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#251 ComputerSpaceFan ONLINE  

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Posted Thu May 2, 2013 10:49 PM

At the risk of sounding like a demanding entitled selfish person, any chances of adding a Pauline Edition to this? You're probably all out of spare cycles in your code but given how popular the Pauline Editions of various DK versions are out there in various forums I thought I'd at least ask if she and Mario can switch places in this homebrew?

#252 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 3, 2013 1:44 PM

That would be much more likely to happen as a custom version.

(and it's not an issue of "spare cycles", it's an issue of storage space for the different sprites)

#253 Kosmic Stardust ONLINE  

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Posted Fri May 3, 2013 2:36 PM

Seems I haven't posted a new version for two months now. I wanted to wait with that until stage 1 is almost finished, but since I probably won't be able to work much on this project for some time to come, I think I should release it in it's current state.

New features include:

  • Brand new enemy AI system ( stage 1 only for now ).
  • Barrels are now thrown by Kong and roll down the girders.
  • The Fireball on the second floor got a bit more aggressive.
It is still very easy to get to the top of stage 1. Difficulty progression will be added in a future version, though I think I will not make L=1 more difficult so that also kids can play it.

Have fun!

Neat! I've read the comments and it sounds epic. Apparently, I must have been logged off when i checked the update email, so I didn't get all the wonderful followups to this homebrew. I will definitely plug it into my Harmony and give some feedback later. I've been on a roll lately playing Donkey Kong Jr and DK Complete Edition (4 levels) on my NES.

Just a random thought...would the 'starpath supercharger' help any with making this game (to allow for more ram or whatever)?

or another thought. What if you had 'disk 1, disk 2, disk 3, etc'...

So that the first level of donkey kong=disk 1
Disk 2=second level

Disk=cartridge of course

Would that allow for better programming of donkey kong (if space is an issue)?

Just brainstorming randomly.

By default, an Atari ROM is locked to a maximum of 4kbytes. What you are suggesting is putting a 4kb ROM on each separate cartridge and swapping them out as needed. DK VCS is already a 32kb ROM, with 8 individual 4kb banks. According to the author, you would have to swap out the ROM carts six or more times per frame, and heaven forbid you insert the wrong cartridge. Not to mention the Atari or any other cartridge based system are generally not hotpluggable. Even if it was, even SuperMan can't swap carts this fast. Fortunately, there is a little bankswitch chip inside the cartridge to automatically swap the ROMs the Atari sees so that you don't have to swap manually. This chip switches banks so fast it's completely transparent. This little chip is more powerful than Super Man. So is the TIA, because after all, Superman never brought quality games to childrens' bedrooms (or middle aged men still stuck in a much simpler retro world, who refuse to believe in the existence of CD- based HD consoles with mind blowing 3D graphics).

Yes, you heard that right; the TIA is still more powerful than Superman. Mind Blown! :o

Edited by stardust4ever, Fri May 3, 2013 2:41 PM.


#254 raindog OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 3, 2013 6:21 PM

By default, an Atari ROM is locked to a maximum of 4kbytes. What you are suggesting is putting a 4kb ROM on each separate cartridge and swapping them out as needed. DK VCS is already a 32kb ROM, with 8 individual 4kb banks.


http://atariage.com/...t/#entry2044591 :ponder:

We can build a special Melody that allows up to 128k ROM and 64k RAM.



#255 Kosmic Stardust ONLINE  

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Posted Fri May 3, 2013 9:41 PM

http://atariage.com/...t/#entry2044591 :ponder:

My point was that the Atari cart already uses bank switching, so the concept of swappable carts is unnecessary because it's already done in hardware.

I got an opportunity to play the ROM tonight. The first level is awesome with the rolling barrels. One thing I would change is to make the collision detection more forgiving. I died so many times due to grazing the barrels by a single pixel of Mario's foot. Another member suggested shrinking the size of the bounding box for collision detection. I think this would be a wonderful idea if it can be implemented. Currently it is difficult to jump the barrels successfully without ninja reflex timing. Also so far I haven't been successful in attempts at clearing barrels using a vertical jump. If Mario is facing away from the barrel or near the edge of the girder, a vertical jump may be the only option for escape. Also, the fireball seems to have a mind of it's own. Half the time I try to jump, it will reverse direction and I will land square on it.

