Atari 7800 controllers

[mckafka99]

Thanks for the information! Much appreciated

[BigO]

I happened to have a wiring harness from something that had most of the colors so I matched up the color of the cable wires when I extended them.

This job could be done more efficiently and cleanly. I just wanted to get it done. But, just to give you some idea of what a finished product might look like inside:

 

An interesting thing I noticed in the SI game: the buttons look like they are designed to accommodate micro switches.

Edited July 28, 2014 by BigO

[Andromeda Stardust]

Oh, and I scavenged a cable from a Sega Genesis controller. The really flexible cable was kind of a pain to deal with. Each wire is a group of fine copper conductors spiral wrapped around a series of flexible synthetic cores of some sort. Not recommended for soldering but it can be done.

Stop butchering original Sega Genesis controllers for the cables. Use extension cables or clones. I used these for my NES controller:

http://www.stoneagegamer.com/genesis-controller-extension-cable.html

 

The extension cables are generally better quality than clones and have a thickness comparable to original controller cables, but the clone controller cables are typically a couple extra feet. The fine fibers found inside the wires of official NES and Genny controllers are hell to solder too. Once you've cut the cord and find it full of nylon fibers, you're pretty much screwed as far as using it for anything else.

[Andromeda Stardust]

The "Radica Space Invaders > 7800 joystick" Started by remowilliams, 3 Jul 2005 thread has all the goods, but even on the Waybackmachine/Internet Archive, much of the thread is hosed up (pages 4-9).

 

Here are a few things I could gather:

 

"You actually are just going to cut the leads to the Space Invaders PCB and stick it in the bin - where it belongs

You'll need to tie one side of all the buttons into a ground (then tie that ground into the ground that goes around the microswitches on the stick). Then connect that ground to the 7800 cord ground.

 

Then you tie the other wires of two buttons at a time (I tied my inner buttons together, and the outer ones together) then wire those up according to the button wiring in the 7800 FAQ on AA.

 

Then you simply connect the directional wires from the 7800 cord one at a time to the proper microswitch - using the NO (Normally Open) leads on each microswitch.

 

You can do it without using perfboard. I used one to simplify (and cut down the amount) of wire inside the stick. I do have another SI joystick sitting here and a mostly finished little board, so when I get the chance to assemble my second stick, I'll try to document the steps"

https://web.archive.org/web/20120624022710/http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/72198-radica-space-invaders-%26gt%3B-7800-joystick/page__st__25?do=findComment&comment=896049

 

Also, this note:

"I didn't have any 620ohm resistors laying around either, so I put a 680 and a 6.8K (had a bunch of these) in parallel and it works fine."

https://web.archive.org/web/20120622052705/http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/72198-radica-space-invaders-%26gt%3B-7800-joystick/?do=findComment&comment=885761

 

And...

 

Decals for printing (Links still work):

https://web.archive.org/web/20130521162643/http://atariage.com/forums/topic/72198-radica-space-invaders-%26gt%3B-7800-joystick/page__st__250?do=findComment&comment=2548450

7800: https://web.archive.org/web/20130521162643/http://atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=249747

Blank: https://web.archive.org/web/20130521162643/http://atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=249746

 

In case the decals links go down here they are:

AtariRSI7800Decal.zip

AtariRSIBlankDecal.zip

 

Plus...

 

"The following is the cheap way to make the label instead of paying to have it professionally printed.

 

Materials Needed:

• Sharpie Pen
• Laminating Sheet
• Photo Paper
• Mod Podge (glue)
• X-acto knife

Directions:

• Print out the decal on photo paper.
• Apply a laminating sheet by starting at one end and slowly apply it moving your finger back and forth to avoid air bubbles. If you get any air bubbles start the entire process over because your decal is already screwed.
• Once the laminating sheet has been applied you will see areas that look hazy. You need to rub this down until this disappers. I use the edge of a credit card.
• Next very carefully cut out the excess white border. Cut along the outer black edge, not the orange edge.
• Once its cut out take a Sharpie pen and color the edge of the decal to get ride of the white.
• Now you need to apply the label to your RSI. Make sure the old decal is completely removed and the RSI has a dry clean surface. I use Mod Podge to glue it down which you can get at Hobby Lobby or other craft stores.
• Using a popsicle stick apply a thin layer of glue to the entire back of the decal.
• Now apply the decal to your RSI. Once you have it positioned correctly use your finger and rub the decal to make sure it is making contact all over. Try to remove any excess glue around the outer edges. Also rub off any glue you may have gotten on your label when applying.
• Let it dry completely. This will take a few hours.
• Once dry take a sharp x-acto knife and cut out the 4 button holes.
• Next you need to cutout the joystick hole. Try to cut as close to the outer edge of the whole as possible. You don't need to get it perfect since you can trim it up after you cut out the main piece. Once you have the piece cut out use your x-acto knife to cut the label right up to the outer edge. Now take your Sharpie pen and color the white exposed edges.
• That's pretty much it."

