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Mystery Jag Project #1 ?


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#26 sh3-rg OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:50 AM

Maybe it's the Livewire proto ...... Wishful thinking

 

Doubtful or dml would have mentioned that when he posted here I'd have thought. Hey, I wonder if he's had his fill of ST/Falcon stuff now and is ready to take another look at livewire?! :0)



#27 Brian R. OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:09 AM

I'd like for a new Jaguar game actually worth buying to be released.



#28 Gemintronic ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:56 AM

I'd like for a new Jaguar game actually worth buying to be released.

 

Sorry, you get Drunken Pooper DX! :)



#29 sh3-rg OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:18 PM

I'd like for a new Jaguar game actually worth buying to be released.

 

Fuck that, it's tradition.



#30 Brian R. OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:38 PM

We see stuff released for the 2600 that really push the system, like PacMan 4K. We get quality new versions of arcade games for the 7800. The A8s had a totally passable version of PacMan, but we got an even better, closer to arcade version.

 

The only thing like that I know of for Jaguar is Battlesphere, and that's how long ago now? Most of the recent stuff I've seen put out appears to have been done on the Jaguar just for the sake of being done on the Jaguar, and don't really seem to stretch or even use the system's abilities.

 

Forget fresh or new games. I'd take a collection of arcade-perfect classics on CD for the Jag. Then I'd have a good reason to use the thing.



#31 sh3-rg OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:28 PM

We see stuff released for the 2600 that really push the system, like PacMan 4K. We get quality new versions of arcade games for the 7800. The A8s had a totally passable version of PacMan, but we got an even better, closer to arcade version.

 

The only thing like that I know of for Jaguar is Battlesphere, and that's how long ago now? Most of the recent stuff I've seen put out appears to have been done on the Jaguar just for the sake of being done on the Jaguar, and don't really seem to stretch or even use the system's abilities.

 

Forget fresh or new games. I'd take a collection of arcade-perfect classics on CD for the Jag. Then I'd have a good reason to use the thing.

 

Battlesphere was a commercial game designed by a team signed up with Atari under NDA. What's that got to do with anything at all? Because they took years to actually finish it and put it out when the Jaguar was all but forgotten?

 

As for the rest of it, if you're that upset there's only one thing to do - get off your arse and put the world to rights by yourself. That or learn what it actually is that you're talking about.

 

"push the jaguar" "stretch the capabilities" monkeys are 10 a penny. People who actually know their arse from their elbow when it comes to what's what with the Jaguar are much thinner on the ground.

 

It's hardly surprising that AtariAge, being a site that caters to retro gamers, is where people who make retro games hang out. You must be looking for the 90s-fart-inflated-polygon forum of 12fps fappage, it's 63 doors down on the right...



#32 Brian R. OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:44 PM

They finished and released the game after its demise, that was my thought.

 

I'm "not that upset" by anything. Don't go making assumptions and leaps. I'm happy with what I have for the Jag as-is. The so-called homebrew games and what not that have been released have not impressed me. I haven't seen anything come out for the Jag since BS that I've wanted to buy.

 

As for learning what I'm talking about - do you really need to be insulting?

 

I don't make retro games, I play retro games. I grew up with Atari - in the 80s. Just because I don't make games doesn't mean I don't have any right to be here. Be respectful, if you're capable of that.

 

Ah... I see now... you've made some of the games I'm not impressed by and don't want to buy... that explains it.

 

Tonight I'll be playing Juno First on my 2600... and probably my new PacMan Arcade and Deluxe Invaders on my 800XL... classic "fart-inflated-polygon" games.


Edited by Brian R., Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:20 PM.


#33 Gemintronic ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:55 PM

pushjag.jpg

 

Sometimes the harder you push the less enjoyable it is for both parties.



#34 82-T/A OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:38 PM

I'd like for a new Jaguar game actually worth buying to be released.

 

Robinson's Requiem is pretty good...



#35 NinSEGA OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:59 PM

As is Another World, which is an actual game.



#36 82-T/A OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:24 PM

As is Another World, which is an actual game.

 

Which should have a second run ASAP...



#37 sh3-rg OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:30 PM

They finished and released the game after its demise, that was my thought.

 
An incorrect thought. Releasing after the commercial life of a system doesn't make it homebrew,  just late.
 

As for learning what I'm talking about - do you really need to be insulting?

