Wii U Off Screen Snafu

[DaytonaUSA]

Having some troubles with off screen play on f-zero SNES on the Wii u's virtual console. Everything looks perfect and clear on my tv, but there is some odd stuff happening in the gamepad screen.

 

The middle if the screen, the same horizontal section where it says how many laps are left, is often blurry or has artifact like lines pop up. Everywhere else on screen is fine, but the length of screen in the middle.

 

Nothing wrong with the screen. It's not like this all the time. When the number of laps pop up its the worst, or when an opponent is driving at the same speed just ahead if you...it's aweful.

 

I had this game when it came out in the virtual console on my last wii u, and I don't remember having any of these blurry/line issues mid screen.

 

Anyone else experience this in the game? I haven't noticed this with streaming TV apps or any other game I can remember.

 

Thoughts? Am I nuts or is this an issue for others?

[DaytonaUSA]

I just booted up a couple other games. No other games are giving me trouble. Is it the speed of the graphics the gamepad can't keep up with?

[Austin]

You may see artifacts if you are playing it nearly outside of its capable distance. Other than that I'm not sure what is causing it.

[DaytonaUSA]

Nah. Only 4 feet away. No other game shows a single display issue.

[cimerians]

Maybe it is too fast but but there doesn't seem to be anything out there about the issue...especially after reading a few reviews and then this:

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-secrets-of-the-wii-u-gamepad

 

I heard the controls have a slight delay when its running on the gamepad vs the screen?

I don't have the game on VC so I can't say.

[DaytonaUSA]

Hmm. Maybe I should try re downloading it. Or maybe just call Nintendo.

[DaytonaUSA]

Nintendo couldn't think of anything. Redownloading didn't help.

 

Can anyone who has the game see of their gamepad is causing the same blurry effect mid screen? Thank you

[Austin]

 

I heard the controls have a slight delay when its running on the gamepad vs the screen?

I don't have the game on VC so I can't say.

You heard correct! It should only be in the millisecond range, but I notice the delay. Most notably when I am playing games that require faster reflexes like in NSMB U.

[Austin]

Edit: duplicate post.

[DaytonaUSA]

Nobody has F-Zero on the Wii U to test?

[Austin]

Dude, I am still at work.. Give it some time and I can test it later tonight, heh.

[Austin]

I tried the game out, but the only thing I saw was some artifacting on the upper portion of the track itself where the game tries to simulate a blurry/foggy distance by lightening the color of the track.

[DaytonaUSA]

Haha sorry Austin. Wasnt referring to you when I asked. Mine is blurry with artifacts where the first fade/horizon bar is if you're coming from the center. So the thickest one.

 

Glad it's not just me. But also confused why this is even happening when it's just fine on the TV.

[Austin]

The gamepad screen's resolution is low, and it may not jive all that well with the pixellated nature of SNES games. To be honest, playing SNES games on it reminds me of streaming YouTube videos at a lower resolutions than they were meant to be seen at.

[Atariboy]

Got another free $5 through Nintendo's deluxe digital promotion tonight and upgraded more of my VC titles to their Wii U versions. I had this thread in the back of my mind, so one of my selections was F-Zero.

 

It's happening for me, as well. And in the same area where the alternating light/dark bands are that you can see in the upper half of the screen, such as at the 1:15 mark in this video.

 

 

It does seem that there's something with this effect that seems to not play well with the Wii U's scaling of this game to the Wii U's gamepad screen.

 

First time I've noticed any issue with off-screen play for SuperNes downloads after playing through Super Mario World, Super Mario Kart, and Pilotwings throughout this year. Seen some strange things though with NES downloads and aren't particularly pleased with how they appear on the gamepad screen.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Atariboy

[Andromeda Stardust]

You heard correct! It should only be in the millisecond range, but I notice the delay. Most notably when I am playing games that require faster reflexes like in NSMB U.

Nobody's really gonna notice 16ms. I've only ever noticed it in one game. It did make it slightly more difficult to beat the Kirby Adventure minigame where you shoot five bosses. Read on...

