Could we do it all over?

[AAA177]

I'm sure many of you here are familiar with a YouTube showing photos of an 80s arcade with a song by Eddie Money playing over it, "I Wanna Go Back," it might be called. That got me thinking: could the Atari experience be done all over again?

 

I was thinking that it would be great if the Atari 2600 could be re-released. I know we've had the Flashback products, but why not release the Atari 2600 again along with all the games? Use the same cardboard stock for the boxes, reprint the catalogs on the same paper stock, etc. Target collectors and nostalgia folks like myself, and charge what you need to (I would imagine somewhere between $50 and $100 per game might be necessary).

 

As crazy an idea as this sounds, I wonder what kinds of marketing opportunities could be exploited by bringing the 2600 back. For instance, movies could be promoted with 2600 versions of the projects. What if "Wreck-It Ralph" had a 2600 version? Or "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?" They would cost nothing to make, and they might not make a lot of money, but it would be another prong in the promotional arsenal.

 

That could be the key to getting games based on licenses re-released. Let's say whoever released an Atari 2600 in 2014 wanted to get Activision to release "Ghostbusters" again. Obviously the studio that owns the license to that film would want a big advance to license it, and this would kill the business model. Instead, maybe the licensor could be convinced that announcing the "Ghostbusters" 2600 cart would be back in the marketplace exactly as it appeared all those years ago would help promote "Ghostbusters 3." Then, they might simply allow the cart to be released and collect royalties as they are generated with no need for a release.

 

There are so many reasons why this might be a success. The aforementioned Flashback success. The "E.T." landfill documentary. YouTube videos about the 2600 (Angry Nerd, etc.). The Halo 2600 thing. Et cetera.

 

Would something like this be possible at all?

[LeeJ07]

If this happened, I'd be the first in line to buy the new 2600. It would be awesome. Alas, I doubt it'll ever actually happen.

[jaybird3rd]

It's a nice dream, but most of the general public has long since moved away from the whole style and concept of gaming that companies like Atari and Coleco and Mattel Electronics represented, or are too young to have ever participated in it in the first place (IMHO, the loss is theirs). The added costs and complications of licensing, manufacturing, and product development are also more daunting than most people who haven't investigated them firsthand might realize.

[godzillajoe]

How would making Wreck It Ralph or Indiana Jones "cost nothing to make" ?

 

I work in software. But not for free.

 

Also, $50-100 for a game you can get on eBay for $4 is not a good business model.

Edited July 19, 2014 by godzillajoe

[+Gemintronic]

I've reacted grumpily to Bill Loguidice stating that we are not the target audience for today's toy manufacturers. He's right, though.

 

Step one is to support things like Kevtris and his FPGA board with a 2600 core. No modern company is going to support us with new games either. This will all be through us. We've got awesome assembly and batari BASIC programmers to further grow our own homebrew library.

[AAA177]

I agree, Jay, that something like this would be a very niche cottage industry (if cottage industry is the term I want). To joe's point, it's true that a $50 or even a $100 price point is definitely out of balance with ebay prices, but I think replicating, say, "Human Cannonball" with the same kind of box, artwork, and paper for the catalog/directions would cost something and would be necessary because of the small audience this would appeal to.

 

When I say it would cost nothing, I mean in relation to what games today cost to make. I assume since Atari 2600 has been around for so long and is so old that it must not cost a lot to make a game for it these days. What did it cost then?

 

I don't know the history of the recent fall and subsequent sale of the modern Atari company (it may have been reabsorbed by its parent company, but it was up for sale at one point, correct?), but it always surprised me that some company didn't buy the asset for purposes of doing something along the lines of what I'm talking about. A company like Toys R Us, for instance, in financial trouble though it is, maybe could have bought the company (I assume it was going for cheap) and tried to do this, exclusively at its stores. Just a thought experiment.

 

In many ways, this would be going a little beyond the Flashback release. To be honest, I'm surprised companies like Nintendo and Sega don't bring back their old systems and games. Licensing issues are tough, but there has to be a way around them.

[Andromeda Stardust]

While you bring up some fascinating points, unless you've got a Delorean to travel back in time to the early 80s, it ain't gonna happen.

 

Clone manufacturers like Hyperkin, Retrobit, Yobo have repeatedly said "No" when inquired about reproducing the Atari or other classic consoles. I guess their marketing teams thinks there's not enough public interest in Atari or other pre-crash consoles. I wish the Flashback people would team up with the clone manufacturers and produce something worhwhile with a cartridge slot.

 

But I agree with the above posters, that if new consoles and games come along, it will most likely be non-commercial homebrew efforts.

