+Ripdubski Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I would like to see an Atari 800XL Flashback unit, small with a condensed keyboard similar to netbooks, maybe a cart slot, and built in sio to usb, selectable atari os roms snd memory configs up to 128k, throw in 40 to 50 top games, svideo out, and 4 joystick ports so mule could be played ( which should be one of the included ones ). And style it after the 800xl. Yeah, i get that its basically the whole computer minus the expansion port. But it would be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 4 joystick ports conflict with xl/xe ram banking schemes, but you could still have 128K or more Axlon-banked ram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ripdubski Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Selectable, like 48K 800, 64K 800XL, or 128K 800XL (no XE though it doesn't really matter). With the XL selections, 2 sticks disabled. Built ins would select the configuration needed to run properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 good idea! Like an Atari 800 with Incognito all rolled into a SOC board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isonium Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Raspberry PI can already emulate all the Atari 8 bit computers. Add some extra code to use the GPIO port as joystick ports, SIO, and even a cartridge slot and you would be in business. I have considered it, but funds are limited right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Although it is cool, I'm not interested in this kind of projects. For me (and that is personal) the fun is the real hardware. I like to connect modern solutions like MyIDE/IDE+ to my vintage hardware, but the real thing must always be involved. I'm not interested in emulators or modern hardware, although the ideas are cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 With the Atari 2600 and Sega Genesis Flashback consoles, I do not see why they could not put several hundred games in those things. I know there are still concerns about licensing and copyright issues after all this time. However most of those companies either went out of business, or won't even be concerned. Could promote it as a 5200 flashback as well, and include the 5200 games that got ported to the 8-bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmercer Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Although it is cool, I'm not interested in this kind of projects. For me (and that is personal) the fun is the real hardware. I like to connect modern solutions like MyIDE/IDE+ to my vintage hardware, but the real thing must always be involved. I'm not interested in emulators or modern hardware, although the ideas are cool. Seconded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foft Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 How about a real 1050, two Indus GTs and an XF551 with an FPGA XL. Isn't that the equivalent Is there any easy of licensing a pack of Atari XL games. Like Amiga forever or C64 forever? I wonder how expensive it is to manufacture a case and keyboard these days... 100k$ - 200k$? Any ideas what we'd need to invest? Apparently getting a license to use 'Atari' will be expensive too from what I've heard. Realistically to go into this I think we'd need 10 (working in decent job) people to make the amount reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 My biggest wish would be that 'regular Flashback buyers' (the people who have fond memories of playing games on their atari, and with the wish to play them again) would buy a 2nd hand real atari 8bit again. That would increase the community of users of the real thing. That is what the Atari scene actually need. The more 'real' users, the better. With all these dedicated consoles, this is not going to happen. I hope it will happen one day... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foft Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The trouble is the real hardware is getting rare sadly. Unless you know of anywhere to buy it... How many Atari 8-bits are for sale globally on ebay at a time? Maybe 10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I would like to see an Atari 800XL Flashback unit, small with a condensed keyboard similar to netbooks, maybe a cart slot, and built in sio to usb, selectable atari os roms snd memory configs up to 128k, throw in 40 to 50 top games, svideo out, and 4 joystick ports so mule could be played ( which should be one of the included ones ). And style it after the 800xl. Yeah, i get that its basically the whole computer minus the expansion port. But it would be fun. That's along the lines of what we had in mind for one of our next Flashback units before one of the unknowing licensing guys decided to license out the Flashback line to AtGames. We're still looking at something along those lines under Syzygy, though minus the games. With the Atari 2600 and Sega Genesis Flashback consoles, I do not see why they could not put several hundred games in those things. I know there are still concerns about licensing and copyright issues after all this time. However most of those companies either went out of business, or won't even be concerned. Unfortunately, that's simply not how these companies licensing or producing operate. IP is taken very seriously at the corporate level and they won't put anything on they don't think they have rights to. My biggest wish would be that 'regular Flashback buyers' (the people who have fond memories of playing games on their atari, and with the wish to play them again) would buy a 2nd hand real atari 8bit again. That would increase the community of users of the real thing. That is what the Atari scene actually need. The more 'real' users, the better. With all these dedicated consoles, this is not going to happen. I hope it will happen one day... The average person these Flashbacks are targeted to