Colecovision vs 7800 vs 5200

[Trebor]

I wish my parents would have gotten one of them instead of a 2600.

 

BANNED.

 

This:

"I wish my parents would have gotten one of them along with a 2600.

 

Acceptable.

[Loktar]

hahaha, well hey I still love the 7800 more than anything that has to count for something right

[Trebor]

Thats actually why I got it, I saw a youtube video of how good it looked on the Intelli. I always assumed the Intellivision was inferior to the 2600 graphics/sound wise.. then I found Tower of Doom which is comparable to modern indie RPG's of today. I also picked up Christmas Carol which is an exceptionally well done homebrew package.. I was sold.

 

The impression it gave me was it had superior Sports titles to the 2600 that looked, sounded, and played better. Being that I was never a huge fan of sports titles on consoles (Much rather actually play the sport or watch it in real life instead), so it didn't mean much to me. Additionally, other games, especially the beloved Pitfall! and Donkey Kong, to me looked worse. The controller was also a big BLAH for me back then too. (Not crazy about it now either).

 

Funny how history repeats itself; I recall the Dreamcast coming out touting its sports titles and how superior they were to the PlayStation (Not 2, original). They even made a special sports edition console packed (If I recall correctly) with a Basketball and Football game NBA2K and NFL2K...Something like that.

 

Oh, side note, I picked of a Dreamcast when I saw RE Code Veronica - That blew anything I saw previously out of the water - especially that is was horror and looked so good. Seeing that and Soul Calibur made me think how finally the boxy look of 3D is gone and this is the big step I was waiting for (Never being a big fan of early 3D games). Obviously, always and still a bigger fan of classic consoles anyway

[Trebor]

hahaha, well hey I still love the 7800 more than anything that has to count for something right

 

The "more than anything" part has redeemed you entirely

[almightytodd]

I feel compelled to weigh in on this topic. Back in '82 I was a 22 year old struggling college student with a wife and a baby daughter. Five years earlier my family had shared an original Atari VCS heavy-sixer as a family Christmas present. Also around that time, I had purchased a BASIC language programming book for the TRS-80, and done some experimenting on the display machines on Saturday afternoons at my local Radio Shack. I was very interested in new technologies and had been following the developments of coin-op video games, and home console systems from Atari and Mattel.

 

I was excited when the Atari 800 and 400 computers came out, and seemed to offer the capabilities of everything an Apple II could do, but for a few hundred dollars less. Even still, at an inflation-adjusted price of over $3,000 of today's dollars, there was no way devices like that could have been part of my life. I read about the 5200, which sounded something like the power of an Atari 400, but with no keyboard, and no expansion capabilities to turn it into a real computer. It was strictly the "gaming parts" of a home computer in order to get the price down. I have to laugh at my own description because in my opinion, that's what an Xbox or Playstation is now in relationship to a full-blown gaming PC.

 

Anyway, at that point in my life, my experience with technology from Coleco was limited to some hand-held LED games they'd developed in response to the Mattel Electronics offerings, and the memories of some dedicated console devices from several years earlier that had been developed to compete with Atari's first home Pong machines. I feel I need to explain that Coleco had little prestige as a technology company at that point, because that was part of what made Colecovision such a surprising product when it was launched. It was a home product that just seemed to jump ahead of Atari from out of nowhere.

 

The graphics quality of the 5200 was quite good, but it also had a sort of "familiar" aspect to it, because the fonts and colors "looked" like what we'd seen before on Atari's home computers. When the Colecovision would start up, it would show a rainbow-lettered default screen and then go into the difficulty selection screen with what appeared to be a built-in text font. The overall experience just "felt" more like what I'd seen in the coin-op machines in the arcades than did the offerings from Atari. This seemed puzzling to me, given that Atari was still a major player in the arcades, while Coleco had no presence there.

 

I never owned a Colecovision or a 5200 (...I do have a 7800 as well as our original 1977 VCS), but I've played both via emulation. This, of course, removes the elements of the controllers which is a major win/fail judgement component for both systems. I don't think there's any way to easily make a quantitative statement of which was the "better" system, or which had an overall greater impact on the direction home gaming went during the 1980s. I just wanted to throw it out there that for me, I was blown away by the looks and sounds of the Colecovision, partly because it was just unexpected.

 

After the release of the base unit, Coleco followed up with the driving controller, which seemed really cool, and with the compatibility unit that would let you play your Atari 2600 games on it. Then the Adam computer was announced, with the promises that the Colecovision games would all play on the Adam, and that a Colecovision would eventually be able to "grow" into an Adam computer. It was a lot of exciting, promising ideas that, as we all now know, fell apart with the rushed release of the very unreliable Adam computers. Coleco was riding the success of Cabbage Patch Kids, but with the failure of Adam, along with some other bad business deals, they crashed and burned.

