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Modern Colecovision Gamepad Design


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#51 BladeJunker OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:51 PM

BladeJunker, I really like that last design, I see the numbered keys in the middle, would a person be able to put an overlay from a game (like Wargames) in there? Oddly enough, I like that idea a lot. For the rest of the items there, I think they are placed very well.

Thanks man. Yeah there's tab holes on the sides where overlays get held in like Jaguar overlays maybe, depending on the scale of keypad used maybe the old overlays might fit through a top slot without tabs, otherwise new ones have to be printed for it. Seen people print their own out of lots of materials even plain paper. I did my best to make sure everything works together, ergonomics has always been a frequent hobby of mine. :)



#52 BladeJunker OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:29 PM

Well it looks more and more like a battery is needed for a standard spinner/paddle, could use the same pass-through connector like the Roller Controller but you'd have a second cord dangling out of the gamepad. I also read the whole coding side of reading a paddle is different than what the 2600 does to read inputs.

http://atariage.com/...e-used-on-a-cv/

 

I guess a battery wouldn't be bad, you could always take it out for long stretches of not using it. Even the Roller Controller didn't have that many games using itself but those that did used it well, still less frequent use. Its also a trackball which is a tough device to incorporate in conjunction with other control options since they are usually a large component, on arcade cabs they are given a wide birth much like the Roller Controller design. I do like that a console even offered trackball since it was often something exclusive to arcades.

http://en.wikipedia....ll_arcade_games

http://www.colecovision.dk/roller.htm

 

Its kind of odd the Coleco didn't get paddles except for the spinner on the SAC but the INTV didn't get them either. I guess paddles have had an irregular popularity over the years since there was a lot of paddles in the 70s on consoles, Atari and Commodore had them, but on the Nes it kind of petered off after the Arkanoid exclusive controller. For me its one of the fun aspects of 70-80s gaming but its definitely secondary to a primary means of control so its always going to be off to the side if not exclusive to the controller.

http://www.gamasutra...ng_.php?print=1

 

The Keypad aspect seems to have more origins in the 70s than the 80s since so many early consoles have keypads if not switches, I guess the 2600 could have ended up with a keypad which would have been a different experience historically. I guess its like a compact version of a keyboard so its cheaper than a big keyboard like the Odyssey 2 had but still it seems like it would add more cost to manufacturing the controllers and or console. Actually looking at PS4 gamepads recently I noticed all the added features which were neat but boy does make the controller expensive, same with the WiiU controller and its screen. Its a mystery why the keypad was thought to be such a killer feature making its way onto INTV, Coleco, 5200, 7800, etc. when arcade games didn't have them? Oh well, c'est la vie.

http://gratzindustri...and-profit.html

 

Sort of understand the keypad circuit in the sense I can see how only one key at a time can be pressed but still the path between the keypad, joystick, and 9-pin port eludes me. Tried tapping on my buddies shoulder for help but he's been busy with work and church stuff so I'm left with my own stupid brain lol.

http://www.colecovis...k/technical.htm

 

Ramblin' aside I think I will build a prototype of this gamepad design but I have to raise some funds for it first by selling some extra consoles, slow tedious work cleaning them so I haven't got any out the door yet. Looked around my town for electronics component suppliers but all of them reside in the middle of Vancouver which I hardly ever go to so I'll likely order some online for delivery. So this is my last post on this subject till any real milestone is reached. :)

 



#53 hardhat OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:14 AM

Well an inexpensive way to start might be to use grips03's PCB to start with. I'm not sure if he has space in the next batch but maybe check out his thread:

http://atariage.com/...for-diy-builds/

Edited by hardhat, Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:15 AM.


#54 ten-four OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014 10:42 AM

fake-cv-joypad.jpg

 

It could end up like this... :-o

 

Just fun... :lolblue:  :lolblue:



#55 BladeJunker OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014 4:52 PM

Well an inexpensive way to start might be to use grips03's PCB to start with. I'm not sure if he has space in the next batch but maybe check out his thread:

http://atariage.com/...for-diy-builds/

Thanks, nice to know what parts to look for. Not sure about using any pre existing PCB to start with but I'll check it out, been mulling over possible INTV support for the pad, same layout but different button assignments. Came across Bacman's post where he had done pretty much all the hard work already, only thing his design is missing is 3-4 fire buttons since I read only one of the 4 side buttons share a line not unlike the Super Action Controller. Couldn't really support the 5200 because of the analog joystick requirement, it would dominate non-analog D-pad support and analog to D-pad approximation just isn't very good.

