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Christmas Music and/or Programs for our little TI 'Puter


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#51 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:30 AM

You're welcome. Thanks for adding! The only thing is the title "8 bit" which does not apply to our little TI/Geneve, but well ... :)



#52 blakespot OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:47 AM

You're welcome. Thanks for adding! The only thing is the title "8 bit" which does not apply to our little TI/Geneve, but well ... :)

 

Hah, well, there are a few other violations of that in the posts over the years. Perhaps more "8-bit" in spirit... :-)

 

 

 

bp



#53 blakespot OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:50 AM

You're welcome. Thanks for adding! The only thing is the title "8 bit" which does not apply to our little TI/Geneve, but well ... :)

 

...but that does make me ask. Does the 9995 in the Geneve have access to more Than 256 bytes of 16-bit RAM? Surely it must. How is the memory structured in the Geneve? 

 

 

bp



#54 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:29 PM

The Geneve comes with 512 KiB of DRAM, 32 KiB of SRAM, and 256 bytes of on-chip RAM (within the TMS9995). Most Geneves got an SRAM expansion by 32K to run later MDOS releases.

 

See

 

https://www.ninerped...iki/Geneve_9640

https://www.ninerped...ry_organization

 

I'm sorry for my 8-bit aversion, but this reaches back for decades, when the C64/Spectrum etc guys tried to make themselves feel better, by persistently claiming that the TI is "not a real 16-bit" computer, has "only one half of the data bus attached" or "only 8 data lines, thus an 8-bitter" and other nonsense. I think at least the TI community should fight those alternative facts.

 

I know that there is more than the ALU width. The width was never a good indication of computer capabilities. It was about devices, graphics, and much more. People associate specific capabilities with the 8-bit computers, the 16-bit computers, the 16/32-bitters etc. Admittedly, the TI clearly lived in what we may call the 8-bit era, even though it was a 16-bitter.



#55 blakespot OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:26 PM

 

I'm sorry for my 8-bit aversion, but this reaches back for decades, when the C64/Spectrum etc guys tried to make themselves feel better, by persistently claiming that the TI is "not a real 16-bit" computer, has "only one half of the data bus attached" or "only 8 data lines, thus an 8-bitter" and other nonsense. I think at least the TI community should fight those alternative facts.

 

I know that there is more than the ALU width. The width was never a good indication of computer capabilities. It was about devices, graphics, and much more. People associate specific capabilities with the 8-bit computers, the 16-bit computers, the 16/32-bitters etc. Admittedly, the TI clearly lived in what we may call the 8-bit era, even though it was a 16-bitter.

 

 

Hah. I've thought about such things. There is the Atari Falcon with an '030 on a 16-bit RAM bus and the Mac LC/LC II with an 020 (and 030 respectively) on 16-bit busses. 

 

I wrote this letter 12 years ago to the editor to RetroGamer magazine (which got published in issue 11, actually) in response to a piece they'd written. Take it as you will. 

 

- - - - -

"I wanted to report a bit of an error in the Apple IIgs article that

ran in issue 9.

 

The author refers to the IIgs as a "16-bit" machine, akin to the Amiga
and Atari ST.  That comparison is inaccurate.  The Motorola 68000 in
the Amiga and Atari ST is a "16/32" bit processor in that it has an
internal 32-bit architecture (32-bit registers, etc.) but sits on a
16-bit data bus.  It does not communicate externally at 32-bits.  The
WDC 65C816 in the Apple IIgs is a "8/16" bit processor in that it has
an internal 16-bit architecture, but communicates with the rest of the
world in 8-bits.  (Likewise the Sinclair QL uses a Motorola 68008 CPU which is
basically a 68000 that, while sporting a 32-bit internal architecture,
communicates with the rest of the system by way of an 8-bit data bus.)
 

So if the Amiga/Atari ST is considered 16-bit, thenthe IIgs would
have to be called 8-bit.  If you call the Amiga/Atari ST 32-bit
machines - which would not be an entirely wrong description, then the
IIgs becomes a 16-bit machine.  This is quite an important distinction
that was not made clear in the article."

- - - - -

 

It's interesting that both the Sega Genesis/MegaDrive and the Super Nintendo were "16-bit" game machines of the same generation, but the former used a MC68000 and the latter used a 65C816. They can't both be "16-bit" machines. 

 

 

 

bp



#56 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:08 AM

I just read through Wikipedia about the 68000. The 68000 has a 16-bit ALU and 16-bit instruction width, can handle 32-bit arithmetics and addresses, has 32-bit registers, and uses a multiplexed 16-bit data bus. 32-bit arithmetics take twice as long as a 16 bit operation. From today's definitions of architecture width, this could indeed be called 16/32 bit, not because of the data bus but because of the instructions and ALU.

 

The TMS9900 uses 16-bit instructions, 16-bit arithmetic operations, 16-bit registers, and addresses memory as 16-bit words, using a 16-bit address space (with 15 address bits).

 

The Intel 8088 is a 16-bit processor with a multiplexed 8-bit data bus, just like our TI.

 

Interestingly, the TI-99/8 used address bus multiplexing, i.e. it took two cycles to transmit the 24-bit address in the physical space. However, due to the 16-bit addressing of the 9995, the processor could only see 64K at a time, just like in the Geneve.



#57 sparkdrummer OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:22 AM

Merry Christmas to all TI'ers worldwide.

 

Attached File  CHRISTMAS.DSK   90KB   8 downloads

 



#58 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

--- Ω ---

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Posted Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:22 AM

Neat... until "SUBPROGRAM NOT FOUND IN 310"  :_(

Thanks for uploading this Sparky!  Christmas would NOT be the same without the TI playing Christmas tunes.



#59 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:53 PM

It's interesting that both the Sega Genesis/MegaDrive and the Super Nintendo were "16-bit" game machines of the same generation, but the former used a MC68000 and the latter used a 65C816. They can't both be "16-bit" machines. 

 

Attempts to define the power of a machine in a single consumer-friendly term were always pretty muddied by reality.

 

The Sega Genesis actually had two processors, a 68000 with 16/32 architechture, and a Z80 with 8-bit architecture. It was marketed as a 16-bit machine. The NeoGeo had the same CPU set, and was marketed as 24-bit. (Nobody ever seemed to push the 68000 as 32-bit, we had to wait for the 68020 for that). Then at the extreme end of silly we had the Atari Jaguar, which had two 32-bit RISC and a 68000, and marketed itself as 64-bit. (Further confusing things, the Jaguar did have a 64-bit RAM bus and both the blitter and graphics engine could manage 64-bits at a time). Later, Playstation sold itself as 32-bit (and probably was in all aspects except its 16-bit display engine).

 

What the Jaguar taught us was that the public defined (game system) bits as how good the games looked. They accepted the Genesis and the NeoGeo and the Playstation, but rejected the Jaguar marketing as baloney. After that generation we somewhat thankfully faded out advertising systems by bits. ;)

 

I wasn't going anywhere with this. Merry Christmas folks. ;)






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