have zero clue that Atari did anything other than the 2600. You're looking at a very small hobby market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ripdubski Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Partially whats already been said. Hardware is aging and replacements will get nothing but harder to find or more expensive or both. I was thinking along the lines of portability, not as a replacement. Something I could lug to a hotel, eyc and use with sort of the flavor of the real deal rather than an emulator on a laptop -or- as a device left connected to the game console tv ( which for me is not in the same room as the computers). Nothing over the top, just basic functions as described. The sio usb bridge would enable mass storage for those that want it. Or why not have sio to SD or some other flash media, but the sio to usb gives more ability like printing. It would just be another cutesy neat toy. And it probably would be a very small market indeed. Time and money might be better spent bring a 1400XL clone to market. I'd buy either or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 The average person these Flashbacks are targeted to have zero clue that Atari did anything other than the 2600. You're looking at a very small hobby market. Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmercer Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 How about a real 1050, two Indus GTs and an XF551 with an FPGA XL. Isn't that the equivalent Is there any easy of licensing a pack of Atari XL games. Like Amiga forever or C64 forever? I wonder how expensive it is to manufacture a case and keyboard these days... 100k$ - 200k$? Any ideas what we'd need to invest? Someone would design it in some cad/3d software, have it printed out by someone with a 3D printer with a large enough printing area footprint or print it out via a service like http://www.shapeways.com/ on one of their nice printers. Get it in your hands and sand any imperfections to get it exactly how you want it then give the prototype to a manufacturer to make injection molds from. For the top and bottom mold probably looking at 3k USD. From there you can probably get a relatively low MOQ... less than 100 units but the more you have made the cheaper it's going to get per unit. Without licensing software, I bet you could get a production unit down to 200$ retail cost and still turn a nice profit for as little as a thousand units... probably less, remember Jeri Ellsworth home-brewed the amiga on a fpga chip and then designed the C64DTV chip for Ironstone... she also helped design the C-One which they made and sold themselves, and is not unlike what is being proposed here... and that was all pre-crowdfunding. We already see you can do system on a chip so depending on who was designing it (their level of experience) and the desire towards something that works or something that works and resembles the vintage (repairable, upgradeable) really I bet you could get retail to 100$ to 300$ depending on which path you go... Someone, or a group, could easily make a tidy sum on indiegogo for it (I'd do it as a flexible funding so you get money regardless) and probably cover most, if not all, of the development costs. Edit: I just asked her to pop by if she finds a few seconds of free time (she's super busy right now) so hopefully she can pop in and give a quick ballpark on cost anyway. I wouldn't hold our breaths though, she's seriously REALLY busy with castAR right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Jeri has her hands full with CastAR... -Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmercer Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 The trouble is the real hardware is getting rare sadly. Unless you know of anywhere to buy it... How many Atari 8-bits are for sale globally on ebay at a time? Maybe 10? ----------------------- I've bought 4 (800xl) in the past month, 1 reconditioned from BE, 1 from amazon, the other two 'as is' all 3 work and less than 375$ total for all 3 (shipped), 1 still had original box and dust cover. I've bought 2 c64'x (both with Commodore 1702's that work beautifuly) for less than 75$ each shipped (bought them mainly for the 1702's) and a third 1702 for $58 shipped that also works great (but is missing the control knob door). I've bought two functional 1050's for less than 120 total shipped via seperate sales (one also had an 850 with it, both had 2 cables and both had power supplies). The stuff is out there as long as you know where to look, I'm not done buying though so I won't be sharing my source, I've already got a competitor or two haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmercer Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Jeri has her hands full with CastAR... -Thom ----- Aye, that's why I asked her to pop by for a second if she gets it to ballpark us an idea of the cost of the electronics. It should literally take her the time it does to read a paragrahp or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jugac64 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 If you want real-hardware equivalent experience, you can use Foft’s excellent Atari XL FPGA core with any of the boards it has been ported: MCC-216, Mist, FPGA Arcade or Turbo Chameleon 64. Personally I am not using any more my real C64 and I am using it only through FPGA emulation. It is hard to describe how different is using FPGA from PC emulation (I don’t like PC emu either), it is like using the real thing (you will only notice some differences when you find compability issues), but timing, fast response, no delays on joystick use, etc. is similar to the real retro-computer. The MCC-216 is a cheap option with nice C64 emulation for playing games but weak for watching demos and very limited features, and my favorite is the more expensive Turbo Chameleon 64 that has wonderful C64 compatibility and a lot of features support. Both of them support very well Foft’s Atari XL core, with PS2 keyboard and DB-9 retro joysticks connectivity (the Chameleon needs and optional accessory for the joystick). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 If you want real-hardware equivalent experience, you can use Foft’s excellent Atari XL FPGA core with any of the boards it has been ported: MCC-216, Mist, FPGA Arcade or Turbo Chameleon 64. Personally I am not using any more my real C64 and I am using it only through FPGA emulation. It is hard to describe how different is using FPGA from PC emulation (I don’t like PC emu either), it is like using the real thing (you will only notice some differences when you find compability issues), but timing, fast response, no delays on joystick use, etc. is similar to the real retro-computer. The MCC-216 is a cheap option with nice C64 emulation for playing games but weak for watching demos and very limited features, and my favorite is the more expensive Turbo Chameleon 64 that has wonderful C64 compatibility and a lot of features support. Both of them support very well Foft’s Atari XL core, with PS2 keyboard and DB-9 retro joysticks connectivity (the Chameleon needs and optional accessory for the joystick). I wasn't aware of an Atari XL core for the MCC 216. Actually going to their website reveals a new product - MCC - TV The Atari 800 core is up there too. I guess I missed that. Is the XL core you are referring to different than the 800 core on their website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jugac64 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Hi wongojack! It is the same Atari XL core, but Foft is publishing here the latest releases: http://www.scrameta.net/autobuild/ Including the MCC-216 version. You can follow the Atari XL core development on this topic: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/213827-potential-new-hardware/ Edited September 4, 2014 by jugac64 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Like I posted in a similar 5200 thread, I doubt an 8-bit Flashback would come to reality. 4 joystick ports - the PIA would be simulated anyway so no reason an extended mode with extra IO bits couldn't be included. Of course a modded OS would be needed and the scheme would only work on games that used the shadow registers but that's most of them. Maybe in the future when FPGAs are cheap and large enough to fit everything on a single one we might see some multi-system device. Think 2600, 7800 and computer rolled into one. But still someone would have to develop the cores and it's still questionable if it'd be commercially viable. I'm sure people want what I do - that is something that's configurable and can interface to existing peripherals. The thing with that though can count against it in that they only ever sell one per customer, future releases become somewhat redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jugac64 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlowingGhoul Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) If you want real-hardware equivalent experience, you can use Foft’s excellent Atari XL FPGA core with any of the boards it has been ported: MCC-216, Mist, FPGA Arcade or Turbo Chameleon 64. Personally I am not using any more my real C64 and I am using it only through FPGA emulation. It is hard to describe how different is using FPGA from PC emulation (I don’t like PC emu either), it is like using the real thing (you will only notice some differences when you find compability issues), but timing, fast response, no delays on joystick use, etc. is similar to the real retro-computer. The MCC-216 is a cheap option with nice C64 emulation for playing games but weak for watching demos and very limited features, and my favorite is the more expensive Turbo Chameleon 64 that has wonderful C64 compatibility and a lot of features support. Both of them support very well Foft’s Atari XL core, with PS2 keyboard and DB-9 retro joysticks connectivity (the Chameleon needs and optional accessory for the joystick). I looked for a Chameleon 64 for a long time. Luckily, they're back in production for now... How do you find the Atari 800 core, I know the C64 and Minimigs are supposed to be excellent. I'm wondering if it's good enough to be my main 8-bit. It would be very convenient with 50/60 hz VGA out and ps/2 keyboard support and only a couple watts of power usage. (it would be really great if simulated artifacting could be programmed in the core. Right now you have to convert to composite to see artifact colors and you lose video quality.). Edited September 5, 2014 by GlowingGhoul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jugac64 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) How do you find the Atari 800 core, I know the C64 and Minimigs are supposed to be excellent. I'm wondering if it's good enough to be my main 8-bit. It would be very convenient with 50/60 hz VGA out and ps/2 keyboard support and only a couple watts of power usage. (it would be really great if simulated artifacting could be programmed in the core. Right now you have to convert to composite to see artifact colors and you lose video quality.). Hi GlowingGhoul, I find it very good! but I am not an Atari expert so I can’t really compare it with the real hardware. From what I have tested, it seems that the core has very good compatibility with games and demos.Also Foft has been working very actively on it, and he is also very receptive to hear about issues or suggestions. Please check this file to read the specs of the last release of the core (20140825): http://www.scrameta.net/autobuild/20140825/instructions.txt And here you can see a compatibility list of games that have been tested by NML32: http://goo.gl/MvUDfY Edited September 5, 2014 by jugac64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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