Best ST model for gaming?

[Serious]

I'd like to add an Atari 16-bit machine to my collection for gaming.

 

I've never owned an ST (or related) system before, so I'm unsure of which would be the best model to buy for maximum compatibility.

 

I know that with the Amiga computers, many games created during the 500/1000/2000 era won't run on the later hardware. I'm unsure if the there are similar issues with later Atari ST models or not?

 

 

 

 

[tjlazer]

I would get a 520ST or 1040STf. Just make sure you get one with a DSDD drive (720k) If you can get one with the RF modulator if you plan on using a TV set with it, otherwise get a nice RGB monitor for it.

[pixelmischief]

Although they can be alittle pricey by comparison, I'd recommend a 1040STe. The difference in both sound and graphics performance are noticeable, and a few of the games that require the STe are absolute gems. Obsession pinball is probably my favorite, but Dynabuster and Asteroidia are both pretty awesome, too. The ability to easily upgrade to 4MB of RAM by just popping in 4 SIMMs is pretty cool. And, if you upgrade to TOS 2.06, you can also upgrade your floppy drive to 1.44MB. All in all, it's my favorite 16/32 bit Atari; even over my Mega 4 STe, Falcon, and TT.

[+CyranoJ]

The best ST for gaming would be a MegaSTE, probably the most practical though is a 1040STe.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

I agree with CJ . Mega STE is best for gaming, even if it has not game friendly TOS 2.06 . The reason is faster CPU (16 MHz selectable), so may make some slow games more enjoyable - see this example:

it is very slow on regular 8 MHz ST, STE. Compatibility: Mega STE works at 8 MHz normally. Main problem is TOS 2.06, but today most of good games is fixed for working under that TOS. Same stays for few games being not STE compatible.

Only argument against Mega STE may be price and/or hard to find it.

 

Considering comparison with Amiga 500-1000/2000 compatibility problems: in Amiga case main problem is for sure CPU, what is changed to 68020/30 in later models. STE, Mega STE have same CPU, little more chips , and newer TOS versions, what is, as is said main problem - but is easy to override with SW .

And not to forget easy RAM expansion in STE, Mega STE - only that can justify little higher price.

[+CyranoJ]

What???

 

Time to buy stocks in End of the World companies.

 

I agree with CJ .

[Charlie_]

I'd like to add an Atari 16-bit machine to my collection for gaming.

 

I've never owned an ST (or related) system before, so I'm unsure of which would be the best model to buy for maximum compatibility.

 

I know that with the Amiga computers, many games created during the 500/1000/2000 era won't run on the later hardware. I'm unsure if the there are similar issues with later Atari ST models or not?

 

 

 

 

The best is the 4 Mb Mega STe with UlrtraSatan. They can be hard to find and expensive. The next best would be the 1040STe 4 Mb also with UltrSatan.

A 1040 STf is good to use with floppies because of the 1mb of ram and normally low TOS version. You'll do best to have some sort of rgb monitor no matter the model you get.

[Hellraiser]

If youre on a budget a 1040 STF/M is more than enough, it will play all ST games. There are only a handfull STe only games and NONE that are worth the extra cost. And if you have extra money to spend, use it to expand the STF/M with more memory and floppy emulator.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Hellraiser

[+CyranoJ]

You do realize it'll probably cost more to upgrade a 1040STF/M to 4mb than just buying a 1040STe in the first place, right?

 

If youre on a budget a 1040 STF/M is more than enough, it will play all ST games. There are only a handfull STe only games and NONE that are worth the extra cost. And if you have extra money to spend, use it to expand the STF/M with more memory and floppy emulator.

[Hellraiser]

You do realize it'll probably cost more to upgrade a 1040STF/M to 4mb than just buying a 1040STe in the first place, right?

 

That depends on where you are located and on how handy you are in upgrading a ST

Edited July 8, 2014 by Hellraiser

[+wood_jl]

There are lots of good suggestions here, but I think the 1040STf or 1040STfm would be the best bet for entry-level, because it's relatively available, relatively cheap, and relatively capable.

 

The Mega STe is great (I have 2 of em!) but they are quite rare, and quite expensive. Realistically, I only ever see one for sale once or twice a year, and it would $300 to $400 when it does.

 

The 1040STe is also great (I have 2 of em also!), and is a much more realistic suggestion. I only see a few of these for sale during the course of a year. They can be upgraded to 4MB by using old SIMMs, unlike the older 1040STf or 1040STfm. The 520STe is pretty much a 1040STe with some empty SIMM slots, and this makes the 520STe the only "520ST" that can be *easily* RAM-upgraded.

 

The 1040STf is the most common model (I think) of the "1040ST" series. The "f" stands for floppy drive (being built in) because the first-generation 520ST had an external drive. The 1040STf has 1MB RAM and a built-in double-sided floppy drive. You can get a lot of good gaming done with this combo, and play most games, because *extremely* few games ever took advantage of the enhancements that the 1040STe offered. Most significantly, this model will sell for a FRACTION of what a 1040STe will bring on Ebay. But the Meg and the DS drive are essential.

