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Xbox killed the used game

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#26 Algus OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 24, 2013 8:55 AM

Honestly, I don't even want the physical media with the scheme they are talking about. PC game discs are worthless to me and so will Xbox One discs. As much as I've enjoyed whining about the Xbone on here, I'd completely consider a Steam-powered console. Their pricing scheme and customer service is great and if they (or someone like them) brought out a digital-only console I would completely consider it.

But after having had Live all these years, I have zero confidence in Microsoft to have any degree of flexibility when it comes to pricing. Or customer service. I'm pretty sure their service reps are grown in hatcheries.

#27 DesertJets OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 24, 2013 9:06 AM

I am of the mind that a healthy 2nd hand market is a very good indicator of the strength of that particular console.... I mean afterall somebody had to have bought those games new in the first place. Frankly I think MS and Sony would have to be completely utterly insane to make the use of used software overly restrictive. A healthy used market gets more people to make that decision to buy the hardware and ultimately if they saved a few bucks on some software they maybe inclined to make a few more purchases on XBox Live and if they are really satisfied actually pay full retail when that next great AAA title comes out. To clamp down on used software would also effectively kill a few of their major retailers. I know GameStop isn't Walmart or Amazon, but GameStops are almost everywhere.

#28 Crazy Climber OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 24, 2013 9:27 AM

WE are not there target market so THEY don't care what we think. It's just going to be an expensive call of duty or madden machine anyways. XBOX 360 was the last chance to game/collect/etc for our generation, the Wii U might still have a chance at filling the void but so far it sucks...

Edited by Crazy Climber, Fri May 24, 2013 9:28 AM.


#29 Video OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 24, 2013 1:28 PM

A used market is necessary for a healthy new market. I mean, seriously, how many people buy a new console and nothing but new games? I got a disposable income and even I don't do that. The availability of used games is a big part of why I bought the 360 (that, and the supposed backwards compatibility that never came)

I still buy new games, but the new games alone will never make me buy a console, because I simply can't afford that. As long as I can buy used games, I'll buy new consoles, but if that's no longer the case, I'll look elsewhere.

not like I don't have a backlog of games for older consoles that I can never play in my entire life anyways LOL

#30 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 25, 2013 11:22 AM

A used market is necessary for a healthy new market. I mean, seriously, how many people buy a new console and nothing but new games?


just about everybody before the late 90's, on occasion you would find a small bin outside of EB with copys of last years sport games, or something in the traders post newspaper, but yea used games? there wasnt a funco and 2 gamestop and a game trader all within a 3 mile radius like there is today

#31 Algus OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 25, 2013 4:05 PM

Hmm, there were lots of mom and pop joints around here before the late 90s. We used to have this store called Gamer's that did new/used (and were big on advertising their trade-in option) and rentals as well. They had this huge rack of cheap NES games. To bad I was a dumb kid and didn't realize I'd want a lot of those games when I got older.

Once Gamestop showed up that was all for Gamers though. There's only a couple mom & pop joints left (hell that's all that's left for gamestores outside of the Stop now)

#32 Jess Ragan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 26, 2013 9:23 PM

The regulation of used game sales will put a permanent end to smaller game stores. None of them will be able to afford the computers and software Microsoft will use to track game sales, and even if they could, the cut they'll get from those sales will be pathetic anyway. I don't think they'll get much refuge from Sony, either. My suspicion is that they've got a similar (if not identical) system in place for the Playstation 4.

#33 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 26, 2013 9:30 PM

I cant vouch for the software, but its 2013, you dont need the top of the line gaming rig to run most of anything including games ... the argument that a ma-pa cant buy a used P4 compaq pizzabox for 10 bucks is not an argument.

#34 Jess Ragan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 26, 2013 10:19 PM

You don't understand. The early reports about the Xbox One suggest that a game store will need to have special software on its computers that can transfer the rights to used games. Here's more about that:

http://www.videogame...les_report.html

They'll give that software to the big retailers- GameStop, Best Buy, and the like- but probably not the smaller businesses, like Joey's Hometown Game Store, or the skeezy pawn shop downtown. Ordinary gamers certainly won't have access to it... but man will it be glorious when some hacker cracks the system and embarrasses Microsoft in the process!

#35 DaytonaUSA OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 26, 2013 11:10 PM

It is a shame. It's something we've talked about on our podcast. When the Xbox One is old and replaced by it's successor, and the Xbox One's online is cut, now what?

Not only any game discs you buy after the online has been turned off be useless as you won't be able to couple them with the system, but your EXISTING games won't be useable at all!

Think about it. The Xbox One needs to check in every 24 hours to make sure your games are legit. That means even all the games you bought are now useless.

This effectively will make the Xbox One completely WORTHLESS. Not just the used game market, but the system won't be able to play jack diddly squat after it's online functions are cut.

It'll be the shortest lived system, no matter how many they sell, as it'll be the only system to never be able to play a game after it's official death. Personally, I hope the thing sells like crap. If it sells, then we're sending a message that we WANT this. Screw that. I play my systems LONG after they're dead.