 

Brian Parker of RetroUSB is working on an HDMI NES, and if successful, it will set a precedent for future FPGA-based console projects to follow.

Edited July 19, 2014 by stardust4ever

[Crazy Climber]

Everything costs "something" to make, especially licensed products. The meetings and phone calls just to decide what color the boxes should be would cost more than the game could ever profit. I would say how terrible of an idea this topic is but I understand the power of a day dream when passionate for a hobby so dream on man, dream on

[+xucaen]

Remember, when Atari was new, video games were new. throughout all of human history.nothing like video games had ever existed. this sort of thing has happened all throughout the 20th century - refrigerator, automobile, airplanes, nuclear power, mobile phones... it' always exciting when something new comes along. we probably won't see anything in video games again, but when the next new thing comes along it will be exciting.

[Keatah]

It is easy to create something as you go along. Like Atari creating its original 8 cartridges, and then moving along and making more as time passed. 1 here, 4 there, another 2 this month..

 

Recreating everything exactly, including the newness and wonder, isn't going to be easy. And definitely not cost effective. It would be like collecting and ripping music for years, you got 10,000 tracks. It would be like writing in a journal, and collecting and taking photos along with it, you've got a one of a kind collection of information. Full of nuances and subtle-ism and details only recognized in-the-moment.

 

Now erase all that, trash the HDD.. And then try re-creating it. Ain't gonna be the same. Ain't gonna be fun. The MAGIC will not be there.

[Keatah]

In many ways, this would be going a little beyond the Flashback release. To be honest, I'm surprised companies like Nintendo and Sega don't bring back their old systems and games. Licensing issues are tough, but there has to be a way around them.

 

It's those asshole marketing "gurus". They're pig-headed and have more hot air than my mom's blow-up doll. Anything that's old is old and destined to be forgotten. Everything has to be new new new new today. New and disposable. Uggghhh

 

What I would like to see is a heavy-sixer or light-sixer built with the utmost quality materials and workmanship - with everything being hand-assembled except for the individual electronic components. Real polished and hardwood. Aerospace grade plastic composites. Mil-spec electronics, automotive grade materials in the controllers and parts that see user interaction. Gold plated connectors. Stainless steel RF shield. Precision switchbox with gold-plated relay and touch control. Modern switching power supply. Internal adjustments that can be accomplished with an RS-232 (or similar concept) interface to Hyperterminal. Or better yet, just make service mode available by a certain switch combination/movement. Digital video out, save state based on cartridge checksum, pause, wi-fi controllers (optional), SD card unobtrusive and in the back - for screenshots and savestates and ROMZ! Fiber optic output, Bluetooth stereo option. Internal Klipsch speakers. The ability to run in emulation mode. And much more!

 

Market it for $3,000 - $4,000 and you'll have something extraordinarily desirable.

[AtariLeaf]

 

It's those asshole marketing "gurus". They're pig-headed and have more hot air than my mom's blow-up doll.

 

Sorry, but I gotta ask - your mom actually had a blow up doll? They made those for women? Oh and it would seem using hot air in one would be problematic with the whole floating away issue.

[Cobra Commander]

Look around the market is still saturated with Atari consoles from thirty years ago.

[mos6507]

Mobile games are the closest analog to classic games. They still generate a ton of money and most of them don't have graphics more sophisticated than the 16-bit era. The difference is they are typically made by glorified hobbyists (until they get big of course) since the barrier to entry is so low now and the tools are so cushy.

Edited July 19, 2014 by mos6507

[Keatah]

Mobile games are the closest analog to classic games. They still generate a ton of money and most of them don't have graphics more sophisticated than the 16-bit era. The difference is they are typically made by glorified hobbyists (until they get big of course) since the barrier to entry is so low now and the tools are so cushy.

I also find mobile games to be totally without personality. They are twitch and clickfests - with their main intent being to serve ads and make you upgrade stuff.

 

Just about each and every game on the VCS had a personality and objective that was distinct from the next game. This was so because on certain days I wanted to play this, and on others it was that. On sick-days-off from school I had loads of VCS funnage! It was this way up until the market got overrun with cheap clones and filler material. Then I got disgusted.

 

Sorry, but I gotta ask - your mom actually had a blow up doll? They made those for women? Oh and it would seem using hot air in one would be problematic with the whole floating away issue.

I'm pretty sure she did. I never saw it float to the ceiling, probably from the weight of the mechanical attachments. Or maybe she tied it down.

[Tickled_Pink]

It's funny. I've been thinking the same thing over the past week or so. I've even contacted a plastics company in China to get a ballpark figure of how much it would cost to manufacture some Sinclair Spectrum cases to original specs.

