wiseguyusa Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I would like to "commission" a couple of homebrew carts that I envisioned as a kid. I lack the programming skills as well as the hardware to make them on my own, so I would like to find someone who has made homebrews before and tell them my ideas, make them in to reality and then purchase the finished products "wholesale" and sell/gift them myself. How much does it cost to make one? Who's with me? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Look up Batari Basic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Just a bit of friendly advice: Take a look at this thread, read through it, and then it will be clear why your post may not be taken seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseguyusa Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Did I mention that I would pay for the services of said programmer? I bet that doesn't happen often! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Why don't you start by explaining your game concept(s) Did I mention that I would pay for the services of said programmer? I bet that doesn't happen often! You're kidding, right? Developing software is a profession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubxcube Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Based on what I've seen and read on these forums.. The prices for the homebrews in this store don't even come close to the value of the time and energy put into making one. I've seen complaints occasionally about the $50ish price tag for a boxed homebrew. I would imagine that maybe is a break even point for materials alone. Everything else is "love". I do imagine that a well thought out game concept would not fall on deaf ears though. Might be better to put your game idea in this thread and see if one of the talented programmers here want to take up the challenge. You already have at least one of them commenting in this thread. (theLoon) Good luck! Edited January 2, 2014 by dubxcube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Did I mention that I would pay for the services of said programmer? I bet that doesn't happen often! It might help to name your price. It's a ton of work, remember people made good money (after some struggles) to make these games back in the day. Most homebrewers would rather spend the time to make their ideas a reality. Homebrews don't get commissioned often (ever?) for this reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 We had these kinds of request and discussion before. IIRC you would have to invest $1000 or more for a paid programmer. If you find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I would like to "commission" a couple of homebrew carts that I envisioned as a kid. I lack the programming skills as well as the hardware to make them on my own, so I would like to find someone who has made homebrews before and tell them my ideas, make them in to reality and then purchase the finished products "wholesale" and sell/gift them myself. How much does it cost to make one? Who's with me? LOL This also changes the price. If you want the developer to relinquish all rights then the price goes way up. I like to at least be able to give away copies of my games at expos. I've also worked with people willing to allow a limited amount of "developer" editions. Basically, the more freedom I'm given the easier collaboration (and payment) becomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseguyusa Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Why don't you start by explaining your game concept(s) You're kidding, right? Developing software is a profession. yes, and there is such a demand for programmers of Atari 2600 games, how can I compete with all of those software giants chomping at the bit to sign a new Atari 2600 programmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseguyusa Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well one of the ideas was a "hack" of "Night Driver" to make it "Datsun 280 ZZZAP" with a speedometer at the bottom, use the driving controller in one controller port and a regular joystick in the other to "shift gears" like the original. Since it is a hack of an existing game, I didn't think that I could " relinquish all rights" that I never had to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 yes, and there is such a demand for programmers of Atari 2600 games, how can I compete with all of those software giants chomping at the bit to sign a new Atari 2600 programmer. It's not decent to degrade the very people you're requesting a service from. Not smart. Not cool. Not professional. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseguyusa Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 It is essentially a job posting, if someone wants to collaborate on the project, shoot me a number, it is called bidding on a project business PROFESSIONALS do it all the time. If you aren't interested in it, don't make a bid. Obviously I value the skillset or I wouldn't have sought someone in here to help. If you didn't want a job in the real world, would you contact the companies HR department to tell them that the job sucks? Or would you simply not apply for the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 It is essentially a job posting, if someone wants to collaborate on the project, shoot me a number, it is called bidding on a project business PROFESSIONALS do it all the time. If you aren't interested in it, don't make a bid. Obviously I value the skillset or I wouldn't have sought someone in here to help. If you didn't want a job in the real world, would you contact the companies HR department to tell them that the job sucks? Or would you simply not apply for the job? I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Everyone here has a job/something else going on in their lives, nobody makes a living off of making Atari games anymore. This is a hobby, people do it in their spare time because they want to. You aren't going to get people banging on your door asking to do your 2600 games. If you get one serious interested party, you'd be lucky. There is no bidding on the programmer's end. The best you could do is make a detailed post about what the games would be like (complete with mockups, the more information the better), and post what monetary compensation you're willing to contribute and hope for the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseguyusa Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 I think we got off on the wrong foot, and for that I apologize. I was hoping that my ideas + a small investment might make it a reality, I don't know why the first replies were flames, totally unnecessary. Either someone would like to collaborate or not, but if you aren't interested, why discourage others that might be? Is the homebrew market that competitive? I figured we were all hobbyists sharing our love of the Atari platform together. Since most homebrew programmers lose money on the project, I thought that "commissioning" a project would help defray the overhead that might otherwise discourage programmers from undertaking such a project. I just don't understand the rub here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseguyusa Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Since I have never done this before (and apparently no-one has "commissioned" a homebrew before) I don't know what "offer" to throw out there, which was why I came in here to ask, only to be flamed. There are plenty of underemployed programmers in the world with plenty of free time, that isn't to say that there are many that can do this specific project, but coming in to a hobby forum, and asking if anyone would be interested doesn't seem like "fightin' werds" to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseguyusa Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Loon