Special Teams Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Sounds like a sociopath http://atariage.com/forums/topic/217049-elektronites-blackmail-attempt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
128Kgames Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Yeah, I'm talking about that guy. He may be a talented programmer but his attitude turned off a lot of people. Whatever happened to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Whatever happened to him? Banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) Please ban him. There is no other option. He is poison.;r Nice theroy KS about his hard drive. Right now Aleins have taken over my fingers and are making me press these letters on my phone so it's not me saying to you your full of shit. Do you not understand this guy single handedly fucked the XM project? He screwed the project along time ago, because he was responsible for most of the feature creep that prolonged the development. I remember arguing about it years ago, maybe 5 years ago now. The XM went from being a simple expansion to upgrade audio, RAM and hiscore save to the overly ambitious 7800 personal computer because of him. Him named GROOVYBEE. I was shouted down of course when I questioned the need for all that. Think about that people. Curt accommodated one programmer here with extra features on the XM, like keyboard support, because he wanted to make text adventures. And then the guy screws everyone over after! I truly believe the 7800 XM would have been released many years ago if it wasn't for this, because it was a simpler device and was actually really close to being finished. Edited April 30, 2016 by Nuclear Pacman 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 So, I was wrong in my judgment to not make this post which was intended a few days ago, but seems more than apropos, if not completely obvious at this point. Absolutely, Curt’s health played a major factor in the delays of the XM project; however, a huge, if not even larger contributor to the XM module being delayed for so long is GroovyBee. Curt has been more than gracious in not blaming or trying to pass-the-buck to GroovyBee; nonetheless, GroovyBee has stated on a few occasions he was on again, then off again the project, claiming he is going to deliver on the programming tasks and never follows through. Granted, in hindsight Curt should have had a contract in place with Groovy, instead of a "gentleman’s agreement". Curt believed Groovy shared the same passion and commitment to the project; further fortified by his starting of several games specifically for the hardware to be included with the XM. Curt revised and then had to revert the XM design/layout, including incurring all costs involved, due to GroovyBee and his claims. The guy’s behavior towards Perry and Curt, considering what a condescending, unhelpful, and uncooperative ass he was with Bob, comes as no surprise or shock though. Just a shame so much time and resources lost and spent due to one person. Hope the Intellivision community has learned (is learning) from what happened to our 7800 folk. GroovyBee has provided enough damage already. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/217049-elektronites-blackmail-attempt I remember this well. One thing I take from that event is that Groovybee will speak up and defend himself if he has a defensible position. That is what makes his utter silence on the XM so telling. He clearly can't come up with a reasonable defense of his behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+frankodragon Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Wow. This guy has been holding his grudge since being asked if he was okay in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Wow. This guy has been holding his grudge since being asked if he was okay in 2013. That's a good demonstration of the "off" again...And then there's another example of the "on" again support from Groovy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lendorien Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) This information about Groovybee and how he's behaved is demoralizing. No-where have I ever seen it articulated what his exact problem was that made him go incommunicado. Perhaps there was an issue or a disagreement. I couldn't say. I will say that it does not speak well of his character that he refuses to communicate with people (who stepped in where he left off) trying to pick up where he left off. That said, he owes no-one his work. It's a dick move, but if he wrote the code, it belongs to him and he doesn't have any obligation to give it away. It might be the "gentlemanly" thing to do, but he has a right not to. Still, given that he was part of the project and so instrumental to it, him just blowing Curt off and acting this way hurts not only Curt, but the community as a whole. Meanwhile, Curt has gotten no end of vitriol from some members of the community regarding the vaporware status of the project, while a big part of the problem has been the behavior of someone who both Curt and project backers were relying on to see it to completion. I think that's the saddest thing about this whole situation - that Curt has had to feel all of the community's angst and criticism by himself, whena good share of the blame should go to a guy who just up and quit and left Curt high and dry. That Curt has not publicly said a word about Groovybee's behavior shows a real level of class on his part. Edited April 30, 2016 by Lendorien 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) He disrespected Bob? That's news to me. Although, I might understand why. This forum might give a little to much love too Bob while not acknowledging the other 7800 programmers as much. Edited April 30, 2016 by Bakasama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 There's no real telling exactly what's going on or what happened. Curt's not saying, Groovybee's not saying. All we know for sure is the new crew is on it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+splendidnut Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) I agree with what @Lendorien said. Rather than arguing about what has happened and who didn't do what... I wish people would focus their energy on supporting the people