 
You'd only find that insulting if in fact you did know what you were talking about. Being publicly corrected probably made it feel like an insult.
 
You said the only thing you knew of for Jaguar was Battlesphere - the only thing you knew of was wrong. Hence, go learn some ish before talking it. If you find that insulting, maybe consider how a few dozen authors of Jaguar homebrews might feel when sat reading your words... people who spent days, weeks and months of their lives making games and putting them out, often for free and nothing more than just because they wanted to, only for some half-baked twonk to come along and belittle their efforts from a position of no technical understanding whatsoever. Ah, right, they'd probably let out a collective "meh"...hmmmmm.
 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion on any game, but it's those who actually take the time to play them first to avoid making incorrect statements that bring any gravitas. When the opinions are blanketed and presented in terms of a game being technically bereft of merit but made without any technical understanding to validate them, they often come across looking a bit try-hard or cuntish.
 

Be respectful, if you're capable of that.

 
Respect is earned. Spouting of half-baked nonsense about games you have never even played earns Nil Points in this regard (but it does reap masses of bonus points towards legendary Jagtard status).
 
If you really want to consider respect, maybe just enjoy your nights in with your 2600, 7800 and atari 8 and don't go out of your way to belittle the efforts of Atari/Jaguar game devs without even playing the games.

 

Ah... I see now... you've made some of the games I'm not impressed by and don't want to buy... that explains it.

 
Not really, that's largely irrelevant. Some of the best games ever made are not technically battering the hardware they run on, if people only ever played and bought games that made them go "wow, dat tech!" there would be a hell of a lot more shallow and lacking games out there. That's just common sense.

 

As for you not wanting to buy our games: ell-oh-ell. People who buy our games are only a fraction of those who play them. The less people buying them, the more time we have to spend making them. #truthfact.
 
I am passionate about making and putting out free games for the Jaguar and when ignorant people decide to shoot off at the mouth I tend to like to put them in their place. So, when you are looking for "what explains it"  it is in fact this and nothing more.
 
Inane whining about pushing the Jaguar that has already been regurgitated time and time again by a clutter of derp-factor-sixty-four tards over many years, people who, as you admit to yourself, know exactly zero about what the Jaguar can or cannot do or how impressive or otherwise any given game might be in technical terms, they "just know", well it's just piss-poor. When keyboard warriors are quick to criticise the work others do solely for fun, that's what I find irritating and disrespectful, so that's probably the vibe you picked up on. 
 
I've been to shows, some with attendees in the 1000s, where dozens and dozens of people have sat and played games I've worked on and even sometimes queued up for a few minutes to do so. I've seen, heard and discussed their reactions first-hand, I've seen them have "just one more go" 6 or 7 times in a row, I've seen them come back an hour later for more, I've seen kids get shouted at by parents because they need to get moving and I've seen parents left blasting away while the kids have wandered off to find their own fun. I've seen people take the piss out of the Jaguar then sit there for 10 minutes hammering away on the fire button after playing a 60fps "retro game" that's relentless, unforgiving and they have exactly zero idea about what the box in front of them is or isn't really capable of. I've had people tell me the game they played was the most fun they've had all day at the event, that they'd barely heard about an Atari Jaguar before but either want to buy one with the game or "please, please port it to whatever-the-hell-system-they-prefer". When you're someone who has experienced that maybe that's when you develop a low tolerance threshold and have exactly fuck-all time for those who just mouth off throwaway comments all brass-bollocksy about every single jaguar homebrew, ever.
 

Tonight I'll be playing Juno First on my 2600... and probably my new PacMan Arcade and Deluxe Invaders on my 800XL... classic "fart-inflated-polygon" games.

 
Living the dream...
 
There's not a single polygon in any one of those games I'd have thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, but each of the games themselves sits very much on the side of gameplay first and foremost rather than form first, function second. Your arguments seem somewhat confused and contrived.
 
"Pushing systems" doesn't make fun games, in fact it often leads to unplayable messes that only win by look great in screen shots or videos or as talking points with friends. It's people that make fun games and they do it in all kinds of ways with all levels of expertise in technical wowness. If someone is so blinkered that they won't even try a game on a system because they believe it's beneath what their perception of the Atari Jaguar Sixty-Four-Bit Multi Media Powerstation's technical capabilities states, then they might want to own up to having a bizarre and unhealthy bias and refrain from spunking their load in public.