http://moddedbybacte...l-intelivision/



#56 BladeJunker OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014 4:55 PM

attachicon.giffake-cv-joypad.jpg

 

It could end up like this... :-o

 

Just fun... :lolblue:  :lolblue:

Lol, looks like a spaceship. Reminds me of Ben Heck's Snes portable, very protruding in all directions.

http://benheck.com/b...s-portable-2001



#57 chart45 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014 7:10 PM

this is what i did 3 years ago

0497427D-FCCD-4063-9C77-4D3B79574760.jpg

always work great since i build it

#58 grips03 ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014 8:04 PM

this is what i did 3 years ago

0497427D-FCCD-4063-9C77-4D3B79574760.jpg

always work great since i build it

 

that looks great, another modder Doubledown also used that one with a spacer between the top and bottom, in order to fit a cut down standard controller pcb.



#59 SiLic0ne t0aD OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 1, 2014 10:37 PM

Very nice! I started looking for that controller to do the conversion but I haven't seen any around.. Pretty tough to find, didn't even see one on eBay. Wish I had a connection in Japan on that...

#60 chart45 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 2, 2014 6:57 AM

keep looking on ebay those controller show sometime more often then the snes ntt data i have 5 nes network and 4 snes ntt data but nobody wants to desing replacement pcb so the way to go is put the diode part in external box
or like dobledown make a spacer for the controller

#61 ten-four OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 2, 2014 12:05 PM

If I remember correctly, I installed the ColecoVision cable directly into my Pro 5000 Joystick as I had for my Commodore 128.

 

I do not believe that I used any diodes at all. :)



#62 SiLic0ne t0aD OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 3, 2014 4:15 AM

I see, yes that makes sense. I have a few controller pcbs I could sacrifice so it definitely doable with the diode section. Not sure about the spacer just yet but I'll figure it out. I think doubledown used a Famicom NTT Modem controller. I'll keep searching on eBay in the meantime.. Thanks

keep looking on ebay those controller show sometime more often then the snes ntt data i have 5 nes network and 4 snes ntt data but nobody wants to desing replacement pcb so the way to go is put the diode part in external box
or like dobledown make a spacer for the controller



#63 grips03 ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014 2:50 PM

keep looking on ebay those controller show sometime more often then the snes ntt data i have 5 nes network and 4 snes ntt data but nobody wants to desing replacement pcb so the way to go is put the diode part in external box
or like dobledown make a spacer for the controller

 

if there was a pcb for Super Famicom NTT Data controller how many would people buy?

 

would a mini pcb that had to be wired to the existing pcb be ok? This would help reduce price.

 

other option is for full pcb replacement, but price would be much higher.


Edited by grips03, Tue Feb 4, 2014 2:51 PM.


#64 chart45 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014 3:11 PM

 
if there was a pcb for Super Famicom NTT Data controller how many would people buy?
 
would a mini pcb that had to be wired to the existing pcb be ok? This would help reduce price.
 
other option is for full pcb replacement, but price would be much higher.


im waiting your pcb to see if something can be done

do you know if its expensive when you desing a pcb and the compagny mount the component on it cause we could use 1n4148 smd diode they are so small that you cant solder by your self but your pcb will be very small

#65 grips03 ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014 3:39 PM

im waiting your pcb to see if something can be done

do you know if its expensive when you desing a pcb and the compagny mount the component on it cause we could use 1n4148 smd diode they are so small that you cant solder by your self but your pcb will be very small

 

The CV arcade controller pcb I sell takes (34) 1N4148 diodes. These are all through hole parts. It might fit in gamepad, but it might not.  It certainly fits in most arcade stick type controllers as that is what its designed for. This pcb is 1.79x2.90 inches (45.39x73.66 mm)

 

If a smaller pcb was made I would use SOT-23-3 or SMA or 1206 diodes. Any small siginal diode should work. I've used 200ma, but 150ma might be ok too.

 

When I do small projects I hand solder everything as having someone else do it just costs too much. If your making carts or something else high volume, perhaps you can hire a company to assemble for you.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology  <--gives many SMT case sizes


Edited by grips03, Tue Feb 4, 2014 3:39 PM.


#66 chart45 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014 4:53 PM

look those diode they are so small

CFF30BC0-2A16-4883-9BE8-463357E6B9AE.jpg

#67 grips03 ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014 5:08 PM

look those diode they are so small

CFF30BC0-2A16-4883-9BE8-463357E6B9AE.jpg

 

SOD 533 or 323  - please avoid these :) - they might be ticks

 

The arcade PCB uses DO-35 size, like digikey  p/n 1N4148FS-ND


Edited by grips03, Tue Feb 4, 2014 5:22 PM.