I get it, you are the expert, I came here to seek your counsel, not piss you off. I would welcome an opportunity to work with you on this, but if not, why must you flame me for having an idea and wanting to find someone to help me with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I think we got off on the wrong foot, and for that I apologize. I was hoping that my ideas + a small investment might make it a reality, I don't know why the first replies were flames, totally unnecessary. Either someone would like to collaborate or not, but if you aren't interested, why discourage others that might be? Is the homebrew market that competitive? I figured we were all hobbyists sharing our love of the Atari platform together. Since most homebrew programmers lose money on the project, I thought that "commissioning" a project would help defray the overhead that might otherwise discourage programmers from undertaking such a project. I just don't understand the rub here. As the person that submitted the second post, I'd like to assure you it most definitely was not a "flame." I was trying to be helpful because I already knew where this thread was heading, and it turns up I was right: your request was not taken seriously. Had you took the time to read through the thread I suggested you would have found out what for-hire programmers were actually looking in these kinds of jobs, and more specifically, what you should *not* do to entice them. As you just discovered, the first thing that you should not do is to invite programmers with "I have an idea for a game and I want someone to do it for me." With all due respect, that is not a job offer. Programming is a job. It is hard work and pays quite a bit of money in the real world. Programming games is even harder. Programming games for retro consoles is mostly a labour of love because there isn't enough money involved to cover the time and effort to do so. (Just to give you an idea, a contractor job as a programmer outside the game industry is anywhere from $50K to $80K for a 6 month gig.) So, in the homebrew community, you are more likely to find programmers making games for themselves, and owning and controlling the output, rather than doing it for hire. Moreover, producing cartridges and boxes and any other physical media adds a very significant cost. It's great that you have ideas to make games, but ideas are a dime a dozen. I strongly suggest you check out that thread I mentioned. Among the rants, it offers some valuable feedback from programmers on how to approach the business, and what is required and expected from producers. You want to avoid just being an "idea peddler." -dZ. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseguyusa Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 understood, thank you for the info. I am on the go, but will look them over when I am at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 understood, thank you for the info. I am on the go, but will look them over when I am at home. I'm sincerely trying to help you. We went through this before, and that thread was like the final compilation of pent up rants and positive feedback. Homebrew programmers have a disdain for so-called "idea peddlers," because coming up with an idea is the easy part. I understand that you are willing to pay money for the development, and perhaps you should have posted that information as well. You're asking for guidance, so let me introduce some numbers to the discussion so that you may have an idea of what's involved. I know of at least one home-brew game producing company that pays programmers $4K to $6K for completed games, and then takes the cost for producing the physical media (which turns out to be in a thousands as well), and the inventory risk. One quality game can cost about $10K to produce, tying up your cash-flow until units are sold. And that's taking into consideration already established relationships with printers and circuit board manufacturers, and even includes volume discounts for producing multiple titles at the same time. Home-brewing games is not for the faint of heart. It is an expensive proposition. Good luck, -dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well one of the ideas was a "hack" of "Night Driver" to make it "Datsun 280 ZZZAP" with a speedometer at the bottom, use the driving controller in one controller port and a regular joystick in the other to "shift gears" like the original. Since it is a hack of an existing game, I didn't think that I could " relinquish all rights" that I never had to begin with. A hack is not easy for the 2600. You must have the skills not only to adjust the ROM in order to fit new code but make sure the changes remain under cycle. Anyone with enough skill to do that may not want their name attached to an illegal modification of Atari property - especially if the plan is to sell it. My suggestion would be to partner with someone to make a new game. UPDATE: What's the other idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Here's a ballpark for you. I'm a '2600 programmer, and know my stuff. If someone were to offer me, say, $20K to develop a game for them, i *might* consider it. Less than that, no thanks. I realise that's not a realistic call for anyone wanting a game programmed. I'm just pointing out that if you were paying me for my time, then you couldn't afford it. Programming '2600 games has to be a labour of love, because financially it doesn't add up. Cheers A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseguyusa Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Loon I hope that you will unblock me and we can discuss further in private, I really would appreciate the input, I never meant to imply otherwise. There is a "home-brew game producing company" ??? "yer sh!tt!n me?!?!" There must be a bigger market than I imagined. Who wrote the hacks & homebrews that were included on the Flashback II? any idea what there compensation was (if any) ?? one might think having your work actually become an Atari product would be some cool bragging rights... but I'm not going to make any more assumptions on this subject LOL. How big of a "run" are made of homebrews? (typically) how many units, what keeps pirates from making a $5 knock off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseguyusa Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I was lead to believe that hacking existing games was easier than building one from scratch, many of my ideas came from that belief. When I was learning BASIC for the TI 99/4A in summer school I wrote a game "The Who's Ticket Stampede" since "Custers Revenge" had set the bar pretty low for tastelessness and there were jokes being told in the wake of the Cincinnati tragedy that gave me the idea. I never finished writing the TI version, so needless to say it was never ported to 2600, even though that was my intent as a starry eyed pubescent. I had not seen the original "Mario Brothers" when I wrote WTS but when I did see it, the premise was about the same. Rather than jump over turtles the player would dodge other concert goers (like a football game) to buy tickets from the window before they sold out (timer expired) The synth riff from "Eminence Front" played in a loop inspired by "Don't Stop Believin'" used in "Journey Escape" for the 2600 I want to point out that the real 1979 tragedy in Ohio occurred not when fans were rushing to buy tickets, but with general admission tickets in hand trying to get inside of the arena on a bitter cold night. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who_concert_disaster My idea was a hack of Mario for 2600 to become WTS since it was so similar in concept to my game (or vice-versa) Edited January 3, 2014 by wiseguyusa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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