The good news is that it appears from the thread that several people did it on their own and are still active here. Hopefully, one or more will chime in on this thread to fill in any other additional details needed/required.

 

H311bender made some SWEET looking decals: https://web.archive.org/web/20120624022122/http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/72198-radica-space-invaders-%26gt%3B-7800-joystick/page__st__225?do=findComment&comment=2543227

 

BurgerTime

IMG_1835.jpg

 

Mario Bros.

IMG_1841-1.jpg

 

Aw man...This Donkey Kong one ...lol.

IMG_1842-1.jpg

Nice tut. I wonder why the page on AA won't load?

 

As for the resistor values, the exact value isn't critical. Anything remotely close to the 620 value should work. I used 560 ohm resistors in my NES conversion and my 7800 arcade box. They worked fine. 680 should make a great substitute as well, but I wouldn't go lower than 470 or higher than 820.

 

The important thing to bear in mind during the build is that the action buttons in the 7800 do not share a common ground like the joystick/Dpad, but instead connect to Pin 6 (Fire). If you are building off an existing PCB, you will have to sever any ground traces connecting the action buttons to the directional controls.

Edited July 28, 2014 by stardust4ever

[+GoldenWheels]

Thanks for the info there Trebor. I'm not sure who made mine (bought it on ebay) but I have wanted to put some 7800 centric art on there since I got it. Now I have the art (though I hope to come up with a better application process!)

[mickcris]

Made myself a 7800 and also an Sega Master System controller out of a couple of NES pads. Not sure if the paint I used is going to hold up, and probably should have researched it a little before painting.

 

 

The start/selcet are is filled with Sugru and I got the decals from here (smallest size for each):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221201588811

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261159037080

[Andromeda Stardust]

Nice work. Paint came out really good. Sega is definitely the easier mod to do since all buttons share a common ground and it isn't really necessary to cut traces, just desolder the 4021 chip and add controller wires. If you wired it properly and left the pullup resistors intact, it might also work with 2600 homebrews that use the extra button. If the second fire button doesn't register on 2600 homebrews that use it, you might try adding a diode or resistor between the Sega VCC and Atari VCC.

Edited August 1, 2014 by stardust4ever

[mickcris]

thanks. probably could have done a better paint job, but it will work for now. The guide i followed for the sms said to just do the 7800 mod with a few changes. So I did disconnect all of the resistors. It does work perfectly on the master system though. I dont currently have any 2600 homebrews or a flash cart for it, but I may revisit the wiring later if I want to use it for that.

[TheGameCollector]

Hey does anyone know if the Atari 7800 Flashback controllers work with both buttons as separate function on the 2-button games on an original Atari 7800?

[alex_79]

Nope, the Flashback 1 ones are actually nes controllers which use a db9 plug instead of the nes proprietary one. They won't work at all with an atari console unless rewired (and you have to change the cord too, because it doesn't have all the wires required).

[homebrewreseller13]

go to www.bestelectronics.com he has the cx78 joypad controllers for like 25.00 each and even has NOS games for the 7800. He also has other controllers available its worth checking out if that's what your looking for. I have one and the only problem I have is it sticks in the down position sometimes not enough to mess up my game play though.

[bigbacon]

I just got a 7800 today (after my parents threw out my childhood one) with 3 controllers and none of them work 100%

 

should I just buy the new old stock ones or can I fix them some how like you can with 2600 controllers? Bend the pads maybe? replace them? some don't work in certain directions, one is stuck going up all the time no matter what.

Edited August 13, 2014 by bigbacon

[Prosystemsearch]

Nope, the Flashback 1 ones are actually nes controllers which use a db9 plug instead of the nes proprietary one. They won't work at all with an atari console unless rewired (and you have to change the cord too, because it doesn't have all the wires required).

I know this is definately true for the 7800, but what about the 2600 or XEGS?? They have different layouts than the Prosystem.

[Shawn]

I know this is definately true for the 7800, but what about the 2600 or XEGS?? They have different layouts than the Prosystem.

 

Just stop. Go back under the bridge you crawled out from under and just forget AtariAge exists. If you really are as ignorant

as your posts indicate than I feel sorry for you. I almost hope your just trolling at this point for your sake as the former makes

it hard to believe you understand how to turn a computer on let alone use it.

[bikeguychicago]

Does anyone know if it's possible to swap out the joystick in the Radica with a more durable one? If so, has anyone done it and which joystick did you use in its place?

[BigO]

The joystick in the Radica was a bit of a surprise for me. It uses actual snap action microswitches. The mechanism itself may not be arcade quality, but I wouldn't expect it to fail easily unless you mounted the controller solidly to something.

 

Having said that, I don't think there's enough room in there to put a full arcade quality joystick. The joystick itself really provides most of the value from that SI game. If I were thinking of replacing the joystick, I'd seriously consider building a whole controller from scratch.

