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Geneve Mess ABasic MDos

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#51 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:24 PM

Success:  On whtech, to get a good set of the GPL files ( without the Tony menu and color mods ) I had to build it up from the full set in the Mdos211.ark, and then the latest 'GPL' file in the MDOS650.ark/dsk. 

 

Progress... 

 

Now a hardware question:  Which RAM ( DRAM or SRAM ) on board the geneve is used when the genmod 'timode' switch is off?  Cause that memory seems to be bad. 

 

And, a history question: where did the swan go? was there not enough room in the boot rom anymore? 

 

-M@



#52 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:58 PM

You seem to have a 1.0 boot ROM.

 

Well, at least you can call it "modern", just like those recent "flat designs" in user interfaces <shudder>.

 

More than once I consider writing my own boot code for a new EPROM (including a more flexible boot device selection). And if that happens, there will be a swan somewhere on the boot screen (probably smaller, but visible). :) Using MESS this should not be too difficult to develop.



#53 arcadeshopper ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:02 PM

You seem to have a 1.0 boot ROM.

 

Well, at least you can call it "modern", just like those recent "flat designs" in user interfaces <shudder>.

 

More than once I consider writing my own boot code for a new EPROM (including a more flexible boot device selection). And if that happens, there will be a swan somewhere on the boot screen (probably smaller, but visible). :) Using MESS this should not be too difficult to develop.

 

do it!  :) i miss the swan, but prefer having boot options 



#54 Ksarul OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:08 PM

I second that! I like the swan. . .



#55 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:47 AM

EXEC is an mdos program used to load ea5 programs from the os command line.

Initgpl may be part of Tony's 6.71 modification. I recommend you stick with 6.50 or 6.70rc2 while you learn.

Mdos releases typically only include the first file, GPL. The other files are the ROM from the TI and grom. Because different versions of these files exist, including resident menus, only the interpreter is included so that upgrading in place is easy. In hindsight this is not good for a distribution disk as it leaves new users unable to load GPL.

CYA modifies the os to force certain settings as permanent without the need for an autoexec file.

Genmod is a strange beast. It increases the speed of the Geneve but with caveats. I have one Genmod Geneve in my possession but the circuit board is flakey. I never received the switch box or it's pin outs, so my testing has been limited. Check wht for the installation guide as it goes into some detail.

#56 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:36 PM

Insane Mutlitasker,

   As it has been awhile since I have really been on the TI scene and I do have two nonfunctioning Geneve's (I am trying to schedule them into my repair time, have several computers and cars with priority), I need some info. My primary one has the first PFM+ update that you installed at Cecure these many years ago( a resistor you had soldered in pulled loose, pulling the pad with it, so I need to find that real good schematic to make sure it's back functioning correctly). The second one was a un-upgraded one with the original swan (I guess version .98, won't boot, but I haven't checked the supporting chips yet, just got my ttl chip tester functioning while trying to get my Rave 99 card functional), but with 32k sram. What was the last and greatest PFM upgrade and is it worth applying to this Geneve. Thanks for any insight. 



#57 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:23 PM

Concerning the boot process for the Geneve, this would be my approach:

 

- Try to load _LOADSYS_ from DSK1 (search the device by standard DSR lookup). Allow for skipping this step by pressing the space bar.

- If this fails, or if it has been skipped, try to load _LOADSYS_ from "HD", "WDS1", "SCS1" in this order.

- If all this fails, output an error message and offer to start again.

- If LOAD_SYS could be loaded successfully from somewhere, pass control to _LOADSYS_. This is supposed to load _SYSTEM_ which contains the GeneveOS.

 

The advantage would be:

 

- No more low-level code in the boot ROM.

- _LOADSYS_ can be tailored to your needs. It can, for instance, be configured to load _SYSTEM_ from a different device than it is stored on.

- _LOADSYS_ can contain the low-level code that is specific for the various floppy and hard disk cards. We would need to create a version for TIFDC, HFDC, DDCC-1, ASCSI etc.

- In case you messed up your system, you can always override your configuration by DSK1._LOADSYS_

 

On other platforms, we would call _LOADSYS_ a driver for the boot device.