involved with this project or even potentially help with completing this project. @tep392: Thank you for stepping up and helping out with this project. Please continue to keep us updated as the project progresses... I wish you well. Edited April 30, 2016 by splendidnut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 He disrespected Bob? That's news to me. Although, I might understand why. This forum might give a little to much love too Bob while not acknowledging the other 7800 programmers as much. I see what you mean, but it's not worth catering to fragile egos, or even acknowledging them. Bob put out a disproportionate amount of quality homebrews, so it's only natural we hear a lot about it. It hasn't stopped people from saying nice things about other homebrews, so it's only problem if a coder feels he needs to own all of the attention. Homebrew is not a zero-sum game. Bottom line is that Bob's body of work has attracted people to the 7800. That benefits all of us 7800 coders. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 . That said, he owes no-one his work. It's a dick move, but if he wrote the code, it belongs to him and he doesn't have any obligation to give it away. It might be the "gentlemanly" thing to do, but he has a right not to. I couldn't disagree more. Whether or not he owns the code is ONLY meaningful in court, which is somewhere this should NEVER go. When he VOLUNTEERED to work on the BIOS and CPLD portions of the project he made a commitment to the group. Understanding that this is a hobby, I don't blame someone for dropping out if there are real life issues that prevent completion of the work. But he has an ethical obligation to provide his work in progress back to the project for it to be continued on. His holding the files hostage is not just a dick move, it's totally unethical. He's wasted many hours of Curts time due to all of this and hurt the community greatly. I also want to point out that the reason I brought this up was not to start arguments but to let people know what is going on behind the scene so they don't automatically start blaming Curt when this project is further delay'd. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I see what you mean, but it's not worth catering to fragile egos, or even acknowledging them. Bob put out a disproportionate amount of quality homebrews, so it's only natural we hear a lot about it. It hasn't stopped people from saying nice things about other homebrews, so it's only problem if a coder feels he needs to own all of the attention. Homebrew is not a zero-sum game. Bottom line is that Bob's body of work has attracted people to the 7800. That benefits all of us 7800 coders. Bob's awesome Pacman collection and the anniversary multicart was what made me spring to buy a 7800. That said, I did somewhat have fun with GroovyBee's aka Mark Ball's Wasp and Worm homebrews. I kinda wish there was more though. Trying to be serious here for a moment. Gotta understand some people are just dicks sometimes for whatever reason. I don't think an outright ban is a good idea though in case he has a change of heart or decides to come forward to the community and explain himself. And taking him to court over some piece of code won't do anything without a written contract. Do realize it's just a hobby. I too have several unfinished projects, and plans for more that I haven't even started. But I never collaborated with anyone or took monies so I have no obligation to finish anything. Sometimes things don't work out as planned and in the event money exchanges hands before goods materialize, as happened here, it is a bad situation to be in for everyone involved. This is why many forums now have rules in place preventing money from exchanging hands unless an item is ready to ship. It doesn't stop people from launching a Kickstarter or taking preorders through an external site though. I still remain skeptical of this project, but animosity, and round robin blaming of individuals really doesn't make the situation any better. I personally feel that the XM is a bit obsoleted when we have Batari's H2 with it's built in scorecard, CPUWIZ RAM PCBs, and drop in Hokey replacement chips. Anybody wanting to use a keyboard can just purchase an XEGS and have instant support from 8-bit original games and homebrews. I have no investment whether this project succeeds or fails, just here for the drama and popcorn... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lendorien Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) I couldn't disagree more. Whether or not he owns the code is ONLY meaningful in court, which is somewhere this should NEVER go. When he VOLUNTEERED to work on the BIOS and CPLD portions of the project he made a commitment to the group. Understanding that this is a hobby, I don't blame someone for dropping out if there are real life issues that prevent completion of the work. But he has an ethical obligation to provide his work in progress back to the project for it to be continued on. His holding the files hostage is not just a dick move, it's totally unethical. He's wasted many hours of Curts time due to all of this and hurt the community greatly. I also want to point out that the reason I brought this up was not to start arguments but to let people know what is going on behind the scene so they don't automatically start blaming Curt when this project is further delay'd. I'll agree that it's unethical given that he made a commitment when he agreed to help with the project. Refusing to share the work after doing so much and then leaving others in the lurch is an unethical thing to do, and a dick move. But he has a right to do it. He wasn't being paid. In no way was I saying that such behavior was right. If you read the rest of the post, I basically say it wasn't. There are a lot of things in the world that are permissable and in our rights to do, but are detestable actions when we do them. This situation is among them. Even so, minor semantic differences aside, I think we agree on the basic thrust of things. You have more invested than I do since you're actually doing the work and have to deal with the real consequences of his behavior, so I'll defer to you. And I really don't see any arguing going on here! Edited April 30, 2016 by Lendorien 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atarifever Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 He disrespected Bob? That's news to me. Although, I might understand why. This forum might give a little to much love too Bob while not acknowledging the other 7800 programmers as much. It is impossible for this forum to give Bob "a little too much love.". He did more quality work for the 7800 than anyone else ever involved with it, either originally or after. I love my homebrews, controllers, protos, etc. from other sources too, but Bob's contribution dwarfs them all. That isn't an opinion. It isn't a judgement about quality of the work of others It is a fact that Bob made a massive, high quality, and varied contribution to this platform that exceeds the quantity of good work put out by anyone else. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+frankodragon Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Maybe the reason Bob's taking a hiatus from programming is because of some stubborn other developer whom had the "keys" to getting it to work on actual hardware? I''d be steamed too to have a killer app and it have it delayed indefinite because of some childish behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 It is impossible for this forum to give Bob "a little too much love." Sweet would not agree: youtube.com/watch?v=tXJ4TZSXtzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXJ4TZSXtzc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) I remember this well. One thing I take from that event is that Groovybee will speak up and defend himself if he has a defensible position. That is what makes his utter silence on the XM so telling. He clearly can't come up with a reasonable defense of his behavior. I dunno. GroovyBee just seems to have checked out of Atariage in general. I haven't seen him on here in months ... possibly more than a year. Doesn't participate in forums anymore, doesn't seem to PM. For disclosure, I'm finding it hard to pile on GroovyBee. My experience with him has always been great. I've tested his stuff. I've had good interactions with him. I was pretty pumped about the games he was working on I hope this sorts itself out. Edited May 3, 2016 by DracIsBack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 He disrespected Bob? That's news to me. Although, I might understand why. This forum might give a little to much love too Bob while not acknowledging the other 7800 programmers as much. Agree that other programmers should be shown more love. i've liked a lot of games from other folks - including GroovyBee for that matter. That said, the amount of games Bob contributed speaks for itself. Ditto for the approach he typically took, which was "I've been working on this for a while - it's not feature complete and ready for testing ... and here's a ROM!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I dunno. GroovyBee just seems to have checked out of Atariage in general. I haven't seen him on here in months ... possibly more than a year. Doesn't participate in forums anymore, doesn't seem to PM. A quick look shows recent postings below from GroovyBee. Here are a few of them: April 29, 2016 April 28, 2016 March 24, 2016 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 My experience with him has always been great. I've tested his stuff. I've had good interactions with him. I was pretty pumped about the games he was working on I felt the exact same way before I started working on the BIOS. I have ton's of PM's with GB, helping me with DK XM and other projects. I was bowled over when he stopped communicating with me. I even sent a PM to him asking if he was mad at me, but of course that went unanswered. I really don't understand what came over him. I just wish he would explain himself if he had a good reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 A quick look shows recent postings below from GroovyBee. Here are a few of them: April 29, 2016 April 28, 2016 March 24, 2016 You're right. He does seem less active than before though. And he definitely seems to have 'checked out' of the 7800 scene for a long time now. Bummer. I liked a lot of the games he had in the pipe and ideas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I felt the exact same way before I started working on the BIOS. I have ton's of PM's with GB, helping me with DK XM and other projects. I was bowled over when he stopped communicating with me. I even sent a PM to him asking if he was mad at me, but of course that went unanswered. I really don't understand what came over him. I just wish he would explain himself if he had a good reason for it. I'm not saying this to justify, defend or excuse ... but I do find that sometimes homebrewers have to deal with a lot of crap. At the root of what they do is a love for the console they're working on, not because they're getting paid a 150K salary to make Atari projects. They donate unbelievable amounts of time because it's something they love to do. Despite this, I've seen homebewers get raked over the coals - why are you charging this much? Why hasn't there been an updated version of this game? When will this be done? Why is it not done now? Why are you making this? That idea sucks ... you shouldn't make it! Your programming skills suck - I'm better etc. I've also seen it become draining for homebrewers where they simply burn out, drop the system, abandon projects etc. Sometimes its real life taking over. Sometimes its burning out on a project. Sometimes its the crap they take in forums. As I said above, Curt and GroovyBee took a lot of crap for this project, even at its inception before pre-orders. I mean, geez, there were working prototypes of systems at shows and roms of some of the games around and people were calling the hardware and software photoshop and trying to rally philosophically against even making something like an XM. That's got to be draining after a while. Again, I don't know why GroovyBee stopped communicating and have no involvement with a lot of the history. But I do know he made a lot more programs (at varying stages of completion) than he is often given credit for 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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