[Prosystemsearch]

 

Just stop. Go back under the bridge you crawled out from under and just forget AtariAge exists. If you really are as ignorant

as your posts indicate than I feel sorry for you. I almost hope your just trolling at this point for your sake as the former makes

it hard to believe you understand how to turn a computer on let alone use it.

No, I will NOT. Just why are you being such a douche to me, Shawn? What did I do? Is it that hard to look the other way?

[Andromeda Stardust]

I know this is definately true for the 7800, but what about the 2600 or XEGS?? They have different layouts than the Prosystem.

 

Just stop. Go back under the bridge you crawled out from under and just forget AtariAge exists. If you really are as ignorant

as your posts indicate than I feel sorry for you. I almost hope your just trolling at this point for your sake as the former makes

it hard to believe you understand how to turn a computer on let alone use it.

Agreed. Prosystem has no idea what he's talking about.

 

2600 controllers work with the majority of 7800 games which do not use 2-button support. 7800 controllers also work flawlessly on 2600 systems with zero compatibility issues since the systems were designed to be backwards compatible.

 

NES/SNES/FB1/Famiclones standard uses a serial connection with separate data and clock signals (8 clock bits for NES; 16 clock bits for SNES) whereas 2600 and 7800 are parallel. Famiclones or Pirate NES hardware often use the 5-wire NES signals through a 9-pin sub connector plug because these are presumably cheaper to manufacture than proprietary NES ports. There is zero compatability between anything Sega or Atari and NES clones or pirate systems.

 

You can also use Genesis controllers on the majority of 2600 and one-button 7800 games, although it will have major compatibility issues with two-button 7800 games. Genesis uses a signal select line to switch outputs between two different sets of buttons, but the select line is held high by Atari VCC so everything maps nicely to the Dpad and B button. Select 2600 Homebrews can also read additional signal from the C button through the paddle inputs.

 

Sadly due to 7800 schematic design, no 2600 homebrew can differentiate between the two 7800 controller buttons regardless of hardware as they function identically on the 2600 end.

[BigO]

Sadly due to 7800 schematic design, no 2600 homebrew can differentiate between the two 7800 controller buttons regardless of hardware as they function identically on the 2600 end.

Are you referring to running on 2600 console hardware? Pretty sure I saw a 2600 homebrew (Rally) distinguishing between the two 7800 controller buttons on 7800 hardware.

[Shawn]

No, I will NOT. Just why are you being such a douche to me, Shawn? What did I do? Is it that hard to look the other way?

 

What did you do? You created an AtariAge account when you know nothing, own nothing and have nothing to contribute

to anything relevant to things Atari. I'm not looking the other way, you need get lost Short Bus.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Are you referring to running on 2600 console hardware? Pretty sure I saw a 2600 homebrew (Rally) distinguishing between the two 7800 controller buttons on 7800 hardware.

With a properly wired 7800 controller, with resistor values ranging in the 560-680 ohms ballpark, neither a 2600 nor a 7800 operating in 2600 mode can differentiate between the two buttons. In 2600 operation, the 7800 controller will output a low logic on pin 6 (FIRE) when either button is pressed, and both paddle pins will remain low at all times. In two-button 7800 operation, FIRE is held high by the console, and each button pulls up one of the paddle pins when pressed. It is impossible for 2600 software, running on either a 7800 or a 2600, to force the console to provide sufficient current to the FIRE pin to activate the two-button operation. On a 2600 this is electrically impossible, and on a 7800, two button operation can only be enabled when Maria is operational. Maria cannot be turned on and is disabled at all times when the 7800 is operating in 2600 compatability mode.

 

There is no hidden register for 2600 games to activate 7800 exclusive hardware modes such as Maria, extra CPU cycles or RAM. Once the 7800 fails the integrity check or is booted into 2600 mode, it is stuck there until reboot. Additionally, a 2600 game would need the extra 7800 address pins to access the full address space in order to pass the 7800 checksum verification, so if some quasi-hybrid 2600/7800 mode exists and is somehow accessible (for example, TIA video with extra RAM, CPU, etc), it would need the full 7800 cart pinout making it incompatible with 2600 systems. I heard rumors there was a 2600 homebrew that only worked on 7800 hardware, but have never played it.

[Trebor]

I heard rumors there was a 2600 homebrew that only worked on 7800 hardware, but have never played it.

Save Mary...however, I believe there may be a 2600 hardware compatible version too.

[BigO]

I went back and double checked what I thought I saw on that homebrew 2600 game. I believe I was very badly misinterpreting something I saw.

[CPUWIZ]

Save Mary...however, I believe there may be a 2600 hardware compatible version too.

 

Yes, they hacked it to use the 7800's RAM, because they didn't have SARA boards. My SARA boards for the 2600 run Save Mary just fine on the 2600.

[BigO]

 

Yes, they hacked it to use the 7800's RAM, because they didn't have SARA boards. My SARA boards for the 2600 run Save Mary just fine on the 2600.

Wasn't there a version running on the FB2?