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Another World Jaguar Pre-Order


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#1451 CaptainBreakout OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 2:20 AM

As someone who collects the games he likes, and also appreciates the endevor of programming, and appreciates the technical challege of making a physical cart, I can see all sides here. It's certainly been an interesting read today. Very thought provoking... And nice because I had to work and it was a nice phone diversion.

... So with my phone buzzing on the responses to this thread, it was nice taking it into seclusion as opportunity allowed to see where it was all going.

As someone in my position (and being after midnight) I feel compelled to raise my hand.

So there's a few games I wish I had in cart.

I think that's a pretty understood feeling around here.

Now, to be grounded, I can say I have a lot of games on cart already, and I feel very lucky. I like to tell my son... 'when you can't have something you want, think of what you already have'.

I've tried to do that, especially recently, since I've been preaching it in a way.

So I don't have Another World, or Downfall+, and that's just the way it worked out.

I DO have some games that I hesitate to write. I've been at this for awhile. Rather than change the course of this thread into bragging and ball waving (and potential PM nightmare), I'll just say that I've got some stuff I'm happy I got.

Anyway I get the appeal of wanting homebrew games on a cart after one missed the boat on a limited run. It happens.

If you didn't get a copy, the universe or author doesn't owe you one. Even if you have money.

Really? Where does that feeling come from?

Personally I struggle with that concept, even tho I know better. Just because something exists doesn't mean I'm entitled to it, no matter how much I 'like it'. This is rational humility, and I wish it was better taught and understood, since I see the lack of it in threads everywhere whenever I obsess over unreleased ROMs and limited homebrews.

In short, its tempting to think we all have a right to own games that are out there, simply because they exist and one is obsessed with the platform. The reality is there is no 'right' for entitlement to anything, but occasionally one might be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to be in a spot to buy a game like this. Sometimes the author releases the rom, which can serve to reenforce that obsession. Anyway, if ya miss it, at least don't insist on making it the author's responsibility to compensate you based on some bullshit perceived 'right'. At least be as gracious as one can about it (this from guy who has actually asked for a copy of this game from the author, so take grace in context)


Other opportunities abound, and focus on those? Or just look at and appreciate what you already have, like I try to teach my son.

Anyways, that's my two cents, and it's arrived at with a lot of introspection.

#1452 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 2:24 AM

Anyways, that's my two cents, and it's arrived at with a lot of introspection.

 

Very well said, sir!



#1453 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 11:56 AM

Ff64 which I won't buy though Jeff is a friend I don't agree with how it was done, has sold 200+ copies. And it is a low profile piece.

Skunkboard s are still selling
There must be the better part of a 1000 out there now. And I still am the only Jaguar in the PNW besides mos6507 to o own one.

Which makes me wonder why Sebrmv thinks there is no validity to the worth of another run.

And how could FF64 have beaten Duranik/Matthias' release Impulse X.

#1454 Zerosquare OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 12:03 PM

Which makes me wonder why Sebrmv thinks there is no validity to the worth of another run.

And how could FF64 have beaten Duranik/Matthias' release Impulse X.

Different developers, different priorities.
Some spend a lot of time to get a high-quality result.
Some will release anything as long as there are buyers.

#1455 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 1:44 PM

Also I ran a lot of sales specials. 50% off and stuff

#1456 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 2:54 PM

Different developers, different priorities.
Some spend a lot of time to get a high-quality result.
Some will release anything as long as there are buyers.

That's specious.

@Jeff, I believe Impulse X's prices were lower overall.

Matthias' and Duranik must have their numbers skewed. I still can't see how FF64 outsold it.

Bad analogy but I also can't figure out how Avatar beat Jurassic Park at the box office either.

Edited by JagChris, Tue Sep 4, 2018 2:55 PM.


#1457 Zerosquare OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 3:00 PM

That's specious.

Do you even know what that word means?
If so, demonstrate how this is specious.

#1458 82-T/A OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 3:28 PM

Do you even know what that word means?
If so, demonstrate how this is specious.

 

I was walking down the street and saw this super hot girl off in the distance.

 

As I got closer, I realized she was speciously attractive.

 

As they say... good from far, but far from good!



#1459 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 3:43 PM

That's specious.
@Jeff, I believe Impulse X's prices were lower overall.
Matthias' and Duranik must have their numbers skewed. I still can't see how FF64 outsold it.
Bad analogy but I also can't figure out how Avatar beat Jurassic Park at the box office either.


Apparently people like the game...... I know its hard to swallow because you think a murder took place when it was released, but its true.