 

While it may be a niche industry, so are the Flashback units. I have little interest in Flashback but I would have more interest in a 2600 re-release to original spec and build quality. There are many items that can be considered 'niche' but still sell well enough through specialist retailers to justify their manufacturing outlay. The problem with the Flashback units is that few people outside the classic gaming community know what they are. Stick an original, boxed, woody 6-switch 2600 on a shelf in an electrical store and you'll get people buying them because they once owned them. The 2600 would appeal more to today's casual gamers who used to own one in their youth.

 

Another problem with Flashback is the built-in games. If there was a re-release of the original games to support the re-released console, again as originally sold, then it would open up the prospect of people buying them to collect them. This is something you don't get with modern gaming.

 

I'd like to be able to release a series of retro systems that could be sold through stores like Maplin or Firebox, but for third party manufacturers licensing from the likes of Atari would probably be astronomical. It would have to be an Atari manufactured product or manufactured by a third party with deep pockets.

[Tickled_Pink]

 

It's those asshole marketing "gurus". They're pig-headed and have more hot air than my mom's blow-up doll. Anything that's old is old and destined to be forgotten. Everything has to be new new new new today. New and disposable. Uggghhh

 

What I would like to see is a heavy-sixer or light-sixer built with the utmost quality materials and workmanship - with everything being hand-assembled except for the individual electronic components. Real polished and hardwood. Aerospace grade plastic composites. Mil-spec electronics, automotive grade materials in the controllers and parts that see user interaction. Gold plated connectors. Stainless steel RF shield. Precision switchbox with gold-plated relay and touch control. Modern switching power supply. Internal adjustments that can be accomplished with an RS-232 (or similar concept) interface to Hyperterminal. Or better yet, just make service mode available by a certain switch combination/movement. Digital video out, save state based on cartridge checksum, pause, wi-fi controllers (optional), SD card unobtrusive and in the back - for screenshots and savestates and ROMZ! Fiber optic output, Bluetooth stereo option. Internal Klipsch speakers. The ability to run in emulation mode. And much more!

 

Market it for $3,000 - $4,000 and you'll have something extraordinarily desirable.

Nah. Too much. That's precisely why I don't like the Sinclair Spectrum bluetooth keyboard that Elite Systems are supposed to be launching. It's messing around with a classic. As part of my thought processes the other day I thought it would be cool to release the original Spectrum (I've never really liked the later models) either as a stand alone product as originally designed, even with the Horizons cassette and cassette lead, or bundled with a DivMMC. That is as far as anyone needs to go.

 

There would also be no emulation involved. As far as the 2600 goes, there are plenty of 6507s out there and there seems to be a fair quantity of TIAs available from sources other than Best and B&C. Certainly enough to put together a limited production run. There may be a problem with the Spectrum - plenty of Z80s and suitable RAM but not so sure about original ULAs.

[mos6507]

From a business standpoint, the cheap stuff you plug into a TV era has come and gone, hastened by the end of analog TV and the rise of smart-phones. That's why now you see stuff like those mini arcade cabinets where you slide an iphone or ipad into.

 

Rebuilding a 2600 would be like recreating a Wurlitzer juke-box. It's a real niche item, and since 2600s are still plentiful and (as far as I know, holding up surprisingly well over time) there's been little motivation to do it.

 

These days most people prefer digital media also, to eliminate clutter. Only a small niche likes the tactile quality of consoles and carts.

[godzillajoe]

Don't get me wrong, I'd be the first in line for a heavy sixer re-release with modern outputs or a C= 64 (and for the love of God, a QWERTY keyboard) with USB for both (roms and disk images) and built in 5 1/4 and 3 1/2" drives. I would over-pay for those.

[Rybags]

I think no.

 

Only a small percentage of people running modern-day 2600 incarnations even know or care whether it's some quasi-emulation kludge like NOAC or a realistic effort to reproduce the old hardware. Probably even less would care to have recreations of the old cartridges and of those that do, even fewer would pay much more than pre-loved examples that typically go for under 20 bucks.

 

Gotta be realistic. The modern day game that releases at $50-$90 has a team of sometimes 100+ working on it over months/years as opposed to the 1-several people that created the old-school games in weeks/months so at least the cost in their case is justified.

 

What would fly? An Atari that played all the old 8-bit games, ie 2600, 7800, computer/5200. In the modern day it is possible and in an authentic sense where the hardware functions are recreated on a low-level, not just some sandboxed emulation system.

