ssj Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Thanks! You probably need to upload the 600dpi version to a file hosting service like mediafire, I'm pretty sure that goes over the attachment file size limit here. Yeah I see what you mean, but this should be possible to fix with some post processing. Maybe your box has some sort of bump in the middle of it? That kind of issue normally happens on those cases what I usually do is to put some slightly heavy object inside the box when scanning so remove the bump and make the box touch the scanner glass. Any chance you could scan all the other 5 sides as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckafka99 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Thanks! You probably need to upload the 600dpi version to a file hosting service like mediafire, I'm pretty sure that goes over the attachment file size limit here. Yeah I see what you mean, but this should be possible to fix with some post processing. Maybe your box has some sort of bump in the middle of it? That kind of issue normally happens on those cases what I usually do is to put some slightly heavy object inside the box when scanning so remove the bump and make the box touch the scanner glass. Any chance you could scan all the other 5 sides as well? As soon as I get the chance (maybe tomorrow morning before I head off for work), I'll try the 'put something inside' trick and rescan the top and also scan the top/bottom/left/right edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger_lennier Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Yeah, I think the problem is that the box is a little bent, so parts of it aren't up against the scanner glass and end up being captured out of focus. Some scanners are better about this than others. If weighting it down doesn't help, you might think about what scanners you have access to (from work, for example). Probably dedicated scanners will be better than the ones build into printers. I love my "Epson Perfection 4490 Photo" scanner, but of course most people don't scan as much as I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckafka99 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 You were right about the bow in the top of the box. The attached contains all 5 edges. The label on my box doesnt appear to have been perfectly aligned when it was put on the box as can be seen from the top of the scan and also the bottom edge where you can see the seam. Let me know if these will work. TV_Sch_1.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssj Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 They all look good to me now, thanks for taking the time to scan them! Just out curiosity, what's the size of this box compared with the regular Studio 2 boxes? I wonder if Bingo was ever released if it would have been in a similar box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckafka99 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 They all look good to me now, thanks for taking the time to scan them! Just out curiosity, what's the size of this box compared with the regular Studio 2 boxes? I wonder if Bingo was ever released if it would have been in a similar box. I can measure when I get home tonight. The bigger size is to accommodate the workbooks that come with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 They all look good to me now, thanks for taking the time to scan them! Just out curiosity, what's the size of this box compared with the regular Studio 2 boxes? I wonder if Bingo was ever released if it would have been in a similar box. By all accounts (from those who saw it the one time a copy surfaced back in 2001) the US version of Bingo was also in an oversized box of the same dimensions as the TV Schoolhouse I box, so as to fit the marker chips and bingo cards. Tempest, Ianoid, Al Backiel, and others saw it firsthand, though nobody had a camera at the time. What is interesting is that the overseas Bingo releases DO NOT have anything other than the usual cartridge and brief instructions manual. Speaking of which, does anyone have a manual scan of the overseas Bingo versions? I'd like to check it for something particular... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckafka99 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Box Measurements.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssj Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 mckafka99: Thanks! Blazing Lazers: Good info, and just as I suspected. Too bad there are no pictures of it, I wonder if anyone still remembers what the box looked like (colors, artwork, etc.) we are trying to create a mockup of it to use in emulator frontends. ranger_lennier posted scans for the MPT-02 Bingo manual in this thread already together with all the other scans he made, but I can reupload those if you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 mckafka99: Thanks! Blazing Lazers: Good info, and just as I suspected. Too bad there are no pictures of it, I wonder if anyone still remembers what the box looked like (colors, artwork, etc.) we are trying to create a mockup of it to use in emulator frontends. ranger_lennier posted scans for the MPT-02 Bingo manual in this thread already together with all the other scans he made, but I can reupload those if you need. I'll check those scans, then. Thanks for shortening the search As for making a box mockup, PLEASE DON'T. If anything, just make a box with a big question mark on it. A real box will turn up at some point, but until that happens there should'nt be any chance of confusion as to what one would look like. And given how easily mistaken beliefs and assumptions can become widespread in videogaming circles, any mockup could become assumed as an actual box. Or worse, a scammer might use such a mockup to make a forgery of a US Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssj Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Mockup boxes have been done since ages to use in frontends and I don't see any harm on them, I'm talking about an image only I'm not producing any real boxes. Also if anyone buys a box created based on a mockup for such a rare game then he clearly has no clue and didn't make enough research, I mean come on it would be just be pathetic to buy something like this which would surely be expensive without making sure it's the real thing and at least do a minimum research. Also