 

Note that I renamed the files, since the slash in the file name was arguably the worst idea of all.

 

This concept is alive since more than a year, but I did not find enough time. Someone to volunteer in the meantime?



#58 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 1, 2015 6:19 AM

Insane Mutlitasker,
   As it has been awhile since I have really been on the TI scene and I do have two nonfunctioning Geneve's (I am trying to schedule them into my repair time, have several computers and cars with priority), I need some info. My primary one has the first PFM+ update that you installed at Cecure these many years ago( a resistor you had soldered in pulled loose, pulling the pad with it, so I need to find that real good schematic to make sure it's back functioning correctly). The second one was a un-upgraded one with the original swan (I guess version .98, won't boot, but I haven't checked the supporting chips yet, just got my ttl chip tester functioning while trying to get my Rave 99 card functional), but with 32k sram. What was the last and greatest PFM upgrade and is it worth applying to this Geneve. Thanks for any insight.

Schematics can be found on the wht FTP site. If you lifted a pad, the critical thing to check for is whether the core sleeve is intact. If so. Soldering to the point should be fine. Share a pic if you are able.

The second Geneve must have the 32k SRAM upgrade in order to boot mdos 2.50 or above. His was covered in an earlier post iirc.

As for Pfm, the last version uses a 512k flash chip. For now few if any new upgrades are possible due to chip availability.

#59 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 1, 2015 6:33 AM

 
Note that I renamed the files, since the slash in the file name was arguably the worst idea of all.
 
This concept is alive since more than a year, but I did not find enough time. Someone to volunteer in the meantime?


There was resistance to renaming the os and loader files in the past. I fully support eliminating the slash from the file names, it has been a constant source of frustration for years.

I did reconcile the boot source code up to 0.98. What you propose with the loader is not far-fetched though I can assure you using the DSR routine to load the full os is much slower than using the pseudo-low level routines found in the EPROM. Using opcode 7 to load a boot loader would be convenient but I feel a bypass is required to stop the endless loop when a file is corrupt.

Many ways to 'skin this cat'

#60 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 1, 2015 8:55 AM

I don't plan to load _SYSTEM_ via DSR. My idea would be to delegate that to _LOADSYS_, and there we can do any kind of magic inside. I think we can afford to load _LOADSYS_ by conventional means, i.e. as a PROGRAM via DSR. The advantage here is that we can always replace the _LOADSYS_ by updated versions, or by updates for newly developed devices, if there are any.

 

As you remember, I found some glitches in the boot code that just appeared because the error handling is incomplete, and the boot code gets to some wrong assumptions. The boot EPROM is just not the proper place for device-specific low-level code.



#61 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 1, 2015 12:58 PM

Schematics can be found on the wht FTP site. If you lifted a pad, the critical thing to check for is whether the core sleeve is intact. If so. Soldering to the point should be fine. Share a pic if you are able.

The second Geneve must have the 32k SRAM upgrade in order to boot mdos 2.50 or above. His was covered in an earlier post iirc.

As for Pfm, the last version uses a 512k flash chip. For now few if any new upgrades are possible due to chip availability.

Yeh I have those, if they are the same ones. I am looking for a set I found and thought I downloaded that showed images of the layers, but I'll take whatever I can get. I try to do my TI and Geneve testing and repair when it's raining or I cannot go out for some reason, as I am trying to get several of the cars

and trucks I own ready for inspection to get rebuild titles instead of salvage.Between that and work I don't have alot of free time, but after the first of the year I will have two of them down and one to go, maybe. On chip availibility, after questioning you awhile back on chips for the HFDC, I found some on Ebay, from here, Hong Kong and Bulgaria, So if I have the needed info to search for these items, I might find them.



#62 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 1, 2015 2:39 PM

Has anyone connected a Geneve 9640 to a VGA display using something like or exactly this:  http://www.amazon.co...ailpage_o01_s00

 

I've got the following documentation link for the 8pin din video port: ftp://ftp.whtech.com/Geneve/schematics/Genever_Monitor_8CM515_pinouts.jpeg

 

Any gotchas?  Hopefully this is tonights project.  



