Basketbrawl from the John Skruch set." "..." indicates edits to his statement that I felt were appropriate. Here are some more protos that look similiar that I picked up from a fellow who said he got them from a liquidation asset auction. He couldn't give me any more info on them. I tried to get some clearer pictures of these, than the last ones Edited August 21, 2012 by MrBland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_lynx1989 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 The stuff you show and the sources they came from only solidify them being real to me You can't generally just grab this stuff out there from most people,unless they are true fans or folks that were at or really knew "someone" at Atari or etc. like Lance,Brad,Bruce or Curt did. Pirates generally don't have those sources or that kind of luck. Folks like that usually didn't know Purple,John,Juli,Jerome,Eric and etc. at Atari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadgetUK Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sounds like youve got some original protos there, with a bit of history attached. I would be tempted to print off those emails you got and store them with the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 what do you mean with ryland designs - can you upload a picture ? I'll take a picture of these when I get back home later this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael David Morsette Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 I contacted the person I got Rampage, Checkered Flag, and J.C. Tennis (I also bought Pac-Land and Batman from him). Here is what he said about the items: "Ok, I worked for Tips & Tricks Magazine for 8 years, VG&CE was a part of that magazine at one time, some protos came from there, some from EGM, etc. I don't know precise where all my stuff came from because when I worked at the magazine I went to press events and while everyone got drunk I made contacts and bought up development items... ...But yes, that is the info I have for you about my items. I have over 1,200 protos and al slowly trickling through them and had around 5,000 disk prototypes at one time..." "..." represents edits to his statement I felt appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.