When I finally beat the first stage, I noticed that the other stages don't seem to have changed a lot since the last revision. I did notice the cement "pies" were partially implemented though. Overall, the changes made so far look very nice and polished. IMHO, I don't think sloped girders are necessary as there's enough things to worry about despite other members' pleading. Due to the great cut scenes and animations, it's even more complete and faithful to the original than the 4-stage NES ROM that Nitnendo leaked to VC in 2010. I can't wait to buy this in the future from the Atariage store!

Edited by stardust4ever, Fri May 3, 2013 11:01 PM.


#256 NE146 ONLINE  

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Posted Sat May 4, 2013 1:47 PM

Wow not sure how I missed this thread over the past 4 months but I sure did miss it... It took someone linking to it in another forum post to find it. :lol:

That thing looks awesome (!) man even at the current version. People have been talking about something like this for years and you always had naysayers either stating it couldn't be done, or "why bother doing it since it already exists" etc.etc. but obviously it just took some creativity and you sir are doing it.. :D

#257 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 4, 2013 4:11 PM

People have been talking about something like this for years and you always had naysayers either stating it couldn't be done, or "why bother doing it since it already exists" etc.etc.


Not really, no. Everyone has pretty much assumed that it would be easy to make a better DK than the anemic Coleco version.

#258 5200FoxFlash OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 4, 2013 10:33 PM

Just discovering this as well and I think it's pretty amazing. For one, I love the music and sounds, they're awesome! And to see those graphics for DK at the top and he's animated?! Mind blown. And, I actually enjoy the scaling. To me, it makes the game seem grander, like a bigger adventure. Terrific work, can't wait to follow it's continued progression.

#259 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 5, 2013 2:31 PM

At the risk of sounding like a demanding entitled selfish person, any chances of adding a Pauline Edition to this? You're probably all out of spare cycles in your code but given how popular the Pauline Editions of various DK versions are out there in various forums I thought I'd at least ask if she and Mario can switch places in this homebrew?


I'm sorry. Unfortunately, there's no space left for that. All of the remaining ROM space is going to be used for implementing the game logic.

So, this would have to be a separate version. I will leave that to the ROM hackers.

#260 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 5, 2013 2:50 PM

Also so far I haven't been successful in attempts at clearing barrels using a vertical jump. If Mario is facing away from the barrel or near the edge of the girder, a vertical jump may be the only option for escape.


Thanks for the comments! It's actually possible to get over a barrel by just jumping up. I agree that it is very difficult. This should get better once there is a bounding box test.

Also, the fireball seems to have a mind of it's own. Half the time I try to jump, it will reverse direction and I will land square on it.


The fireball movement is completely random. The arcade version doesn't seem to behave much differently. For now I'll not try to make it more intelligent to save some space.

#261 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 5, 2013 3:02 PM

It's probably too early to do any fine tuning, but I would already be interested in knowing what people think about the current difficulty of stage 1. It should feel easier than the arcade because of the limitations in the number of sprites. The game will also get more difficult in later rounds.

So for L=1, do you think stage 1 is: too easy, OK, or too hard ?

(Is there a way to set up a poll in the middle of a thread ?)

#262 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 5, 2013 3:13 PM

I can only play games with real cartridges on real hardware. So I went ahead and built myself one, but it does not "function" properly?

When I power it on, I get the text splash screen, then the title screen, I can then hit reset, the game intro begins, everything sounds and looks absolutely perfect & beautiful I might add, and then the timer starts to count down, but I see no Mario on screen, no enemies, nothing at all. I am unable to move anything or anyone. just a static screen. Is this normal?

Does the build you have currently only work on emulators or is it supposed to run on real hardware?

I used a 27c256 eprom (32k) and have it on a regular Atari Age 32k board.
Does this game require a SARA chip?
Or are certain manufacturer's eprom's not compatible?

Edited by Supergun, Sun May 5, 2013 3:14 PM.


#263 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 5, 2013 4:33 PM

I can only play games with real cartridges on real hardware. So I went ahead and built myself one, but it does not "function" properly?

When I power it on, I get the text splash screen, then the title screen, I can then hit reset, the game intro begins, everything sounds and looks absolutely perfect & beautiful I might add, and then the timer starts to count down, but I see no Mario on screen, no enemies, nothing at all. I am unable to move anything or anyone. just a static screen. Is this normal?

Does the build you have currently only work on emulators or is it supposed to run on real hardware?

I used a 27c256 eprom (32k) and have it on a regular Atari Age 32k board.
Does this game require a SARA chip?
Or are certain manufacturer's eprom's not compatible?


Yes, SARA is a requirement. Mario's state is stored in extra RAM. If you don't have it, he will be stuck in his initial state, where he is turned off.