You should try the PC version

And you misunderstand. There were times I was selling the game for $20 CD and $30 carts. I even had buy one get one free going on

#1460 UHATEIT OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 4:09 PM

Apparently people like the game...... I know its hard to swallow because you think a murder took place when it was released, but its true.

You should try the PC version

And you misunderstand. There were times I was selling the game for $20 CD and $30 carts. I even had buy one get one free going on

I like the Fast Food 64 and Frogz CDs. I got them on the black Friday special last year for $10/each and didn't even have a Jag CD at the time to play them on.



#1461 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 4:25 PM

I like the Fast Food 64 and Frogz CDs. I got them on the black Friday special last year for $10/each and didn't even have a Jag CD at the time to play them on.


Why would you support Wave 1 Games? Don't you know that its all garbage and completely broken and unplayable? It gives folks who really put their blood sweat and tears and time away from their families to produce content for the Jag a bad name. Those games are a disease and should be PURGED from homebrew history.

You should demand a refund right away!

Did I pretty much cover all the points boys?

Lol

#1462 UHATEIT OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 5:25 PM

I wouldn't bash on them myself. I can't make shit for games. I wish I knew how. Frogz and Fast Food are fun to me. I'm still hoping your Sunset Riders game and the space ship one come out. Once Jagzombies is back up and fixed up I'll definitely need to get me a CD of it!

Edited by UHATEIT, Tue Sep 4, 2018 5:26 PM.


#1463 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 5:38 PM

Do you even know what that word means?If so, demonstrate how this is specious.


I sure do or i wouldn't have used it.

It basically means something that sounds reasonable but falls apart when you look closer at it.

It's specious because I'm talking about sales. Actual sales driven by public demand.

You're talking about developer motivation which in this case should have the opposite effect.

Did you actually read what I posted before you replied initially?

#1464 Stage_1_Boss OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 5:43 PM

Why would you support Wave 1 Games? Don't you know that its all garbage and completely broken and unplayable? It gives folks who really put their blood sweat and tears and time away from their families to produce content for the Jag a bad name. Those games are a disease and should be PURGED from homebrew history.

You should demand a refund right away!

Did I pretty much cover all the points boys?

Lol

Please don't act like that man, it's like asking for conflict when you know you could continue work on your games before releasing that first batch.

#1465 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 5:45 PM

Apparently people like the game...... I know its hard to swallow because you think a murder took place when it was released, but its true.
You should try the PC version
And you misunderstand. There were times I was selling the game for $20 CD and $30 carts. I even had buy one get one free going on


I realize people like it. And that's good. But with the rushed release to, by your own statements, ease your financial difficulties. I

Along with the obvious problems, bugs and people abstaining for those reasons I find it hard to believe that Impulse X got beat in sales. The price s were comparable. But then you factor in the quality difference and I'm even more baffled.

#1466 Zerosquare OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 5:57 PM

Actual sales driven by public demand.

No, public demand is not the only factor driving sales.

If a developer manufactures X copies, people won't be able to buy more than X, whatever happens. Even if there is demand for more, said developer may not want (or be able) to invest time and money to make more. The higher the production standards, the more time and money is needed.

Another factor is advertising. A game that's advertised and hyped everywhere will sell more than one that isn't. Some developers aren't good at this, or find that their time is better spent polishing their game instead.

There's nothing surprising about it. A typical mediocre hot-dog stand probably sells more food than a fine restaurant, too.
(Except that with the Jaguar, lots of buyers don't even eat their hot-dog ; they either put it on a shelf, or resell it on eBay for a higher price.)

#1467 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 6:19 PM

If X amount is made then that's the publishers choice. As far as production standards surely they can't be more grueling than Skunkboard runs. And we keep seeing new runs and the continued sales of those.

But what I'm referring to is Impulse X sales compared to FF64 in this instance.

#1468 LinkoVitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 7:11 PM

If X amount is made then that's the publishers choice. As far as production standards surely they can't be more grueling than Skunkboard runs. And we keep seeing new runs and the continued sales of those.


You mean like the batch where the pcb was slightly too thick and damaged the cart connectors?

Or the runs without beveled edges that also damaged cart connectors?

Slapping chips on a board, writing on the case in crayon and stuffing it in an envelope is easy. The game probably will work. It wont be a quality release though, those take time and effort.

There will be minimum run costs for labels and boxes (as they are quality, not run off on a crappy inkjet), there is sourcing media, burning, building, testing. Technically RoHS is likely to come into play for physical hardware, which limits aspects further.