 

Attitudes like "bain't bin nuttin' since battlesphere" probably don't deserve the time taken to reply, so in that case, maybe I should have just offered this instead:
 
tl;dr: Sometimes is seems the only way some people would truly enjoy their Jaguar post-Atari is to lube it up and insert sideways.



#38 sh3-rg OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:32 PM

 

attachicon.gifpushjag.jpg

 

Sometimes the harder you push the less enjoyable it is for both parties.

 

 

That's no Jaguar, it's just a harmless little pussy...

 

... and that's where people go wrong in the first place.



#39 Brian R. OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:40 PM

Wow. All you have done is misunderstand, misinterpret, twist and distort anything and everything I said. And I really didn't say that much too start - you blew it up, and blew up.

 

I never said Battlesphere was a homebrew. I said it was the only game that's been released for the Jag since it went out of production that has been worth buying - for me.

 

There's nothing - nothing - to correct me on. I gave my opinion. Opinions are one's opinions and do not need corrected, by you or anyone. I didn't really "spout off" anything - I was pretty brief. If anyone has spouted off, it's you.

 

I never said Battlesphere is the only thing I know about the Jaguar. I know a lot about it. Just because I don't program for it doesn't mean I don't know anything.

 

I have looked with interest at games that have been released for the Jaguar since Battlesphere. They have failed to impress. They have not interested me enough to download, and certainly not to pay money for. Conversely, I've bought several homebrews and hacks for other Atari systems.

 

You have not put me in any place. If you wanted to make a point about the games you or anyone else has made being fun or worth playing, you blew that with your attitude and thin skin. It's like you're talking to someone else or responding to someone else, and not to anything I actually said. You could have gone about this completely differently, to pique my interest, engage me, get me thinking, to try some of the games I've looked at and disregarded, for whatever my reasons are. Instead you choose to be crude, rude, childish, arrogant and insulting.

 

Was "downfall" one of your games? If I want to play that game I'll play Fall Down for the 2600. Playing a game like that on Jaguar is a waste of the system. When I first saw "downfall," my first thought was, why would I want to play Fall Down on the Jaguar?! I paid money for Fall Down, and I'll enjoy that for years. (Is your game a copy, the name a flip-flop?)

 

The two in the store? Don't interest me either. I couldn't stand that constant firing sound on Kobayashi Maru for more than a few seconds - and you had to rip off Star Trek with the name?

 

It is about gameplay. And the gameplay is there, on the 2600. But the Jaguar can do more, it should do more - just as the 5200 does, the 8 bits do, the 7800 does, the Lynx does. Gameplay first, but graphics are part of it. Apparently no one has been able to get the graphics and the gameplay together into a desirable product.

 

I have 37 cartridges and 11 CDs that give me a pretty good idea what the Jaguar is capable of, in graphics and gameplay. I know the Jag does 2D better than 3D, and its 3D efforts aren't the greatest - although some are good, like Iron Soldier. Maybe you missed where I said I'd like a collection of classic arcade games to play on the Jag? If I was all about graphics and tech and "64-bit," why would I have said that?

 

I used your "fart inflated polygon" verbage because you made an assumption about me that was incorrect. You are the one who is confused; and what was contrived were your own words. Gameplay is what matters to me. The point is the efforts on the Jaguar don't appeal in the gameplay or graphics departments.

 

Respect from a person like you is unwanted; and giving respect to a person like you is unwarranted.

 

I guess the presence of people like you is why people can discuss games in every other forum on AtariAge, but not in here.

 

I have enough games to enjoy my Jaguar post-Atari, thanks.


Edited by Brian R., Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:39 PM.


#40 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:31 PM

I was going to reply with a wall of text, but my second thought was this guy isn't worth the effort.

 

 Playing a game like that on Jaguar is a waste of the system. When I first saw "downfall," my first thought was, why would I want to play Fall Down on the Jaguar?! 



#41 Brian R. OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:41 PM

Good. Best not to waste either of our time.


Edited by Brian R., Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:57 PM.


#42 ggn ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:53 AM

Yep, we'd better bring out 3/4s of the humanity and execute them for playing minesweeper on modern PCs because "why would someone play minesweeper on a PC that can do real time 3D graphics????!?!?!? OUTRAGE!"



#43 mckafka99 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:49 AM

"why would I want to play Fall Down on the Jaguar?!"