#264 Kosmic Stardust ONLINE  

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Posted Sun May 5, 2013 5:21 PM

I can only play games with real cartridges on real hardware. So I went ahead and built myself one, but it does not "function" properly?

Do yourself a huge favor and buy a harmony cart!


So for L=1, do you think stage 1 is: too easy, OK, or too hard ?

Too hard currently. I saw the Game Over screen 5 or 6 times before I beat stage 1. The main issue currently is clearing the barrels when I jump over them. If the difficulty on the first loop is too unforgiving it will drive players away from the game. I consider myself an average Donkey Kong player, and I can usually get to loop 3 or so on the NES version.

#265 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 5, 2013 6:22 PM

OK,
I don't know if I will like it or how much I will use it, but I went ahead and ordered a Harmony cartridge just to use for these types of applications.
Thanks for the advice.

Edited by Supergun, Sun May 5, 2013 6:40 PM.


#266 Kosmic Stardust ONLINE  

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Posted Sun May 5, 2013 8:33 PM

OK,
I don't know if I will like it or how much I will use it, but I went ahead and ordered a Harmony cartridge just to use for these types of applications.
Thanks for the advice.


You won't regret it... :D

#267 DeusVult OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 6, 2013 10:34 PM

It's probably too early to do any fine tuning, but I would already be interested in knowing what people think about the current difficulty of stage 1. It should feel easier than the arcade because of the limitations in the number of sprites. The game will also get more difficult in later rounds.

So for L=1, do you think stage 1 is: too easy, OK, or too hard ?

(Is there a way to set up a poll in the middle of a thread ?)


Level 1 is hard for me, took me 10-12 times. I cleared stage 2 in the first try. I wouldn't change level 1 to make it much easier, but level 2 needs to be more challeneging. I don't think trying even 25 times on the first level is a bad thing. (heck it took me forever to get to round three in "Kangaroo")

#268 kaz321123 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 7, 2013 1:37 AM

I just played this game. It is absolutely awesome! I too am amazed that this level of graphics could be on the 2600.

I too agree that the first level is a bit tough for difficulty. But it is mostly because of the fireball. It is very tough to clear it on a jump.

The barrels are pretty good-although it seems like you have to jump ahead of time to clear them. But the difficulty is fine for the barrels.

Please keep up the great work on donkey kong!

Now about those hammers...:P

#269 Goochman OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 7, 2013 6:01 AM

I think the level 1 difficulty will be fine once you adjust the hit box. I just worked it such that I got to a ladder without having to jump a barrel.

Only thing that might be better to fix is the fireball - you pretty much have to deal with him right away which is not like the arcade.

#270 NE146 ONLINE  

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Posted Tue May 7, 2013 6:05 AM

Yeah the fireballs are never easy to jump.. to the point it's better to avoid them. But in this version it's literally your first obstacle, And it means when the game starts, you have to wait on the right hand side for it to wander away to the left, so you can climb up a ladder.

I think it would be 100x better if that fireball started on the same platform mario starts on. i.e. It shouldn't be on the 2nd platform. That would be consistent with the way it is on the arcade version.. i.e. you simply have to run to the right immediately to get away from it.

#271 kaz321123 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 7, 2013 1:25 PM

Or consider this: Leave the fireball as it is, and stick a hammer right after the first ladder you climb.

Then you can immediately use the hammer against the fireball...with accompanying awesome sound effects :P

I know that's not arcade realistic-but neither is scrolling. I think it could be made to be 'fun' while not being overly 'arcade perfect'.

Love the game you made!

#272 Kosmic Stardust ONLINE  

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Posted Tue May 7, 2013 3:46 PM

I could go ape sh** on those barrels with that hammer! :lolblue:

#273 Joe Musashi OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 8, 2013 2:25 PM

I should mention that there can only be a single enemy per floor. Since the barrels fall from above and the oil drum is on the first floor, the fireball can only live on the second floor.

It would probably be most fun to have a hammer. A T-shaped hammer is not possible, but maybe I could pick up iesposta's idea and just draw a stick (missile).

#274 iesposta ONLINE  

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Posted Wed May 8, 2013 2:56 PM

:D It's a "ruler / yardstick." He is a carpenter. :)

#275 NE146 ONLINE  

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Posted Wed May 8, 2013 3:09 PM

I should mention that there can only be a single enemy per floor. Since the barrels fall from above and the oil drum is on the first floor, the fireball can only live on the second floor.


I would suggest that the oil barrel probably can be sacrificed. Just my opinion. :)




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