 

So maybe some of my amazement and nostalgia for the Colecovision is undeserved from a purely objective technological standpoint. I just have some fond memories of being surprised one day in a toy store in 1982, by something unexpected from the Connecticut Leather Company...

[sqoon]

Posting Colecovision vs 7800 vs 5200 on a 7800 forum and what kind of answers do you think you will get ?

 

IMHO 5200 and CV are both better than 7800, and complementary systems. If you want to play all the 80's arcade titles, you will need both. CV had gems like Frenzy and DK, while 5200 had exclusives like Space Dungeon and the best port of Pac Man I have ever played. 7800 has its own gems. Food Fight and Midnight Mutants immediately come to mind, but just doesn't measure up to the other two, at least to this educated observer.

[Jinks]

Naw your wrong.. The 7800 Is the best... What kinda answer did you expect in a 7800 forum..

[RickR]

Get Frenzy for Colecovision. It is the best CV game I've played. Also, try different controllers if you can. I hated the first CV I got. The controllers weren't very responsive. I got another CV system cheap, and that second set of controllers were 100% better. You might also try one of the ridiculous "Super Action Controllers". The joystick on those works a lot better that the original stubby version.

 

So I like the CV. I like the 7800 better. But I like the CV and 5200 about the same.

Edited July 15, 2013 by RickR

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Any "VS" thread is asking for trouble and you deserve any responses you get lol!

That said, I have an inexcusable love for the ColecoVision myself based on nostalgia and personal experience with the console. Love the 5200 also even though was introduced late I got an awesome clean original 4 port with the "fix" for the few incompatible titles and it works fine with the 2600 add-on too but I got a Gold Refurbed 5200 controller form BEST ELECTRONICS and while I admit the controllers are different I have always been good at simply adapting to controllers and control schemes instead of botching about them. The 7800 would be my third but then I have not played many 7800 titles.

[Lynxpro]

And the subject might not exactly be appropriate. Anyway, I just got a Coleco vision from eBay yesterday. Just to see an honest comparison to Atari systems. Not only am I disappointed, but I feel that both the Atari 5200 and the Atari 7800 outshine the Colecovision overall by leaps and bounds. We could get into a lot of subjects, but for now I will say this. Controllers - I feel that both Atari systems have better controllers then this Coleco vision. Graphics-I feel Atari graphics on both systems are better, and gameplay is more entertaining.

I would take 7800 Desert Falcon over Colecovision zaxxon any day, not sure what all that hype was about. Bob and company are releasing games on the 7800 that blow colecovision out of the water, I don't know. Just never had a colecovision, and decided to check it out, and remained glad that I'm Atari all the way. Not into Intellivision either. Long live Atari 7800, and 5200 as well. Any games to recommend for CV? I think that I might sell it at a garage sale next weekend, unless you guys tell me otherwise.

 

 

The ColecoVision Roller Controller was nice as was their sports controllers. The steering wheel was also cool.

 

 

I think we can all agree the Intellivision sucked though.

[DoctorTom]

I won't debate the 5200, because IMHO even though there are some top-notch games and the system has very pleasant graphics and sound, the controllers make many games nigh unplayable -- or at least difficult. So let's look at CV v. 7800 (which to be fair, was released later than the CV and would be expected to have superior tech).

 

Control -- The CV controllers, while not ideal, are not much worse than the 7800 controllers. And they offer more functionality. So let's call that a draw.

 

Graphics -- The 7800 graphics are better, especially the lack of flicker. But the RF output is a disaster. However, so is CV's. So we can give the edge to 7800.

 

Sound -- 7800 sound quality is a disgrace. CV gets the edge by far.

 

Games -- As for official games, CV is far superior. I won't get into naming titles, but the native CV library is much bigger, and there is a greater abundance of good games on CV (play through both libraries and you'd be hard pressed to disagree). And both can play the 2600 library (although the CV needs an expansion module to do so).

 

As for homebrews -- I would have to give the edge to 7800. Bob's been cranking out a ton of great titles -- Asteroids Deluxe is particularly phenomenal. CV has plenty of homebrews, as well, but the trend is more toward MSX ports nowadays than original titles or arcade ports. For me, that's less of a draw than the greater abundance of arcade ports and original games that we're seeing from the 7800 'brews. Both systems have or will have a super expansion device (SGM v. XM), and both will (supposedly) feature top notch versions of Donkey Kong, which for me is huge.

 

So I'd have to overall call it an even draw. I prefer the original CV titles over the 7800 titles, although they each have their gems. I prefer the 7800 homebrews, although I'd hate to be without the CV stand-outs. Do yourself a favor and don't go without either one!