 

My average on the NES is .13 seconds which is fairly constant. I have the same reaction time now (age 33) that I did 10 years ago when I first got Kirby's Adventure, at least playing on the NES with a CRT, so I think it's safe to say my reaction speed is consistent. Wii-U Gamepad my average is .16 One frame of lag for the video frame buffer on VC emulator (.016) plus one frame of lag for the Gamepad (.016) equates to ~.032 seconds off my reaction time. I need .15 seconds to win the fifth boss in the gunfight minigame so I sometimes have to use save state a couple of times to beat it.

 

I suck at balls hard games like Megaman series, etc where timing is critical. Some "expert" gamers may have reactions speeds down to around .10 as I imagine it varies per person. Very young children have shorter distance of travel from the brain stem to their hands and greater brain plasticity so they may have faster reaction time than adult gamers.

 

Honestly the 16ms delay on Gamepad is quicker than the majority of HDTVs (some HDTVs are downright atrocious, although the 1080p ASUS monitor I use for gaming is rated 8ms which is slightly faster) and the built in emulators have less lag than the majority of PC emulators which use effects such as triple buffering, etc. I have no idea what the lag is on a Retron5 but I have a feeling based on reviews by "professional" gamers that it's worse than Wii-U Gamepad.

 

I have F-Zero on Wii-U VC (got it in the .30c digital promotion) but as I haven't played it much on the real SNES (although I do own it) so I'm not sure it may be a glitch in the emulation. F-Zero uses a crazy amount of mode 7 graphics and unlike Mario Kart and Pilot Wings, it does not utilize hardware assist from a DSP chip.

 

I doubt it's a glitch in the display kernel of the Gamepad. More info on the Gamepad's display driver: The Gamepad uses 480p 60Hz 4.2.0 YUV uncompressed video. Color space is compressed into 2x2 sub blocks of color so detail can be lost in certain games. This is most noticable when veiwing colored fonts on a webpage on the gamepad. The text is much more obfuscated compared to black/white. Certain games are affected when displaying smooth graphics with complementary colors. Most notably, in New Super Mario U there is a small amount of tearing whenever Mario's red hat is displayed against a greenish background in day levels.

 

SNES VC games are displayed as 240p pixels scaled at an integer 2x ratio where each pixels occupies a 2x2 block. Henceforth there are zero display artifacts when displaying SNES graphics on the game pad because the color space which is also divided into 2x2 blocks which perfectly match the SNES pixels. The data is streamed uncompressed at a constant bitrate so it does not matter if the Gamepad is displaying a static image or intricately detailed constantly changing color patterns. You won't get any artifacts when playing VC games. GBA are 160p scaled at an integer ratio of 3x3 so each pixel is a 3x3 grid. I haven't noticed any artifacting on GBA games but I'm not ruling out the possibility on the edges of pixels that intersect the YUV grid squares. They all look razor sharp to me although some games such as Mario Kart Super Circuit have a lot of jaggies. Graphics not aging well due to low resolution has nothing to do with emulation quality however.

 

Hope this helps a bit to demystify the Game Pad. I'm gonna go out on a limb and blame Nintendo's official VC emulator for any issues with the F-Zero game. Have you played it on an HD screen and seen the same artifacts? I watched the YT video and aside from the fact it's 30p instead of 60p, I see nothing wrong. Mode 7 graphics is pure 2D as are all graphics on the SNES, even Super FX. 3D perspective is faced so there's gonna be some pixellation artifacts whenever heavy use of sprite scaling is used. It is especially noticeable in the absence of anti-alias effects. The noisy pixellation in the video as a result of scaling artifacts is normal for SNES titles. They don't appear this way on vintage hardware because the CRT blends the pixels together somewhat due to the blurring effects of composite or RF and scanlines. If you display the SNES through S-video or RBG on an HDTV, you will get the same razor sharp pixels you see in the video.

 

You guys got me excited and now I wanna play some FZero. SNES or Wii-U, doesn't matter...

Edited December 27, 2014 by stardust4ever