#63 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 1, 2015 2:52 PM

Has anyone connected a Geneve 9640 to a VGA display using something like or exactly this:  http://www.amazon.co...ailpage_o01_s00

 

I've got the following documentation link for the 8pin din video port: ftp://ftp.whtech.com/Geneve/schematics/Genever_Monitor_8CM515_pinouts.jpeg

 

Any gotchas?  Hopefully this is tonights project.  

No I haven't, but keep us posted, as I have considered that exact same unit for my Geneve and my TI with the TIM when I get them both up and running. And in my previous post above your it should say availability. 



#64 Ksarul OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 1, 2015 7:14 PM

There was a pretty long discussion on this adapter a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if anyone actually tried one though. . .



#65 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 2, 2015 1:22 AM

How wonderful. I found that thread... It just ends...

 

Well the board wasn't that expensive...

The menu on it is in chinese. completely. comes with zero docs. I'll have to google around for the menu docs, because there are many things in there that can be fine-tuned, but without a translation, and some divine understanding of RGB, I'm not going to rosetta stone that menu. 

 

I pulled out the yellow wire that comes with it's little video signal wire harness. As somewhere I heard tale that the grey wire was csync. 

 

Given the Geneve has RGBs output, that seemed correct.  I wired up an 8pin din per the link I reference above.  I didn't touch the jumper on the Geneve, hoping it was already in 'RED' mode instead of ground mode.  I haven't found documentation on which position is which. 

 

I have read that it is finicky with the power source... I've tried a couple 5v sources, but they won't sustain the board, it doesn't actually power up. So then I found a 12v source. And that turned it on... Everyone says 5v works best for this thing, so I'll have to find a proper 2amp 5v supply and try that. 

 

Here is what I did, and what it looks like:

 

https://goo.gl/photo...KdoJzjpCSNLsmS7

 

Attached File  GBS8200Geneve.jpg   70.65KB   2 downloads

 

The sync signal seems to be too weak for the GBS8200 to follow.   :(  

 

Does anyone know what the Geneve docs mean by saying that the csync is TTL? Does that mean it is only 5v, where normal RGB might be something more? There was some other annotation somewhere that indicated the RGB lines are up to 8v.   ??? 



#66 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 2, 2015 1:35 AM

Oh, I found the menu for the thing that sets it to English. So, that exists...  :) 



#67 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 2, 2015 7:24 AM

Schematics can be found on the wht FTP site. If you lifted a pad, the critical thing to check for is whether the core sleeve is intact. If so. Soldering to the point should be fine. Share a pic if you are able.

The second Geneve must have the 32k SRAM upgrade in order to boot mdos 2.50 or above. His was covered in an earlier post iirc.

As for Pfm, the last version uses a 512k flash chip. For now few if any new upgrades are possible due to chip availability.

Here the pic Tim, As you can see the pad pulled from deep, so I will need to locate where that pad and core connected and run wire to complete the circuit.   

Attached Files



#68 arcadeshopper ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:54 PM

Has anyone connected a Geneve 9640 to a VGA display using something like or exactly this:  http://www.amazon.co...ailpage_o01_s00

 

I've got the following documentation link for the 8pin din video port: ftp://ftp.whtech.com/Geneve/schematics/Genever_Monitor_8CM515_pinouts.jpeg

 

Any gotchas?  Hopefully this is tonights project.  

 

no I use a scart cable to go rgb to a lcd tho :)  



#69 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:00 PM

Here the pic Tim, As you can see the pad pulled from deep, so I will need to locate where that pad and core connected and run wire to complete the circuit.   

 

Based on your picture, you probably have the PFM+ device.  This was a double-stacked Atmel 29C010.  With a LS139 stacked atop the sound chip. 

 

I found my Cecure notebook and checked out the sketch I made when I used to install this mod.  The white wire soldered to the bottom end of the resistor is the WE line.  The resistor is a pull-up to +5v.   The pad and core you removed from JM3-2 should be +5v.  Try a continuity test from the top side of the throughhole/pad to the output leg of the three bottom voltage regulators.  One of the three should provide continuity. 