 

The 1040STfm is the same thing as the 1040STf, but with the addition of RF output (for connection to TV on channel 3) and also composite video output on the monitor jack that wasn't present on the 1040STf. However, composite (or RF) video really doesn't do justice to computers such as the Atari ST or the Amiga. I wouldn't go so far to say that it "sucks," but when you compare it to an RGB monitor (such as Atari SC1224) you might be inclined to think that. I've seen 1040STfm go for a little more money because it's a little more rare. I have one, but I never use the composite (or RF) output, anyway.

 

The 520STfm is just like a 1040ST, but with 1/2 the RAM on the motherboard. Most of these models have empty spaces (but NOT installed sockets) for the "missing" 512k, so if you're a skilled electronics guy, you may buy some RAM chips and upgrade with a lot of work. If you're like me and can't solder, I'd avoid one of these unless it was known to be upgraded, as many have. Furthermore, the early versions of the 520STfm had the dreaded SINGLE-SIDED (360k) floppy drive. You can upgrade that too, however. I do have a 520STfm that has been upgraded (not by me) to 1MB and has a double-sided floppy drive, so it's functionally a 1040STfm. However, you can't be sure that any 520STfm you see (on Ebay or wherever) has both a double-sided drive and a memory upgrade to 1MB, so I'd avoid this model unless you really are an electronics whiz.

 

On the other hand, every 1040ST you see has 1MB of RAM and double-sided drive, and is usually no more expensive. So I like that model, but make sure you get a monitor!

 

[ParanoidLittleMan]

If youre on a budget a 1040 STF/M is more than enough, it will play all ST games. There are only a handfull STe only games and NONE that are worth the extra cost. And if you have extra money to spend, use it to expand the STF/M with more memory and floppy emulator.

That's pretty inaccurate. There is about 100 games using STE enhanced features, then at least 40 STE only games. Expandng STF with more RAM is only for people experienced with soldering.

[Serious]

Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions and input!

 

I would get a 520ST or 1040STf. Just make sure you get one with a DSDD drive (720k) If you can get one with the RF modulator if you plan on using a TV set with it, otherwise get a nice RGB monitor for it.

 

Hmm. I'd definitely want composite output if I can get it. I may eventually get an RGB monitor, but I don't have a space on my desk for one right now.

 

The best is the 4 Mb Mega STe with UlrtraSatan. They can be hard to find and expensive. The next best would be the 1040STe 4 Mb also with UltrSatan.

A 1040 STf is good to use with floppies because of the 1mb of ram and normally low TOS version. You'll do best to have some sort of rgb monitor no matter the model you get.

 

Is UltraSatan an SD card reader? If so, I am guessing that it loads some kind of disk image format used for emulators?

 

Would I need a floppy drive if I have this device?

 

There are lots of good suggestions here, but I think the 1040STf or 1040STfm would be the best bet for entry-level, because it's relatively available, relatively cheap, and relatively capable.

 

 

I'm not looking to make a big investment at this point. I've never used an ST before, so I like the idea of going with a more entry-level system and maybe upgrading later if I like it.

 

I'd also prefer a compact system, as I tend to keep my systems in the box, and just take them out when I want to play them.

 

The 1040STfm is the same thing as the 1040STf, but with the addition of RF output (for connection to TV on channel 3) and also composite video output on the monitor jack that wasn't present on the 1040STf. However, composite (or RF) video really doesn't do justice to computers such as the Atari ST or the Amiga. I wouldn't go so far to say that it "sucks," but when you compare it to an RGB monitor (such as Atari SC1224) you might be inclined to think that. I've seen 1040STfm go for a little more money because it's a little more rare. I have one, but I never use the composite (or RF) output, anyway.

 

I'm familiar with RGB from my early Amiga days, and it is indeed beautiful.

However, I have a 36" CRT TV I used for most of my gaming, so composite output is what I'd be looking for.

I'd love to have a 36" RGB monitor, though!

The 520STfm is just like a 1040ST, but with 1/2 the RAM on the motherboard. Most of these models have empty spaces (but NOT installed sockets) for the "missing" 512k, so if you're a skilled electronics guy, you may buy some RAM chips and upgrade with a lot of work. If you're like me and can't solder, I'd avoid one of these unless it was known to be upgraded, as many have. Furthermore, the early versions of the 520STfm had the dreaded SINGLE-SIDED (360k) floppy drive. You can upgrade that too, however. I do have a 520STfm that has been upgraded (not by me) to 1MB and has a double-sided floppy drive, so it's functionally a 1040STfm. However, you can't be sure that any 520STfm you see (on Ebay or wherever) has both a double-sided drive and a memory upgrade to 1MB, so I'd avoid this model unless you really are an electronics whiz.