anyone can make a box for Bingo already and try to sell it as the real deal so honestly creating custom artwork for the purpose of using with frontends won't make this any better or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Mockup boxes have been done since ages to use in frontends and I don't see any harm on them, I'm talking about an image only I'm not producing any real boxes. Also if anyone buys a box created based on a mockup for such a rare game then he clearly has no clue and didn't make enough research, I mean come on it would be just be pathetic to buy something like this which would surely be expensive without making sure it's the real thing and at least do a minimum research. Also anyone can make a box for Bingo already and try to sell it as the real deal so honestly creating custom artwork for the purpose of using with frontends won't make this any better or worse. Best not to even take the chance of a physical repro or fake being made. In any event, there's also enough contradictions about the color of the box from those who did see it. Logically it would be blue, the color of the TV Casino Series, yet multiple reliable witnesses distinctly mention it being red in color, as many as have said it was blue. It is known to be the same size as the only other oversized box, which was red in color. It must be one of those colors, yet there's enough uncertainty about the appearance alone to justify waiting for an authentic copy to surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Just a quick update: I'll be meeting up with Fauxscot in a week or so. Is there anything in particular any of y'all would like me to ask him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymailman Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Just a quick update: I'll be meeting up with Fauxscot in a week or so. Is there anything in particular any of y'all would like me to ask him? Nice, I haven't seen any posts from him in a while. Below would cover my interests. 1) How is he doing? 2) Any updates on a possible multi-cart with all original releases and the homebrews. 3) Composite Video Mod service. 4) Power Mod service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Nice, I haven't seen any posts from him in a while. Below would cover my interests. 1) How is he doing? 2) Any updates on a possible multi-cart with all original releases and the homebrews. 3) Composite Video Mod service. 4) Power Mod service. Will do Among other topics we'll likely be able to hammer out some details on those. We know that all are possible, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Finally met up with Fauxscot in person earlier today! He's a true genius and has done some truly amazing things, and still does. Fascinating conversation, and not just about the Studio II. Turns out he had a lot of involvement with TI and the TI-99 in particular, including writing a bunch of the assembly code for its underlying system components and some other stuff. So that's two videogame platforms he's been involved with! But we didn't get to talk too much about that. We did discuss the operations of Swannanoa plant and many of his old colleagues there- a lot of good leads were provided, though many are probably no longer among the living, or are VERY old if they are. There will be more to follow, and Fauxscot said he'll resume posting (he's been busy). For now, here's a few tidbits: Bingo may well have been made in a very small batch of around a dozen or so copies, but probably at the RCA facilities up in Deptford, NJ, which apparently did have the capability to make very small batches of prototypes and sales samples. We already know it was programmed for the US, and at least one US copy was seen at the Philly Classic show in the hands of (possibly Dan McIntyre) who either found it and a store display and demonstration cart at a flea market or at a mom and pop electronics store in Pennsylvania. Fauxscot confirmed that employees were allowed to take home various items and inventory that were otherwise being thrown out or discarded, and this is very likely what happened in Deptford. This also dovetails neatly with the "trash-find" article where somebody found various Studio II titles among other RCA memorabilia in NJ, which included a Demonstration cartridge. There may really only be a few surviving copies, if any. He suggested tracking down Deptford plant employees from the time as being the best way of locating a copy. All of the assembling of systems and games was done in Swannanoa, but the boxes, paperwork, casings, stickers, circuit boards, etc were sourced from other companies and shipped to Swannanoa, where they were assembled. We did get to go into some detail about the manufacturing process, and 3,000 cartridges a day were being assembled down there.Sometimes they'd get deliveries of only cartridge shell tops, but not bottoms, or shells that weren't properly sized, etc. This would also explain how some shells and boxes have aged differently over time, as the actual printing and production of them was dome by multiple outside companies that shipped it all to Swannanoa for assembly. The overall manufacturing head at the plant, Fauxscot's boss at the time, who I have been able to reach (he's the source for the RCA arcade machine at the NJ mall) would assign around 600 copies of Blackjack to made out of the total 3,000 for the day, another of the same amount for Tennis/Squash, Math Fun, and so on, depending on what he was instructed via Deptford and various sales figures. The later games like Gunfighter/Moonship Battle and Speedway/Tag would have had a much smaller share of the daily 3,000 made, and only have ever had a few thousand copies made in total. This is why Blackjack is a guaranteed find with a system but the later two hardly ever show up. On a related note to the above point, Fauxscot's old boss actually bought a system and all of the games made for it in Swannanoa, which he was kind enough to send to me. Bingo Speedway/Tag were the only two not among them, and are thus the only titles that cannot be confirmed as having been produced in NC. Speedway/Tag might not have even been made in NC, but instead in limited quantities up North, or in very small amounts in NC. It is almost certainly the title with the smallest production run of any of the confirmed US releases. Small enough quantities for there to have been no