Edited July 15, 2013 by DoctorTom

[8th lutz]

The future of the Colecovision from a homebrew standpoint is a question mark.

 

I am saying that because Opcode is planning on a new system called Colecovision 2. Proof of Opcode planning on Colecovision 2 based on specs: http://atariage.com/...50#entry2747623

 

Here is even more proof of Colecovision 2 being planned: http://atariage.com/...00#entry2723426

 

While the Colecovision 2 according Opcode will be playing 99 percent of all Colecovision games and SGM Games, creating a new homebrew system has the potential of creating a problem.

 

The potential problem is what Colecovision system or add-on would would get a small amount homebrew games in the future once the Colecovision 2 is released. Right now there are homebrew games planned for Colecovision and SGM. The fact is Colecovision without the SGM is weaker than the Super Game Module and the upcoming Colecovision 2 game console.

Edited July 15, 2013 by 8th lutz

[AtariBrian]

To me I dont get the whole point of a colecovision 2 anyways other than to say someone made it . If it takes 5 years or longer for 1 great arcade port for the coleco and or sgm then you would be lucky to get one game for the colecovision 2 and that would mean even less time spent on sgm games . We already have a super nintendo and genesis so why bother . Unless its to upgrade or replace failing old coleco consoles , power supplies , and controllers and other parts . The whole colecovision 2 is throwing me off of having interest in the sgm and its future . Plus the lack of arcade ports or original games and having all ports as mentioned .

Edited July 15, 2013 by AtariBrian

[DoctorTom]

I heartily agree re: the CV2. Honestly, I see some serious backlash coming if CV2 releases and SGM for any reason is left abandoned. People are already have concerns that DKA might be delayed -- the reason most people bought the SGM in the first place.

[thursday83]

See Trebor, I wasn't all that out of line with my post! Dr. Tom has some valid points and good things to say! Therefore making my post a valid one. God dammit. I don't necessarily agree with Dr. Tom's points, but at least he agrees with me that there are some legit comparisons to make (homebrews, times, etc....) for a decent conversation to be had. And, with the number of replies, I am now feeling better that this post is okay being in this forum.

 

That said - I don't think the CV has THAT much better sound, but ok.

 

Yes, 7800 graphics are better. Given. Can't compare RF output, that was what they had at the time. Agreed.

 

Control - I prefer 7800. So we disagree there. I'm not still understanding why people hate on the pro-lines so much, I actually love them, and have never felt this "cramping" after almost 30 years of playing them. I love them. I love the way they feel. CV is stiff and the buttons have so far to go before they actually respond. And that disc knob is for the birds. But, I have to give it more time to accurately rate them, need to play more games.

 

Games - CV might have bigger library - but NOW - as he did state - is a great time for the 7800. So NOW, I'm psyched about the 7800. I know opcode has some new ones out there, I need to check out. I need to get some of the newer controllers that Trebor recommended to really make a good decision or even like the games. I felt Zaxxon, which is supposed to be one of the best arcade versions ever for CV, sucked - but mainly due to the controller. Easy on me on that one.....just an example.....

 

Homebrews: Well, PMP (I.E. Bob MotherfuckingDecrenfuckingCenzo) is the man, I love him, he takes care of me, and it will be hard to find anyone who can beat his ass in anything. I buy anything he puts his fingerprints on. And Ken Siders has done incredible work, and waiting on GroovyBee, miss him, but it seemed as if he was about to put out some quality stuff.....I didn't think Worm and another one I have were all that, but......we'll see......but anyway, I need to be fair to opcode and the product he is putting out, and I am game to purchase some of his stuff before I sell the CV at a garage sale.

 

Overall - I appreciate the back and forth of this forum, the posts that you are all so passionate about, and the vigor that goes into the love of a system that never got enough back in it's day. You'll never get me to dislike the 7800 as a result, but I thought I'd have some fun picking up a CV and trying out some "new" gaming.....not psyched about it yet, but just got Popeye in the mail today, need to try that out....and Trebor and KevinMos3 and lots of others are making this a fun thread and giving me new hope to keep the faith in an otherwise foreign system. And I thank you all for that, I'll keep trying new shit - I appreciate and welcome all suggestions and think this is a great reason to keep these retro systems alive and happening. Even if I didn't like the CV after all of this a year later, I will still support the scene and play a game with anyone who is down, anytime.

 

Best,

 

Friday

 

www.touchpants.com

[DoctorTom]

Glad you're enjoying the journey! Your thread was fine -- no one needs to stress about why you posted it.

 

I just never had as much of an issue with the CV controller as others, kind of like you with the 7800 controller. Both could be better, but nothing brutal like the 5200 or Intelly.