So it is quite a big undertaking for a small outfit to do, especially if they care about the end result and not just making a quick buck.

#1469 Zerosquare OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 7:16 PM

what I'm referring to is Impulse X sales compared to FF64 in this instance.

One of them is optimized for sales: minimal effort, mass produced, heavily promoted.
The other one is optimized for quality.

Strangely enough, the one optimized for sales sells more. Weird, eh?

Not to mention the Jaguar market is way more interesting for speculators now that it was when Impulse X was released.

Edited by Zerosquare, Tue Sep 4, 2018 7:17 PM.


#1470 icemanxp300 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 7:25 PM

Seriously what does quality of game have to do w/production of game? You guys make it sound like there are not numerous outlets available to get these games made. If said person didn't want to manufacture the games themselves they could easily source it out. If said person didn't have the time, they could easily source it out. As far as manufacturing goes that's a lame excuse to use as to why these games have stopped being sold.

 

Even if someone spent 10 times as much time to developing a game to make sure it was awesome, that has jack to do with why they don't continue sales of said game.

 

 

FYI I was asked again today to make this dumb game.



#1471 Zerosquare OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 7:42 PM

Even if someone spent 10 times as much time to developing a game to make sure it was awesome, that has jack to do with why they don't continue sales of said game.

Maybe they don't want the hassle.
Maybe they have higher quality standards for manufacturing than yours.
Maybe they don't want to outsource to someone who considers that respecting the work of homebrew authors is a privilege that can be revoked whenever he wants.
Maybe they just don't care about the money.

 

Maybe someday you'll write your own game, instead off relying 100% on stuff other people created and processes other people designed.

Maybe you'll see your game as your own creation instead of a just a revenue stream.

Maybe that day you'll understand.


Edited by Zerosquare, Tue Sep 4, 2018 7:43 PM.


#1472 icemanxp300 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 8:53 PM

I know you assholes believe I repro anything and everything but I don't.

 

Jag games I have sold:

 

Karts, Rayman, attack of mutant penguins, Defender 2000, Power Driver Rally.

 

I as well did some of Iron Soldier 2, Towers 2, and Zero 5 before I knew about Telegames UK. Once I realized they were still selling games outside the US I stopped making those. It was an unfortunate oversight on my part.

 

I know you are prolly telling people left and right I do BSG, Downfall, and every other game out there.

 

There is a simple fact here and that is outside of what I listed above I have not sold a single other jag repro and not one of you can say otherwise or you are a liar. Granted I have made games for Jeff, but I never sold them, he completed them and sold them.

 

FYI my repros are good. I have the proper equipment and I use REAL donors so up yours. If I sold garbage I would not be selling repros in this market.

 

Lastly maybe I was not referring to me making these games because quite frankly I hate all you people and wouldn't help you sell your games if you asked me.

 

I sure as hell am not directing people to the proper sources to buy these games anymore either. I'll let them fish until they find the hozers to make these games for them.



#1473 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 9:00 PM

I know you assholes believe I repro anything and everything but I don't.

 

...blahblahblah...

 

Lastly maybe I was not referring to me making these games because quite frankly I hate all you people and wouldn't help you sell your games if you asked me.

 

I sure as hell am not directing people to the proper sources to buy these games anymore either. I'll let them fish until they find the hozers to make these games for them.

 

Good bye, you have worn out your welcome here. 

 

 ..Al



#1474 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 8:13 AM

You mean like the batch where the pcb was slightly too thick and damaged the cart connectors?

Or the runs without beveled edges that also damaged cart connectors?


Yeah they screwed up a run probably trying a cheaper vendor. But at that point had already produced a greater quantity of quality runs than Another World. And now are back on track it seems and still producing more.

And taking into account every Skunkboard is probably twice as involved to produce as a game cartridge it chews up even more the limited run because of x,y and z excuses.

#1475 Zerosquare OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 8:31 AM

every Skunkboard is probably twice as involved to produce as a game cartridge

It's the opposite.

 

Production steps for Skunkboards:

- handling orders

- having the PCBs manufactured

- shipping orders

 

Production steps for Another World:

- all of the above, plus...

- getting cartridge cases

- getting the cardboard boxes printed (Another World uses offset printing instead of the usual digital printing, which is higher quality and more expensive)

- getting the cartridge stickers printed

- getting the manual printed

- programming the PCBs

- gluing the cartridge stickers

- assembling the cartridge cases

- assembling the cardboard boxes and cartridge holders

 

As usual, you're talking about things you know nothing about.






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