Um,......because it it fun (and free)?? Perhaps you don't own the same game across multiple platforms but IMHO, in a lot of cases, platform specific versions of the same game bring something unique and fun that makes having them worth while.

If you don't think it's valuable to have the same (or similar) games across multiple consoles, that's fair enough but you may be denying yourself the opportunity for additional fun. As far as Downfall goes, you might want to give it a whirl. (http://reboot.atari....t/downfall.html)

#44 Gemintronic ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:07 AM


Ah... I see now... you've made some of the games I'm not impressed by and don't want to buy... that explains it.

 

This kind of reminds me of a situation where a random developer took offense for gawd knows what and decided to poke instead of discuss.  He literally used the jawsome haxing power of Google to search for my work and insult me publicly.  I was amazed to find out my Atari Jaguar projects were greedy, money grubbing garbage - especially considering I never released anything!

http://forums.ouya.t...-jtn0514#latest

 

Accusing homebrew developers of being shovelware shills is not impressive or constructive in any way.



#45 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:36 AM

Shhhhh... can't shake this feeling with all the talk about Minesweeper, we'll be seeing that next on the Jag. On cart. Limited numbered edition of course. And for the low low price of $80, only to be hawked later by sellers that purchased multiple copies for hundreds more. :rolling:

#46 Gemintronic ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:43 AM

Shhhhh... can't shake this feeling with all the talk about Minesweeper, we'll be seeing that next on the Jag. On cart. Limited numbered edition of course. And for the low low price of $80, only to be hawked later by sellers that purchased multiple copies for hundreds more. :rolling:

 

What cave did you just crawl out from?  Minesweeper 2000 is all Husky streams these days!



#47 Brian R. OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:08 PM

"why would I want to play Fall Down on the Jaguar?!"

Um,......because it it fun (and free)?? Perhaps you don't own the same game across multiple platforms but IMHO, in a lot of cases, platform specific versions of the same game bring something unique and fun that makes having them worth while.

If you don't think it's valuable to have the same (or similar) games across multiple consoles, that's fair enough but you may be denying yourself the opportunity for additional fun. As far as Downfall goes, you might want to give it a whirl. (http://reboot.atari....t/downfall.html)

 

As part of my Atari inventory I made up a "multi-system" game list. It's amazing how many games I have across two, three, four or five systems. Sometimes the most enjoyable version of a game to play is not on the "most powerful" system.

 

I had looked at and disregarded downfall a long time ago. No one knew, no one cared, and no one attacked me for it. Now I have other reasons to never play it. But thanks for your perspective.


Edited by Brian R., Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:08 PM.


#48 Brian R. OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:14 PM

 

This kind of reminds me of a situation where a random developer took offense for gawd knows what and decided to poke instead of discuss.  He literally used the jawsome haxing power of Google to search for my work and insult me publicly.  I was amazed to find out my Atari Jaguar projects were greedy, money grubbing garbage - especially considering I never released anything!

http://forums.ouya.t...-jtn0514#latest

 

Accusing homebrew developers of being shovelware shills is not impressive or constructive in any way.

 

This shitstorm in a teacup started with me simply saying I'd like to see some new Jag games come out that I would like to buy and play. It was a rather innocent statement.

 

I did not know, and was not aware, that this sh3-rg guy was one of or among some guys who have been making games on the Jag. Some of the games I knew of, but I had not made the connection. My initial comments were not directed at him or them, as I was unaware of their involvement. I didn't even specify any of the games at first. He took my general comments about the games as a direct and personal attack against him and his "mates." It wasn't.



#49 mckafka99 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:47 PM

 
As part of my Atari inventory I made up a "multi-system" game list. It's amazing how many games I have across two, three, four or five systems. Sometimes the most enjoyable version of a game to play is not on the "most powerful" system.
 
I had looked at and disregarded downfall a long time ago. No one knew, no one cared, and no one attacked me for it. Now I have other reasons to never play it. But thanks for your perspective.


Hardly an attack, just a friendly suggestion to try to take the edge off how you are coming across.

#50 Brian R. OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:05 PM

Hardly an attack, just a friendly suggestion to try to take the edge off how you are coming across.

 

Didn't mean you. No troubles. :)

 

To me, it's not so much about how I came across, and more about how some read it - and what they read into it, and the wild assumptions they make.

 

Like what you said about not having games across multiple systems. You didn't know that I do. You guessed maybe I didn't. But I do.






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