#36 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 26, 2013 11:28 PM

You don't understand. The early reports about the Xbox One suggest that a game store will need to have special software on its computers that can transfer the rights to used games. Here's more about that:

http://www.videogame...les_report.html

They'll give that software to the big retailers- GameStop, Best Buy, and the like- but probably not the smaller businesses, like Joey's Hometown Game Store, or the skeezy pawn shop downtown. Ordinary gamers certainly won't have access to it... but man will it be glorious when some hacker cracks the system and embarrasses Microsoft in the process!


no I perfectly understand they will need software

put a permanent end to smaller game stores. None of them will be able to afford the computers


bzzt wrong, dont play that heartache, computers are so disposable its very common place to fish them out of the dumpster (I rather shockingly do at my apartment complex, most recent being a 2ghz dual core 3gb AMD machine with a blue screen on boot xp install, thats how worthless they are, anything minor and its off to walmart)

even the software wont be all that expensive, your hocking 4.99 used video games that sell to a niche in a 40 - 100 grand a month storefront, not buying your sale

Edited by Osgeld, Sun May 26, 2013 11:30 PM.


#37 shadow460 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 26, 2013 11:35 PM

Rest assured, someone will hack the Xbox One to remove the check in requirement. They'll probably even create a program that can simulate a cloud on the user's own network. to allow use of games with cloud computing. Think about it. The PS2 and PSP were both hacked for similar purposes. Some of us have hacked up our classic consoles for different reasons...keep up with the newest TV sets, play games they were never meant to play (32X on LaserActive for example), etc.
What comes to mind is the Saturn. It has a sort of online component, which back in the day required players to connect over POTS lines. The plain old telephone system can now be simulated with a piece of hardware you'd spend $100 or less on, then you can get your Bomberman fix all day with a couple of Saturns and a couple of old TVs.

As far as I'm concerned, used game sales were killed off when game companies decided to use an optical disk as storage. ;)


This is definitely true. I've seen several collectors and resellers alike move to cartridge based systems only. That's due in part to the fact discs just don't hold up well. I've got cartridges that are still in perfect condition even though they were made in 1977, and I've got five year old discs that are useless. Discs just don't hold up over time. UMDs do have a slightly better chance at life due to the protective case, but it's not much. IMO, the main thing that saves the discs is hacking a system so they're not needed, and therefore never taken out of the case.

#38 DaytonaUSA OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 26, 2013 11:39 PM

Most people don't hack, nor know you can hack (or how to hack ) consoles. People like us, on sites like this, are a HUGE minority in the gaming world. Most people will try to log in, it won't, then assume the Xbox One is utterly useless and throw them away. I doubt most will keep it as on the market (Gamestop and the like.. mainstream sites) it'll hold absolutely no value.

#39 fiddlepaddle OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 27, 2013 1:52 PM

One example of an analogous market today is all those people who have Kindles and download books and movies. The selection may not be as good as a book store, but they're essentially free. The issue is that you are only licensed to read them; you don't own them and can't sell them. My sister does this and couldn't care less about the restriction, which is not relevant to her. I think most current-gen game players will behave that way... Play through the game, then forget about it. It's (the small number of) us who enjoy the older games who will be outta luck.

#40 jhd OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 27, 2013 3:34 PM

Think about it. The Xbox One needs to check in every 24 hours to make sure your games are legit. That means even all the games you bought are now useless.

This effectively will make the Xbox One completely WORTHLESS. Not just the used game market, but the system won't be able to play jack diddly squat after it's online functions are cut.


A useful comparison can be made with things like the Sega Channel and the Intellivision Playcable systems (or even the Gameline modem for the Atari 2600). The hardware certainly still exists, and hardcore collectors still desire to posess it, but none of these devices have any more functionality than a paperweight since their online services have long ago ceased to exist.

#41 Algus OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 27, 2013 3:42 PM

If I owned a game store, affording the equipment and software (and training my personnel...if I had any) would be the least of my worries. The rumored profit-sharing scheme where the stores only retain 10% of the proceeds would terrify me.

Consumers can kiss goodbye to their trade-ins having any value at all (stores would have to offer under $10 on games they planned to resell for $45 or $50...and that's assuming they keep more than 10% of the proceeds) and stores will be making very thin profit margins...if they are even able to turn a profit on their used Xbone games.

Even if Microsoft only took a 20% cut of the sale (10 for them, 10 for the publisher), which is more realistic IMO if they want to retain any goodwill within the industry, you're going to see trade-in values decrease and average used prices increase as stores try to make up for lost profits.