#68 NIAD OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014 6:37 PM

 

if there was a pcb for Super Famicom NTT Data controller how many would people buy?

would a mini pcb that had to be wired to the existing pcb be ok? This would help reduce price.

other option is for full pcb replacement, but price would be much higher.

I would be interested in purchasing 1, but more realistically probably 2. A brand new full PCB replacement would be ideal since then we would not be dealing with almost a 30 year old PCB and I understand the cost would be considerably higher. However, if you have to piggyback a new PCB to the existing PCB, that would not deter me from making a purchase. Some Coleco style label(s) would be great as well to give it the proper finishing touch!



#69 grips03 ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014 7:10 PM

I would be interested in purchasing 1, but more realistically probably 2. A brand new full PCB replacement would be ideal since then we would not be dealing with almost a 30 year old PCB and I understand the cost would be considerably higher. However, if you have to piggyback a new PCB to the existing PCB, that would not deter me from making a purchase. Some Coleco style label(s) would be great as well to give it the proper finishing touch!

 

I'll make a new thread.



#70 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014 7:42 PM

Just to help this thread get back on topic, here's my rendition of a gamepad design which I drew some years ago. I posted this on these forums a couple of times before. :)

And yes, those are elastics holding the overlay in place. Not the most elegant solution, but effective, and easely replaceable if an elastic breaks. :D

EDIT: And the round thing sticking out at the bottom is the Super Action Controller spinner.

Attached Thumbnails

  • ColecoVision joypad mockup.png


#71 grips03 ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014 7:56 PM

Just to help this thread get back on topic, here's my rendition of a gamepad design which I drew some years ago. I posted this on these forums a couple of times before. :)

And yes, those are elastics holding the overlay in place. Not the most elegant solution, but effective, and easely replaceable if an elastic breaks. :D

EDIT: And the round thing sticking out at the bottom is the Super Action Controller spinner.

 

 

Looks like a Gameboy Advanced with a keypad in the center.



#72 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 4, 2014 8:11 PM

 

Looks like a Gameboy Advanced with a keypad in the center.


Yeah, I like the GBA's ergonomics, so it was indeed a source of inspiration for this design. :)

#73 BladeJunker OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 5, 2014 1:17 PM

Just to help this thread get back on topic, here's my rendition of a gamepad design which I drew some years ago. I posted this on these forums a couple of times before. :)

And yes, those are elastics holding the overlay in place. Not the most elegant solution, but effective, and easely replaceable if an elastic breaks. :D

EDIT: And the round thing sticking out at the bottom is the Super Action Controller spinner.

That's not a bad idea, putting the Spinner on the bottom, not unlike the 360 keypad attachment. Maybe a small mouse style trackball could fit as well. I wonder if I should take a page from the 360 controller and just make the Spinner and or Roller an optional accessory to plug in?



#74 ten-four OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 5, 2014 4:54 PM

Seriously, this is a really good design you made a few years ago Luc. :)

 

Allow me to rectify a bit of your design.

 

I think that there should be 4 buttons instead of 2.

 

The two buttons at the far right is: left and right.

 

The two innermost is for: Super Action.

 

The two buttons on the front is fine, for example. Rollerball.

 

Instead of rubber bands should the joypad be fitted with a movable flap with one click keeps the small overlay in place. :)

tp-cv-joypad-pt2.png



#75 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 5, 2014 7:42 PM

 

Seriously, this is a really good design you made a few years ago Luc. :)
 
Allow me to rectify a bit of your design.
 
I think that there should be 4 buttons instead of 2.
 
The two buttons at the far right is: left and right.
 
The two innermost is for: Super Action.
 
The two buttons on the front is fine, for example. Rollerball.
 
Instead of rubber bands should the joypad be fitted with a movable flap with one click keeps the small overlay in place. :)
attachicon.giftp-cv-joypad-pt2.png


Your ideas aren't bad, but I have to disagree with the 4 face buttons. There simply aren't enough games that use the blue and purple buttons on the Super Action Controller to warrant grouping all four buttons together.

But on the other hand, if this controller was actually designed and manufactured, I would probably remove the top-side buttons, just to save on material and manufacturing costs, and if I really wanted to keep all four fire buttons, I'd probably place them together like in your drawing. :)

As for the overlay cover faceplate, I really like that idea, but I would do the lock-in mechanism slightly differently: What I would do is have a click-lock just like the ones on the battery compartment of TV/DVD remotes. See below.

Attached Thumbnails

  • overlay_cover.png





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