flashjazzcat Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) Nope, the candle version was very complete. Unfortunately Lotharek's version doesn't include.all the accessory's. About that IDC cable issue. I'm willing to buy them and even assemble them for everyone to buy. But I'm afraid it.will be too expensive. If the website from my.link really has them in stock. I might well be interested in a set if you find enough demand for them. I've just done a dry-run fit of one of Lotharek's boards in an 800XL (not mine), and the supplied OS ROM adapter is far too tall for the U1MB board to fit in the usual XL position (over the PBI) using the standoffs supplied with Candle's boards. One could use (much) longer standoffs and screws, but I'm not even certain the computer's lid will fit if that approach is used. The alternative is to mount the board somewhere else, and I wonder what Lotharek's suggested board position / cable routing might be for the XL series. However, I'm in the rather awkward position of having already drilled the mounting holes in the "Rev 1" position, above the PBI. It's stated on the website that the XL adapter is "much higher" than on the XE line, but there's no description of how to fit everything into the case, and the pictures show the U1MB fitted in the "Rev 1" position in an XL, and using the "Rev 1" adapters... ...oh dear... Edited December 24, 2012 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santosp Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) One could use (much) longer standoffs and screws, but I'm not even certain the computer's lid will fit if that approach is used. That was what I feared. Flashjazzcat although I don't have in my hands yet, I think cause the solution is to remove the existing IDC connector, and to replace with an angular one. But to be sure first must wait to arrive here! Edited December 24, 2012 by santosp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Nope, the candle version was very complete. Unfortunately Lotharek's version doesn't include.all the accessory's. About that IDC cable issue. I'm willing to buy them and even assemble them for everyone to buy. But I'm afraid it.will be too expensive. If the website from my.link really has them in stock. I have a new U1MB ordered and would be interested in a set of cables if you get enough interest. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotharek Posted December 25, 2012 Author Share Posted December 25, 2012 in 800xl i fit ultimate board above modulator. Also, it fits right to cart slot over OS rom. lenght of cables is not problem. i supply ULTIMATES, but i`m able ONLY deliver univeral solution for all computers 8bit - not separated for 65xe, xen, 1bit, 4 bit, 800xl, 1200 xl, 1400xld, etc etc. and sorry to say that - will not do that. i have plenty devices in my offer, i prefer to focus on quality and all (stupid) rohs, envirmoemntal EU demands and qucik dispatch, instead of minor problems, that everyone can handle home. All my offers and are crystal clean, everywhere i mention what `s inside box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 The point is simply that the solution would be more universal if the original DIL connectors were used. I have a 1200XL here with Stereo Pokey board which wouldn't play with that OS ROM adapter - no way, no how. No-one is disputing the quality of the Ultimate 1MB itself. But surely it would have been more cost effective to use the flat ribbon connectors rather than two daughterboards with header pins and IDC sockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 (edited) Oh, oh U1MB critisizim!!...... :-o brings back bad memories... Edited December 25, 2012 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 (edited) Thanks to Santosp I found prices on the TME website. They are more expensive, but they have them in stock. Even if I could get 50 cable sets to sell, the price per set would be approximately 7,50 euro (incl. shipping). And I would be doing this without any profit. For shipping I assume that it can go into regular mail and that it will not be too heavy. So if I would do this. I would need a minimum of 50 orders for 1 cable set. It includes the following products: http://www.tme.eu/en...idc-connectors/ http://www.tme.eu/en...idc-connectors/ http://www.tme.eu/en...ectors/ninigi/# http://www.tme.eu/en...tors/amphenol/# http://www.tme.eu/en...-tools-others/# http://www.tme.eu/en...m/362530-100ft/ [update] I forgot.. The prices mentioned on the TME website are ex. VAT. (and shipping) So the price would even be higher, I guess aprox. 8,50 euro (11,20 dollar) Edited December 25, 2012 by Louis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 use BQ cable ribbon, it will cut down your cost in half, also use amphenol connectors as ninigi are not so much cheaper, and of suspectable quality plastic stand-offs you can find in mechanical parts section (also TME), and bolts/nuts/washers you can find in any hardware store 17mm goes into XL line, 20mm into XE line, for XEGS standoffs are 17mm, for 600XL it should be something around 12-15mm (don't remember right now) if you need lenghts i've used, just let me know 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SoulBuster Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I just finished my 130xe upgrade. Now to do the 800XL. Hope it is easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 God have mercy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SoulBuster Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I did not ask God for help and he offered none so his mercy is not needed here . Looks like I laid that PCB right on the motherboard, right ? There are 4 different rubber feet under it to keep everything up off the main board ! The best part(s), I did not have to drill the main board and it doesn't move at all . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santosp Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) God have mercy... :-D Oh my God. Your Atari is in danger by a giant tie rap, who like squid has wrapped its board!! Just kidding... Where do you find the black DIP IDC connectors? Edited December 30, 2012 by santosp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SoulBuster Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Where do you find the black DIP IDC connectors? Metro Electronics. They are a local electronic parts store. It does not look like they are set up for internet sales. It is kinda cool having a local place to just walk into and pick stuff up though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa_november Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) I ordered my IC ribbon connectors from Jameco, only to discover shortly afterward that I could get them locally from Anchor Electronics. It's kind of a hole in the wall, but it's a total class act of a place. It's very well-organized and their selection is full of little suprises. Highly reccommended if you're in the area. Edited December 30, 2012 by papa_november Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariMagic! Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 what about VBXE , will we see it produced by lotharek ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santosp Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 This is another story, but... http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariMagic! Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 This is another story, but... http://www.lotharek....duct.php?pid=82 saw that , but it's not for sale yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santosp Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Show your interest there, as to make it possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotharek Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 :-) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Great! Looking forward to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 @Lotharek Really great movie. I love that Accent you have in your voice! It's just like From Russia With Love... Fabulous one thing: You show in the movie SIDE loading ATR (NUMEN) using Ultimate 1MB. You say: it is very FAST (the loading) But I really thought: hmm that is not very fast... I have NUMEN demo on a 16MB partition with SpartaDos 3.3a, and I boot this with MyIDE I and the MyBIOS in ROM (in my Ultimate 1MB); it loads on the eye 3 or 4 times faster then SIDE. How is this possible? This is not a SIDE vs MyIDE thread or question! I'm wondering: wouldn't numen load a lot faster when the files are stored on a SpartaDos 3.3a partition (not SDX) and load from there? I guess SIDE and MyIDE are doing almost the same thing, so I can not believe MyIDE is so much faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) one thing: You show in the movie SIDE loading ATR (NUMEN) using Ultimate 1MB. You say: it is very FAST (the loading) But I really thought: hmm that is not very fast... I have NUMEN demo on a 16MB partition with SpartaDos 3.3a, and I boot this with MyIDE I and the MyBIOS in ROM (in my Ultimate 1MB); it loads on the eye 3 or 4 times faster then SIDE. How is this possible? This is not a SIDE vs MyIDE thread or question! I'm wondering: wouldn't numen load a lot faster when the files are stored on a SpartaDos 3.3a partition (not SDX) and load from there? I guess SIDE and MyIDE are doing almost the same thing, so I can not believe MyIDE is so much faster. Consider what's happening when the OS is reading sectors from an ATR disk image mounted inside the FAT32 file system. For every 128 byte sector read from the ATR, we must read a 512 byte sector from the FAT32 area into some temporary buffer, compensate for the 16 byte ATR header (meaning that some logical sectors will span two physical sectors), then copy 128 bytes from the temporary buffer to the SIO buffer address. Sure four 128 byte sectors fit into a 512 byte sector, but because of the 16 byte ATR header, only three complete 128 byte sectors can be read from a cached 512 byte sector (and yes, we do read-ahead caching in the PBI ROM, so up to three 128 byte sector requests on consecutive sector numbers require only one physical sector read). Same goes for 256 byte sectors, although in this case only one complete logical sector can be found 16 bytes into a 512 byte physical sector. Every other sector is split across two 512 byte sectors. This means at least double the amount of work simply to deliver a logical sector. Compare this with any "native" partition: the PBI code simply pulls bytes direct from the IDE sector buffer and stores them at their destination (DOS sector buffer or "burst" read address in RAM). So the most you can reasonably expect from an ATR mounted in the FAT32 area is half the performance of a "native" hard disk partition. Having said that, I never experienced better than 25KB/s in the most optimal circumstances using the MyIDE 1 "BIOS", so I'd question the comparisons made there. MyIDE II might be much better - I haven't tried the new BIOS. A better comparison would be to mount (or do whatever is necessary) the Numen ATR under MyIDE 2 and see how fast it loads. Writing to the mounted ATR requires even more effort: read physical sector, copy all or part of logical sector into it, write physical sector - then potentially do the same thing again if the logical sector is split across two physical sectors. Works perfectly well, though. Edited January 24, 2013 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thanks for your reply fjc. That makes sense. Like I said: no myide vs side here. Myide I and II are both equal in speed, myide II is not better than myide I ... It only has more features. I will record (movie) the loadspeed of NUMEN on my home brew myide and you'll see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 From what I understand (I read it very quickly, I'm at work) the loading speed is slower because of ATR mounting. I thought only SIDE supported this... In that case you can't compare those two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Myide I and II are both equal in speed. From what I understand (I read it very quickly, I'm at work) the loading speed is slower because of ATR mounting. Basically, yes. I thought only SIDE supported this... In that case you can't compare those two. MyIDE has image slots, I think? I don't know how they work: I can only guess that the whole disk image would be mapped onto a fixed area of the hard disk. APT has provision for disk slots in the spec, but they were never used because we came up with the ATR mounting instead. The two devices are broadly incompatible for a number of reasons, including: a) U1MB and SIDE use APT, MyBIOS doesn't, and b) the IDE registers are in different places, so U1MB can never provide PBI support for MyIDE 1 or 2 (since MyIDE's IDE registers are right under the U1MB PBI's RAM). Edited January 24, 2013 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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