#42 shadow460 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 27, 2013 7:40 PM

I do agree that any used game restriction will wipe out some key game stores. Game X Change around here is owned by one person. They're worried right now that if GameStop goes to selling classics, they (Game X Change) will go under. The chain has decreased from six or eight stores to just two as it is. Vintage Stock is pretty big and has a broad selection of stuff from comic books to movies to games, toys, etc. Still, I'd hate to see them as the only classic game shop in town. They moved into next to a Play N Trade in Edmond. Not long after, that PnT folded like a newspaper. The sad thing is that one person holds the rights to PnT franchising in Oklahoma City, so we're not likely to see another one around here for a long time.
Now imagine that Game X Change folds up. GameStop won't be selling classics in their stores--it'll be online only. One of two things will happen if there's a restriction on used games this go round. Either GameStop will fold, or they will start selling older games in their stores, wiping out everyone who deals strictly in games. GameStop has hung around like a bad habit thus far, so I expect it would be the latter.

#43 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 27, 2013 9:00 PM

seems like an overly turblant market, it wasnt 5 years ago gamestops around here were selling NES games for pennies along with used computer games, now everyone is worried about what has already taken place

if you have not figured out I dont worry about the ma-pa shops, it went from a niche to oversaturation with funcoland chains back down to a niche

Edited by Osgeld, Mon May 27, 2013 9:02 PM.


#44 Donnicton OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 28, 2013 7:40 AM

Brilliant.

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#45 Lentzquest OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 6, 2013 10:13 AM

I think most current-gen game players will behave that way... Play through the game, then forget about it. It's (the small number of) us who enjoy the older games who will be outta luck.


I think you're right. That being said I feel sorry for current generation gamers 10, 15, or 20 years from now when their nostalgia kicks in and they want to revisit their old favorites. Like most I sold all my Atari stuff in favor of NES, NES stuff when I lived for SNES, then sold all my SNES stuff in favor of the Jaguar and Playstation, etc. Now it's no problem for me to collect old carts or discs I want to play for cheap. In fact I love it. Current generation gamers will be screwed. At some point almost everyone takes a turn backwards to revisit older music, games, or movies. From here on out, they'll always have to repay the same company just to get the game directly from them, versus finding a deal on the used market.

All games will be like the virtual console is now, except it will be the only way, rather than just a convenient option. Want to play NES Super Mario Bros on the Wii? Then pay Nintendo again for a game that they've already been making millions on for decades. There won't be an alternative anymore to pick up the cart for a buck or two and own forever. People will be buying the exact same games directly from Microsoft on every platform forever. No way in hell they'll transfer from one generation to the next. Microsoft wins.

Edited by Lentzquest, Thu Jun 6, 2013 10:20 AM.


#46 mbd30 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 6, 2013 11:29 AM

Discs hold up as well as cartridges when they are properly taken care of. Most gamers just don't seem to give a crap about proper treatment of discs. A game disc shouldn't look like someone took a needle and deliberately left scratch marks over the entire thing, and that's what many look like.

#47 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 6, 2013 1:41 PM

Discs hold up as well as cartridges when they are properly taken care of. Most gamers just don't seem to give a crap about proper treatment of discs. A game disc shouldn't look like someone took a needle and deliberately left scratch marks over the entire thing, and that's what many look like.

But many used game shops will resurface the disc for free. Sure the machines occasionally make the disc appear cloudy, but it makes them playable again. As long as it plays well and there aren't deep visible scratches on the disc surface, I'm happy. A bigger issue is that I always try to keep the disc in the case. carts I collect loose, but I really need the game cases. So many used games are selling in the generic DVD cases now and I hate that, especially with the undersized Game Cube discs.

However, the bigger issue is not only will used games no longer be an option, but your system is essentially bricked after they pull online support for it. Maybe Microsoft will enable a final update that disables the online check and enable people to continue using old Xbox Ones, but once you apply that update, you are stuck with whatever software you've got preinstalled. Buy a used Xbox One, and I hope you enjoy playing whatever games the previous owner did because that's all you'll ever get.

It would be like me buying a used NES and finding out that the only games I can play on it are Home Alone 2 and Wall Street Kid because that's all the previous owner played on it.

#48 PsychedelicShaman OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 6, 2013 7:32 PM

They just posted a blog post, which makes for a confusing read: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Basically, they've backpedaled as far as they can while still requiring an online connection and giving game publishers the right to limit used games.

I won't be purchasing an Xbox One. PS4 has said multiple times that they will not require an online connection. If they have no used game restrictions, I don't see how the Xbox One will survive this generation. PS4 will have my full support.

If Sony follows suit, PC Gaming and the Oculus Rift + Virtuix Omni will be my choice.

Edited by PsychedelicShaman, Thu Jun 6, 2013 7:40 PM.


#49 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 6, 2013 11:10 PM

If Sony follows suit, PC Gaming and the Oculus Rift + Virtuix Omni will be my choice.

I just googled those. FYI, it's been done before. Basically the modern reinvention of the Virtual boy paired with a treadmill. :P

#50 Algus OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 7, 2013 8:59 AM

Man I told myself I wasn't going to get worked up about this again but I nearly choked on my coffee at the bit about loaning games to your friends.

You can only loan games to people who have been on your friends list for 30 days and you can only loan the game once?

Pardon my language but Fuck You Microsoft





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