 

In a stock Geneve, JM3 should have the middle hole and the one you damaged tied together.  Jumpering the other side provides access to address line A15. 

 

It isn't clear to me if we cut the trace for this particular PFM mod. My note have a confusing scribbled-out diagram of this jumper, from the top and bottom sides, with conflicting information.  What I can tell you is that you should be able to tie the resistor to +5 in that damaged core OR pick it up from one of the nearby chips.  It doesn't matter which +5 line you connect to.

 

I suggest you try using a fine wire, thread it into the hole, and then apply solder so that it wicks inside and connects to the internal trace.  If that doesn't work, again, pick up from somewhere else.  I might have a Geneve with this mod in my storage bin and if time permits, I will give it a visual.  My DMM died, so I can't test continuity until I get it replaced.

 

Good luck.

 

PS - If I recall correctly, the Geneve schematic is incorrect where JM1, JM2, JM3, an JM4 are concerned. 



#70 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:46 AM

 

Based on your picture, you probably have the PFM+ device.  This was a double-stacked Atmel 29C010.  With a LS139 stacked atop the sound chip. 

 

I found my Cecure notebook and checked out the sketch I made when I used to install this mod.  The white wire soldered to the bottom end of the resistor is the WE line.  The resistor is a pull-up to +5v.   The pad and core you removed from JM3-2 should be +5v.  Try a continuity test from the top side of the throughhole/pad to the output leg of the three bottom voltage regulators.  One of the three should provide continuity. 

 

In a stock Geneve, JM3 should have the middle hole and the one you damaged tied together.  Jumpering the other side provides access to address line A15. 

 

It isn't clear to me if we cut the trace for this particular PFM mod. My note have a confusing scribbled-out diagram of this jumper, from the top and bottom sides, with conflicting information.  What I can tell you is that you should be able to tie the resistor to +5 in that damaged core OR pick it up from one of the nearby chips.  It doesn't matter which +5 line you connect to.

 

I suggest you try using a fine wire, thread it into the hole, and then apply solder so that it wicks inside and connects to the internal trace.  If that doesn't work, again, pick up from somewhere else.  I might have a Geneve with this mod in my storage bin and if time permits, I will give it a visual.  My DMM died, so I can't test continuity until I get it replaced.

 

Good luck.

 

PS - If I recall correctly, the Geneve schematic is incorrect where JM1, JM2, JM3, an JM4 are concerned. 

Thanks Tim, I will save this and over the next couple of days I will try it. I just got one of my HFDC's back up to full capacity(could only read low density formats, not high density, Bad SMC hdc9223 chip) and want this back up. I am trying to restore a couple of salvage cars, fix a PC motherboard, get an old pc that is capable of single density back up and running to use TI99PC and several other projects, so I stay busy.



#71 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 6, 2016 1:50 PM

Tim, that worked on getting this Geneve to show a screen, but I am getting a Bad CPU RAm error message and I have double and triple checked the 12 mhz crystal connections( was getting the same errors with a bad crystal, but cleared up after installing a new one). Any ideas, all the logic chips and dram check out good that I can test in my chip tester. and all other solder connections look good. Could I have missed something in that resistor reroute? 



#72 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 6, 2016 4:11 PM

Tim, that worked on getting this Geneve to show a screen, but I am getting a Bad CPU RAm error message and I have double and triple checked the 12 mhz crystal connections( was getting the same errors with a bad crystal, but cleared up after installing a new one). Any ideas, all the logic chips and dram check out good that I can test in my chip tester. and all other solder connections look good. Could I have missed something in that resistor reroute? 

 

My guess is either a bad DRAM socket, especially if these are single-wipe sockets or you inserted a DRAM improperly.  You can test continuity between chips to help locate the problem.  I doubt the resistor reroute has anything to do with the memory test.  Also, check the two front regulators near the LED for 5v.



#73 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 6, 2016 4:13 PM

 

My guess is either a bad DRAM socket, especially if these are single-wipe sockets or you inserted a DRAM improperly.  You can test continuity between chips to help locate the problem.  I doubt the resistor reroute has anything to do with the memory test.  Also, check the two front regulators near the LED for 5v.

Okay will do, thanks







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