spare inventory of it back in the day. Three different options for a multicart are possible. One is a traditional multicart, which could be either dip-switch or menu driven. Another involves placing a Raspberry Pi into a Studio II cart shell, and making a hole for the USB connector. A third approach involves another sort of Raspberry Pi sort of ultra small computer into an empty cart shell, which could also theoretically house an A/V out mod in the manner of certain Atari Jaguar Scatbox carts. We should soon be Fauxscot was able to prove than an A/V mod is possible, and did so months ago. All that remains now is to actually perform it on actual hardware, though it will need a small boost. A power mod is also possible, and in fact the switchbox and power adapter can be completely done away with in favor of much more streamlined solutions straight out of the systems. He can also still repair systems as well, beyond the 4 he has already fixed up. Not as an ongoing service (his time's too valuable), but can do so for members of the community here. We should be seeing him again in the months to come more to follow... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stupus Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Great stuff Jack! Thanks for the update and all the info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari2008 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Great stuff Jack! Thanks for the update and all the info AGREED!!! So. Awesome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Quick question for y'all: does anyone know the user who goes by the name "Am4zingGam3r" on RFGeneration and NintendoAge? I noticed a while back that the Bingo entry at RF Generation lists him as having it in his collection, but I haven't been able to contact him. Is this just a mistake, or could he really have a copy? Here's the entry below: http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/getinfo.pl?ID=U-006-S-00020-A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 I think the main debate when it comes to the US-Bingo... is: Was it a prototype/sample... or an actual retail copy? What seems to have been the plan with the "Studio III" was to make games that were backwards compatible. Both "Biorythm" and "TV School House II" have colour information programmed in the carts. Even tho anyone with a Studio II at the time and even now would not be able to see any colour or even realise it's meant to be in colour. We know from this topic via a conversation Blazing Lazers had with a Studio II programmer.. that he (the programmer) made "Bingo". The "Studio III" never came out and it is assumed that they just sold the license abroad and all the games for it abroad. This of course included "Bingo". What interests me is this question: Was "Star Wars", "Concentration Match" and "Pinball" also programmed by RCA? I personally find it unlikely that these games were made abroad. I think that these were games that had also been developed for the "Studio III" but were never released... unless someone out there has some mystery Prototype. I was re-reading through the thread looking for something else (the research is still ongoing) and soon thereafter I took a closer look at the following site: http://chip8.com/?page=84 Scroll down to the bottom. It indicates that Andy Modla is also the programmer for the Pinball game, which was not something he had previously shared with me in the brief messages we exchanged (though I only asked about Bingo). This STRONGLY confirms your hunch, one that I agree with, that RCA in the US had more games programmed than were released, and somehow only saw overseas releases. Though perhaps Pinball might have gotten a limited US release, or was planned for one? The site also mentions a "Message Center" program too, whatever that is. Btw, the Joseph Weisbecker who did the drawing game (the built-in Doodle) was also the guy who created the system code by some accounts. He likely worked on the other built-in games as well. Regrettably, he has since passed away. Andy Modla would know more, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Sometimes you feel like an idiot for overlooking things in plain sight that were there all along. It never occurred to me to look into Joseph Weisbecker, the guy who programmed the core of the Studio II, since he had passed away long ago. I should have, because the following biography was the first result that came up and contains some very interesting tidbits: http://www.cosmacelf.com/weisbecker.html Developed a prototype programmable video game aimed at the coin-operated amusement industry. This included a programmable sound IC which would later provide an SSD product. (1975) (This would be what Leonard, Fauxscot's boss from the Swannanoa plant, told me he saw in a NJ shopping mall on business trips up North) Created the RCA Studio II video game. This was one of the first two programmable video games on the market and created a new business for RCA. This design was 50% less complex than the competitive product and introduced low cost keyboard game control, limited user programmability, and programming techniques which minimize the cost of add-on ROM cards. Wrote much of the original software for this pioneering system. (1975) Developed a low cost graphic color display approach which formed the basis of Studio III... a second generation RCA video game product. (1976) Developed the architecture and new programming language for a third generation RCA video game with high resolution color and extensive system expansion capability. (1977) So not only does this confirm the early years of when the Studio II was designed (and by extension why it was technically inferior to the Channel F), but that it was originally an arcade multi-game. Possibly the first such! And that there WAS a Studio III, just like rumors that reached the Swannanoa plant indicated, and which is very likely the basis of all the foreign clones, and which was in development by 1976, just as the Studio II was getting ready to enter the market. And that there were also plans for another successor system with higher resolution color AND "extensive system expansion capability". I think the following happened must be what happened: RCA decides in 1975 to create a multi-game arcade machine, but initial public reaction at the mall(s?) in nearby NJ was unfavorable. Noticing that the home market