 

For examples of good sound on CV, try Pepper II, Venture, Frogger, Centipede, Frenzy. Compare Opcode's Pac Man Collection sound to the non-pokey Pac Man Collection by Bob. Compare CV Q*bert and 7800 b*nQ. You'll hear the CV has much better sound.

[LidLikesIntellivision]

(...)

Control - I prefer 7800. So we disagree there. I'm not still understanding why people hate on the pro-lines so much, I actually love them, and have never felt this "cramping" after almost 30 years of playing them. I love them. I love the way they feel. CV is stiff and the buttons have so far to go before they actually respond. And that disc knob is for the birds. But, I have to give it more time to accurately rate them, need to play more games.

(...)

If you're talking about the American pro-line joystick, I'm curious to see a pic of your hands!

[Trebor]

...See Trebor, I wasn't all that out of line with my post! Dr. Tom has some valid points and good things to say! Therefore making my post a valid one...

...just got Popeye in the mail today, need to try that out...

 

I never stated you were out of line or that your post was not valid. Like I mentioned earlier, I would think asking about ColecoVision games for the ColecoVision system would fare better in the ColecoVision forums and "Vs thread" impressions can get and historically have been ugly. Nonetheless, hope your ColecoVision serves you well.

 

Popeye is a good game on the ColecoVision, better on the 2600, best on the NES.

[thursday83]

I know you didn't. I'm just busting your balls.

[Trebor]

I know you didn't. I'm just busting your balls.

Well played

[7800]

Arcade Popeye is HARD as HELL!

[Jaynz]

Threads like this are always tough, 'cause people will get very emotional about their nostalgia. I had a particular fondness for the Colecovision (though I had an ADAM as a kidlet, which was a mixed blessing) and played the hell out of games like Q*Bert, Venture, and Donkey Kong Junior. But was it better than the 7800 once I take the nostalgia glasses off? It actually comes off as a bit of a draw. The 7800 had far superior graphics capabilities, but the controllers, original library, and SOUND I would have to give to the CV.

 

These days? The homebrew scene is doing amazingly well with the 7800 (thanks largely to PMP who has done and is doing amazing work), while the CV homebrew scene died due to infighting and the promise of oddly turning the CV into the NES with a new expansion pack. (This is something I fear with the 7800's homebrew expansion pack, a 'tool' that guts the homebrew scene as even more of a niche within a niche with a niche). It's /exciting/ to see what's coming for the 7800, while the CV seems to have run its course in the nostalgia track.

[Trebor]

...the CV homebrew scene died due to infighting and the promise of oddly turning the CV into the NES with a new expansion pack. (This is something I fear with the 7800's homebrew expansion pack, a 'tool' that guts the homebrew scene as even more of a niche within a niche with a niche).

 

Really? I don't see that...

 

http://atariage.com/...alls-pre-order/

http://atariage.com/...-is-magic-news/

http://atariage.com/...-taito-legends/

http://atariage.com/...-may-31st-2013/

 

 

Since the SGM announcement, I've read of more plans and releases with and without the need of the SGM.

[DracIsBack]

Sound -- 7800 sound quality is a disgrace. CV gets the edge by far.

 

This one is an interesting one because the intent and the reality were different.

 

When the 7800 was designed, they included TIA sound for backwards compatibility. They kept POKEY out of the base 7800 due to cost and space issues on that crowded motherboard, but designed a way to house sound chips in the cartridge to bolster the sound. The intent was to use POKEY out of the GATE for this purpose, but to release a low cost, high performance successor called GUMBY that could be cheaply included in many cartridges.

 

Unfortunately, Atari was sold, GCC was paid off, Gumby was cancelled and the Tramiels didn't want to shell out for sound chips in cartridges. The lone exceptions were Ballblazer (almost done when Atari was sold) and Commando, which came later. Commando actually uses both the POKEY (for music) and the TIA (for sound effects) together.

 

With the exception of COMMANDO and BALL BLAZER which use the POKEY chip, Colecivision games generally do sound a lot sharper. Some games do make decent use of TIA I think,

Edited July 15, 2013 by DracIsBack

[Jaynz]

That's just it, though. The decision to throw the POKEY as a 'cart add-on' meant that those carts would inherently cost more (remember how cheap Atari was with chips of any sort) and that Atari would decide to NOT use them whenever they thought they could get away with it. (Which is exactly how it went down). It was simply a DUMB cost-cutting move with entirely predictable results.

 

Meanwhile EVERY game for the CV was expected to use the TI chip by default. Compare, again, the 'typical' games of Donkey Kong between the two systems... the CV sounded like the arcade, nice clean and smooth. The 7800 sounded like someone was murdering cats with an old Pong cabinet. It was a bad move for the original intended launch of the 7800, much less for it trying to compete with the NES!