 

 

Any machine I'd attempt to solder on I'd probably destroy, so it sounds like the 1040STFM is the way to go for me (No soldering, composite output) and maybe a Mega STE later...

 

 

 

 

Ok, another question: Since the ST was more popular in Europe than the States, should I acquire a PAL machine for maximum compatibility? Or is PAL/NTSC compatibility not an issue on this platform?

 

(I already have a setup that can convert a PAL composite signal for display on an NTSC TV, which I used to play PAL 2600 and Videopac games.)

[+DarkLord]

If youre on a budget a 1040 STF/M is more than enough, it will play all ST games. There are only a handfull STe only games and NONE that are worth the extra cost. And if you have extra money to spend, use it to expand the STF/M with more memory and floppy emulator.

 

While I understand the part about being on a budget, it's been my experience that when someone uses STe enhanced software, games and apps, that

they rarely would agree with the above.

 

It's just that when I look at pricing, usually a person can take just a little bit longer to save up for the difference and be happier.

 

There are quite a few STe only and STe enhanced games out there, and I have to admit having a soft spot for "Euro" style demo's on the STe.

[Charlie_]

Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions and input!

 

 

Hmm. I'd definitely want composite output if I can get it. I may eventually get an RGB monitor, but I don't have a space on my desk for one right now.

 

 

Is UltraSatan an SD card reader? If so, I am guessing that it loads some kind of disk image format used for emulators?

 

Would I need a floppy drive if I have this device?

 

 

The MSTe / STe have rf built in, so they means composite from the monitor port. Also 1040STFm. So if no RGB monitor at 1st, you'll need one of those models.

 

The UltraSatan is a harddisk device that uses SD cards for storage. You will need a floopy drive to partition and install the driver. Just like a PC the floppy is A the harddisks start at C.

Also it requires Rainbow TOS or higher to work properly.

[Hellraiser]

That's pretty inaccurate. There is about 100 games using STE enhanced features, then at least 40 STE only games. Expandng STF with more RAM is only for people experienced with soldering.

Lets see, a mere 40 (or even a 100) is but a handfull of the +2500 ST games around, me thinks.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Hellraiser

[Charlie_]

Lets see, a mere 40 (or even a 100) is but a handfull of the +2500 ST games around, me thinks.

I agree about the games. However the STe easily gets to 4mb with simms. Also like an M model has RF out meaning composite at the monitor port.

TOS version in STe is also good for Satan/UltraSatan disks. I think all that makes it a no brainer. If you can get one, it is the one to get.

 

Still, if like the OP says, he doesn't want to invest too much a 1040STfm with working floppy drive is the fastest / easiest way to start playing ST games.

A Windows XP pc with floppy drive, floimg, and the Hang-Loose archive is all that is needed to try and enjoy the vast ST games library.

[Fletch]

i'm going to chime in and suggest either an STFM or an STE. OP appears to be based in the USA and standard STf machines do not do composite or RF. We also do not have SCART connections like those of you in Europe. Getting a STf without a monitor in North America is pretty much useless out of the box.

 

However, the USA STFM and STE models do have RF out. You can either use RF or build a cable to do composite fairly easily.

[+remowilliams]

I own a bunch of ST line equipment, up to the Falcon and would say the 1040STe would be one of the best bets.

 

That being said, this is what ST(E) gaming looks like for me now. And Amiga too for that matter

 

 

 

 

 

 

[English Invader]

An off the shelf 520 STfm will give you a decent game library (as long as you're content with disk games) and can be bought fairly cheaply.

 

If you want to go down the UltraSatan route, you need TOS 1.62 or 2.06 and 4MB RAM and, if you're spending that kind of money, you might as well have an STe.

 

My advice is to stick to emulation until you have a clear idea of what you want. Hatari has all the configurations you need (you can even set up a virtual hard drive for US ready games) for you to figure out the sort of games you want to play and the hardware they need.

Edited July 9, 2014 by English Invader

[GadgetUK]

What???

 

Time to buy stocks in End of the World companies.

 

LOL! You guys finally found some common ground! =) I think we've slipped into the Twilight Zone!

[+CyranoJ]

Yep, I'll be Shatner, he can be the gremlin on the wing

 

LOL! You guys finally found some common ground! =) I think we've slipped into the Twilight Zone!

[atarian63]

for what it's worth I use a mega 4 st not ste. works great but the best it that it does not take alot of space, get a pc kb adapter and use a mini keyboard and it's a real space save, has blitter and mine was upgraded to 16mhz. Much cheaper than an STE

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Huh, I thought that we always had at least one common thing: interest for Atari

 

What learned from this thread: retro computing starts to be expensive hobby .

[galax]

I use a 520STM, upgraded to 1MB and TOS 1.04, with no floppy and an external HxC floppy emulator for games. It's the cutest little ST package, if you ignore the foot warmer on the floor. Mega 4 STE for mostly 'serious' stuff