 

Problem is - the chances of Atari or a large company producing it are pretty low. It'd still be a niche-market product and cost somewhat more to produce than the Flashbacks. And the biggest problem would be that it would be self-defeating, ie once you have this thing, it makes the concept of Flashback type boxes with a couple of dozen built-in games almost totally redundant, and the pre-existing software base becomes instant competition for any attempt to market brand new games.

[Ranthulfr]

I'm inclined to think there's no going back... The Atari 2600 was a product of it's time. Even if it were remade today it wouldn't be the same. Too much has changed in the world. Besides, I kind of like the way things are with the modern homebrew scene. That is the natural environment of the 2600 today.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Ranthulfr

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

I'm pretty sure she did. I never saw it float to the ceiling, probably from the weight of the mechanical attachments. Or maybe she tied it down.

Keatah, you certainly come from a colorful family. Your mom sounds like fun. I might have to look her up!

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

It's those asshole marketing "gurus". They're pig-headed and have more hot air than my mom's blow-up doll. Anything that's old is old and destined to be forgotten. Everything has to be new new new new today. New and disposable. Uggghhh

 

What I would like to see is a heavy-sixer or light-sixer built with the utmost quality materials and workmanship - with everything being hand-assembled except for the individual electronic components. Real polished and hardwood. Aerospace grade plastic composites. Mil-spec electronics, automotive grade materials in the controllers and parts that see user interaction. Gold plated connectors. Stainless steel RF shield. Precision switchbox with gold-plated relay and touch control. Modern switching power supply. Internal adjustments that can be accomplished with an RS-232 (or similar concept) interface to Hyperterminal. Or better yet, just make service mode available by a certain switch combination/movement. Digital video out, save state based on cartridge checksum, pause, wi-fi controllers (optional), SD card unobtrusive and in the back - for screenshots and savestates and ROMZ! Fiber optic output, Bluetooth stereo option. Internal Klipsch speakers. The ability to run in emulation mode. And much more!

 

Market it for $3,000 - $4,000 and you'll have something extraordinarily desirable.

Stuff like this exists, but just as many retro enthusiasts are disgusted with the idea as enjoy it. Take a look at the Analogue NES and Neo Geo systems. Basically taking the guts from retro consoles, refurbing and modding them, and shoving them into an over-engineered case with HDMI, and selling them to "hipster" gamers for $500+. No thanks, I'll just buy the original and refurb it myself with a disabled lockout and a new pin connector.

 

 

I was thinking that it would be great if the Atari 2600 could be re-released. I know we've had the Flashback products, but why not release the Atari 2600 again along with all the games? Use the same cardboard stock for the boxes, reprint the catalogs on the same paper stock, etc. Target collectors and nostalgia folks like myself, and charge what you need to (I would imagine somewhere between $50 and $100 per game might be necessary).

 

As crazy an idea as this sounds, I wonder what kinds of marketing opportunities could be exploited by bringing the 2600 back. For instance, movies could be promoted with 2600 versions of the projects. What if "Wreck-It Ralph" had a 2600 version? Or "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?" They would cost nothing to make, and they might not make a lot of money, but it would be another prong in the promotional arsenal.

 

That could be the key to getting games based on licenses re-released. Let's say whoever released an Atari 2600 in 2014 wanted to get Activision to release "Ghostbusters" again. Obviously the studio that owns the license to that film would want a big advance to license it, and this would kill the business model. Instead, maybe the licensor could be convinced that announcing the "Ghostbusters" 2600 cart would be back in the marketplace exactly as it appeared all those years ago would help promote "Ghostbusters 3." Then, they might simply allow the cart to be released and collect royalties as they are generated with no need for a release.

 

There are so many reasons why this might be a success. The aforementioned Flashback success. The "E.T." landfill documentary. YouTube videos about the 2600 (Angry Nerd, etc.). The Halo 2600 thing. Et cetera.

 

Would something like this be possible at all?

It is possible. The market has to be small though to stay under the radar of IP police. In fact, this very market you speak of already exists, and I'm not even counting the scads of clandistine repro/bootleg makers out there...

 

Atari:

http://atariage.com/store/

 

NES:

http://retrousb.com/

http://www.infiniteneslives.com/

 

SNES:

http://pikointeractive.com/

[bkrownd]

It's funny. I've been thinking the same thing over the past week or so. I've even contacted a plastics company in China to get a ballpark figure of how much it would cost to manufacture some Sinclair Spectrum cases to original specs.

 

This could be done cheaply at home with resin molds.

[bkrownd]

That got me thinking: could the Atari experience be done all over again?

 

In terms of hardware and game play I think emulation can be a very adequate experience, and far more flexible, provided we can get quality controllers. The games are even more frustrating when the available controllers aren't able to do the right things.