is emerging, they decide to turn the 5-game arcade machine into the Studio II TV Home Programmer and also make money selling additional cartridges. They probably knew their rival Fairchild was planning something similar. They didn't know/realize/care that Fairchild's technology was newer and specifically designed for televisions, rather than being re-conceptualized arcade hardware. The time it must have taken them to redesign it for the home market allowed Fairchild to come up with superior technology, and release it sooner, in late 1976. Knowing this, RCA initiates development work on a better version of the Studio II with color and backwards compatibility (and probably, better controls) with plans to release it as a successor. They even develop games with it in mind, as indicated by how Biorhythm and Math Fun can display in color. Plans are also made for a future system with greater color and expansion capabilities. Unfortunately, RCA underestimated how badly the Studio II would bomb in the marketplace, and dismal sales force them to halt work on the third-generation system (Studio IV?) and discontinue sales of the Studio II in 1977 (production lasted less than year, according to both Leonard and Fauxscot). Production/assembly on the last few Studio II games, Speedway/Tag and Gunfighter/Moonship Battle, is halted, and only a few dozen (at most) pre-production sample copies of Bingo are produced. Other developed and finished games such as Pinball never make it to production in the US. That leaves the mostly, and probably completely finished Studio III hardware. Already fully backwards compatible with existing programs, and with several unreleased games available, RCA realizes that while the Studio III would not be able to compete in the US it could do well overseas, and thus sells the Studio III IP and games to the overseas companies who go on to release the system and games in various "clone" incarnations. Japan even sees Japanese-specific titles developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLD1985 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) and thus sells the Studio III IP and games to the overseas companies who go on to release the system and games in various "clone" incarnations. Japan even sees Japanese-specific titles developed. The "Euro/Australian" clones do seem to be 100% "Studio III"s. Apart from minor differences/designs of the system, they mostly have the same stuff in them. They all share identical cartridge casings from whatever factory was actually making them in Hong Kong. The Japanese clone is somewhat special. As effort was made by someone (the assumption would be Toshiba) to modify(and improve??) the Studio III as it's designed differently and games are not cross compatible because of this. The colours are different. The carts are different. The pin outs are different. The way the memory is mapped is different. Sadly we still only have 1 rom dump for the Visicom. Edited November 14, 2014 by TLD1985 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure they though that it would "do well" overseas". I think thet they probably wanted to save a bit of money, and small companies in Europe saw interest in getting a complete product for nothing that offered a bit more than Pong systems. However, I only have seen RCA II clones here for sale only twice in 3 years. Even "rare" stuff such as the Interton VC 4000 is dirst common next to the RCA II Euroclones, despite ITMC making a new batch of them for sell as a very low cost console system (the kind that you found as gift or "add 15$ and you get a video game system" on mail order) as late as 1983! Edit : I wouldn't swear, because I never got one in my hands, but it's more than likely that all those clones were from the unfamous company "Soundic" that made something like 90% of the pong consoles sold in Europe (and probably a good share of the US ones) and was also responsaible for all the other non Pong consoles sold by Hanimex, ITMC, Grandstand and the likes; except maybe for the Interton VC 4000 clones, but even those were made and programmed in Honk Kong, despite Interton's claims that is was 100% German (which, being a Philips-made association of CPU and GPU, is a false claim from the very beginning.) Edited November 15, 2014 by CatPix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 Another update: Apparently the daughter of system coder Joseph Wesibecker, Joyce Weisbecker, resides in NJ and is active to an extent in retro computing circles, as this online discussion indicates: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/midatlanticretro/conversations/messages/4197 She also helpfully provides the following contact info: Alexander B. Magoun, Ph.D.Executive DirectorDavid Sarnoff Library201 Washington Road, CN 5300Princeton, NJ 08543-5300 609-734-2636amagoun@...(f) 609-734-2339www.davidsarnoff.orgwww.davidsarnoff.blogspot.com the blogspot page also mentions the following, which I quote: "Presumably readers are aware the David Sarnoff Library closed its doors at Sarnoff Corporation in Princeton at the end of 2009. Naturally we were all unhappy with that decision, but thanks to the board of directors, volunteers, and project staff, we managed to find new and productive homes for the archival and artifact collections. The Hagley Library in Wilmington, Delaware, is presently engaged in archivally digesting 2,200 cubic feet of RCA lab notebooks, reports, photos, and other largely paper-based collections. The Camden County Historical Society received several late-1940s RCA Victor "home instruments" made in Camden. InfoAge's Marconi Hotel in Wall Township, NJ, received the RCA Broadcast Equipment manuals collection and a painting of David Sarnoff, which was appropriate since Sarnoff visited several times. And last but hardly least, The College of New Jersey received the museum collection for resurrection as a teaching museum. Given the state's budget crisis, it may be awhile before visitors can once again appreciate the remarkable stories and themes comprised in Sarnoff's life and RCA's arc. But we wish Dean John Laughton and new curator Emily Croll well in rising to this exciting and worthy challenge." /quote Needless to say, I've already reached out to both and will report back anything they might be able to tell us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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