Paul Westphal Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 OK. When I win the lottery, I'm going to start a Jaguar development team. The first project would be a 3D platformer, along the lines of Croc.How much do you think it would be to pay the developers? ( and not being cheap like Atari. )I'm thinking $50k? Just development and not production costs. Want to chime in CJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Thought this was going to have something to do with a developers mental state after working on the Jag. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I'm thinking $50k? Each? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinSEGA Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If you are serious (doubtful), you'd be better off gathering a bunch of college students that are invested in programming but have free time on their hands. You'll also need a devkit unit for everyone to use. Then Kickstarter the hell out of that shit. However, start on a small project like porting a game like Putty Squad with readily-available source code to the system (but make sure you get the license from the original devs/pubs first!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Then Kickstarter the hell out of that shit. you need a sizeable interest base if you're just going to drop a kickstarter and hope for it to succeed on the enthusiasm of Jaguar fans alone- much greater than the Jaguar has. You'd need to sell it as some sort of an investment consortium. I can imagine, getting 500 speculators to each invest $500 in a game that will receive only 500 copies printed with the anticpation that the value will rise dramatically due to the combination of the limited print run and the fact that a decent game could actually be made for $250,000 with a well coordinated effort. If you are serious (doubtful), you'd be better off gathering a bunch of college students that are invested in programming but have free time on their hands. Edited April 13, 2014 by Willard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If you are serious (doubtful), you'd be better off gathering a bunch of college students that are invested in programming but have free time on their hands. That didn't work out too well, back in the day, for Atari did it? I'd imagine the OP's conversation goes something like: Student - "Where is the DirectX/OpenGL/OpenGL ES library?" OP - "There isn't one, you have to write everything yourself." Student - "OK! Where is the SDL library then?" OP - "There isn't one, you have to write everything yourself." Student - "OK, How about a sound library?" OP - "There isn't one, you have to write everything yourself." Then watch as the student bolts for the door. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinSEGA Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 That didn't work out too well, back in the day, for Atari did it? I'd imagine the OP's conversation goes something like: Student - "Where is the DirectX/OpenGL/OpenGL ES library?" OP - "There isn't one, you have to write everything yourself." Student - "OK! Where is the SDL library then?" OP - "There isn't one, you have to write everything yourself." Student - "OK, How about a sound library?" OP - "There isn't one, you have to write everything yourself." Then watch as the student bolts for the door. Just copy/paste the libraries from another game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Just copy/paste the libraries from another game. Sure! That'll work! Good luck porting Unity3D to the jag . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Just copy/paste the libraries from another game. Sure! That'll work! It works really well for fake retro journalism, and bullshit bootleg Jaguar video CDs! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) $80k-$120k, per team member, per year, minimum. 1 or 2 programmers 1 or 2 graphic designers 1 musician 1 or 2 lever designers so, you are looking at around $800k - assuming what you want programmed can be done in a year. Don't forget the recruiter cuts, probably a cool million? Factor in your potential sales (150-200 units at $60-$80 per unit minus production costs) - and... Good luck finding investors (And some people wonder why the home brew authors get touchy when completely ignorant posters make completely ignorant statements about the validity of their work, which they do for, on the most part, free) Edited April 13, 2014 by CyranoJ 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinSEGA Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 $80k-$120k, per team member, per year, minimum. 1 or 2 programmers 1 or 2 graphic designers 1 musician 1 or 2 lever designers so, you are looking at around $800k - assuming what you want programmed can be done in a year. Don't forget the recruiter cuts, probably a cool million? Factor in your potential sales (150-200 units at $60-$80 per unit) - and... Good luck finding investors How do the guys behind emulators do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 The same way home brew authors do it, for the love of it. When it becomes a job, it requires a salary. How do the guys behind emulators do it? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 I'd better win a HUMONGOUS lottery! Until then, the best I can do is buy homebrew games and support their efforts so we can see more development. The first Jag homebrew I'm going to buy : The Rocketeer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 ... Putty Squad with readily-available source code... Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinSEGA Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Where? I should have worded that better. The source code to Putty Squad wasn't tossed in the trash like the majority of abandoned games out there, so it's readily available in the sense that if you get the rights to use it from System 3, you'll have viable source code to work with. I hope one of the Jaguar programming teams actually go through with that idea one day. They'd be guaranteed to sell out of all of their copies, especially if they advertise it on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 This is no reflection on you Paul. YOU are awesome. When I was young and my computer broke I took it to a local repair shop. The cost for professional service was gargantuan compared to my available fund-age as a teen. Needless to say I went home with a still broken PC. To me, the very next step was to dig through the manuals I had handy and fix it myself. About a week and 5 reinstalls of DOS later I was back in business. Why isn't the next logical step for game ideas the same? Do it yourself. Ask for help along the way. Again, Paul Westphal has the next best plan of action. Just sayin in general The cost of Jaguar development is personal time, self education and passion. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 The home brew games I have seen thus far have the gameplay down and have great sound and music. Seeing a game a game that pushes the hardware to the point of smoking is a ways off ( SkyHammer might be close ). So until then I will be building my HB collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 1 or 2 programmers 1 or 2 graphic designers 1 musician 1 or 2 lever designers Good start, but I'd also add: 1 or 2 for bespoke tools e.g. level editors/data extractors/profiler/debugger etc. 1 expert on physics and kinematics 2 QA guys - You really don't want to play the same level 100+ times yourself 1 3D modeller. Oh look.... the team has doubled in size and its still barely enough. You'll also need a manager for that lot too. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Yeah. As a software tester I was the bane of every programmers existence. Somehow I was always indirectly blamed for missing shipping dates. When making games I'm always surprised at what *I* miss considering my background. Regardless of testing methods NOT being the developer is critical to finding unexpected flaws in software. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/jaguar/jagfiles/jag64-payments.PDF Edit: that document is linked to in this thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/159946-ever-wonder-how-much-developers-were-paid/?hl=curt&do=findComment&comment=1967982 Edited April 14, 2014 by roland p 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinSEGA Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/jaguar/jagfiles/jag64-payments.PDF Edit: that document is linked to in this thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/159946-ever-wonder-how-much-developers-were-paid/?hl=curt&do=findComment&comment=1967982 lol, I like the notes. No No! NO. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 NBA JAM was a tad expensive then... vs the amount of copies sold, I presume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Wow.. Over a million bucks readied to be ponied up for MK3.. On the Jag CD nonetheless. Who could've foretold how much money they would have lost on that one? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 OK. When I win the lottery, I'm going to start a Jaguar development team. The first project would be a 3D platformer, along the lines of Croc.How much do you think it would be to pay the developers? ( and not being cheap like Atari. )I'm thinking $50k? Just development and not production costs. Regardless of how much money you pour into it, you cannot expect to get the full 3d engine and a game for a croc-style game done within one year from a coder that never wrote a SW rasterizer in ASM. That's completely unrealistic. You can't have 5 coders fighting over the same codebase, that's just gonna slow things down and after a year there will not be much done. So, that leaves us with about 2 coders (each working on a different area of the engine) that can comfortably, without stepping on each other's toes, steadily progress. However, the actual production team - artists, level designers, testers, would be largely sitting on their butts, browsing, and playing Warcraft, before they would get some tools to create the actual content. I'm sure you wouldn't want to pay for that. A much more reasonable approach would be, to pay just ONE coder for a year, and see how far he gets. And even if he takes longer (and he will, since we're talking research, unless you can get your hands on ex-jag coder), at least you are not wasting any money on the artists. Once the coder has a 1-level vertical-slice-style demo (with the audio,input,GUI,AI,gameplay), with programmer's art (ugly, but code does not care for aesthetics), and you have some benchmarks as to how many polygons can artists use, THEN you can just search for artists/designers/testers. If you are feeling rich, you can throw in another coder that will take care of audio/gui/ai/gameplay - he will most certainly be busy whole year with those tasks. Two coders can get pretty far within a year. I'm sure it wouldn't be completely playable game with all gameplay elements, but it would be pretty close. Simply, until you got a working prototype in your hands, don't blow the money on big team, just yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Firefox crashed on me when sending the reply, so I'll just quickly summarize it again: -$50k in US does not even get you a student, so forget it. - Go offshore - Eastern Europe - some small cities still pay coders 10,000-15,000 EUR per year. There, with $50k, you can get a working prototype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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