ballyalley Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 The C64 had Supermon 64 published in 1983 in Compute! (see the following link:) http://www.atarimagazines.com/compute/issue32/082_1_SUPERMON_64.php Was there ever an Atari type-in monitor published in one of the American Atari magazines? I'm curious because I'm browsing/reading "Compute!'s Guide to Machine Language" and I see that there is a type-in ML monitor for the PET, Vic-20, and C64 (it's actually a republication of Supermon 64, above), but Atari users were told that they had to have the "Assembler Editor" cart. Which is fine, except that in 1983 wasn't cartridge still something like $80-$100? How come there was no cheap/free ML monitor for Atari users? Or was there one that was in common use at that time (that, maybe, you could get through a user group or BBS)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji-Man Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Well there are several, but one comes to mind, Mac65/DDT. A very quick assembler and monitor/debugging tool built into 1 cartridge. Others will chime in with a few more suggestions, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 DDT was also available on floppy through APX. http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-ddt-dunion-s-debugging-tool_s20459.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) There were loads of what would be considered now PD ones, can't remember names but they are out there, personally I used OmnimonXL for the rubbish I did. Not sure how many if any were type in but I'd guess there must have been at least one. Edited September 19, 2014 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtrooper of Death Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 In the Netherlands i had a book, called "MAchinetaal voor de Atari" , that not only contained a course (lessons) to learn machine language, but in the end of the book, the was a listing (to type in) that contained a machine language monitor. I used it for my 1st steps in machine language. It was not an assembler, but a monitor. Debuging could be a pain in the butt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Check out this recent thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/229073-what-other-stand-alone-monitors-are-there-for-the-a8/?hl=%2Bmonitor&do=findComment&comment=3060282 In my research, I believe that I found just two type-ins. Analog #39 -- Feb 1986 Analog #51 -- Feb 1987 IIRC, the first takes the place of the Basic cart (so debugging ML routines is more difficult). The second can be used with Basic, so would be preferable for ML routines. Look in this thread for links to the Analog ATR's: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/192915-analog-antic-disk-atr-images/ -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) The C64 had Supermon 64 published in 1983 in Compute! (see the following link:) http://www.atarimagazines.com/compute/issue32/082_1_SUPERMON_64.php Was there ever an Atari type-in monitor published in one of the American Atari magazines? I'm curious because I'm browsing/reading "Compute!'s Guide to Machine Language" and I see that there is a type-in ML monitor for the PET, Vic-20, and C64 (it's actually a republication of Supermon 64, above), but Atari users were told that they had to have the "Assembler Editor" cart. Which is fine, except that in 1983 wasn't cartridge still something like $80-$100? How come there was no cheap/free ML monitor for Atari users? Or was there one that was in common use at that time (that, maybe, you could get through a user group or BBS)? ANALOG #39 had 'Debug+'. It, like all ANALOG ML programs, was 'created' by typing in a large BASIC listing of Hex numbers that when run would create a ML program. Here's the command list. eighteen commands, which are listed below: Key Function * Address Set D Display Toggle Q Quit DEBUG+, go to DOS G Go at address T Trace program P Print Disassembly E Erase Memory C Change 1 byte of RAM N Change Register Value R Display Registers B Set/Reset Break Point S Save a binary file L Load a binary file F Find a string in memory H High Speed Display Dec/Hex, Hex/Dec convert Scroll up in memory Scroll down in memory CNTR-ESC to leave prog. that is running. Break point eg. B1,4000 to set break point at $4000. Single step T,O,Option (from my notes, I'm not sure what this means, except you 'T'race, 'O'ne step, Option. See the magazine article. DEBUGPL.zip Edited September 19, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballyalley Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 In my research, I believe that I found just two type-ins. Analog #39 -- Feb 1986 ["Debug," by Bryan Schappel] Analog #51 -- Feb 1987 ["The BBK Monitor," by Brian Schappel and Brarry Kolbe] It looks like the BBK Monitor is what I'm talking about (although the time of release is four years later than I'd hoped)-- at least it is a type-in program. Thanks for pointing it out! I looked it up in the magazine. The listing size seems to be on par with the ML monitors listed in the Compute! book. I unARCed the Disk image of the ANALOG disk (which I've had floating around on my hard drive since, probably, the late 1990s). Bob Puff's good 'ole UNARC comes to my rescue again to open the disk. BBK Monitor is far more than a monitor utility, it's also an assembler and disassembler! The magazine mentions that the source code for BBK Monitor is on the monthly ANALOG disk "or on the ANALOG Computing Atari User's Group on Delphi." The source code is not on the ARCed disk image that I have, although the M65 source code for "Slither," that month's ML game, is on the disk. Does anyone have a copy of the ANALOG Computing #51 (February 1987) disk that include's BBK Monitor's source code (it's probably called "BBKMON.M65" or "BBKMON.ASM"). Some of these other ML monitor suggestions didn't take into account that I was looking for a free, or close-to-free, program that was available in 1983 (when the Compute! book was published). Excellent assemblers were suggested, but they were not free back in 1983-- some didn't even exist at that time. DDT from APX sounds like it was a good deal (I didn't know it was from 1982!)-- how much was it (I looked for an APX price list-- or even just the catalogs- and I couldn't find one). I'm curious what ML monitor someone on a tight budget (a student, young kid, or a teenager) who picked up "Compute!'s First Book of Machine Language" might use to program in machine language on the Atari. There must have been something in 1983 that was freely-distributable-- the computer had already been in use for over three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Check out this recent thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/229073-what-other-stand-alone-monitors-are-there-for-the-a8/?hl=%2Bmonitor&do=findComment&comment=3060282 In my research, I believe that I found just two type-ins. Analog #39 -- Feb 1986 Analog #51 -- Feb 1987 IIRC, the first takes the place of the Basic cart (so debugging ML routines is more difficult). The second can be used with Basic, so would be preferable for ML routines. Look in this thread for links to the Analog ATR's: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/192915-analog-antic-disk-atr-images/ -Larry Right, Debug+ loads at $A100 to $C0FF and uses $BE00 to $C0FF as screen memory. So lots of ML programs would conflict with it. You can tell the load and run address of a ML program with my 'TRAK3.BAS' TRAK3.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) (cut) Does anyone have a copy of the ANALOG Computing #51 (February 1987) disk that include's BBK Monitor's source code (it's probably called "BBKMON.M65" or "BBKMON.ASM"). (cut) Here's what I found. BBKMON is five .M65 files to load in MAC65. Also there are the same .src files in ASCII. And the BBKMON.EXE executable. It is best to read the article in ANALOG #51. It isn't intuitive to use. You load it, it puts itself in memory and returns you to BASIC. You type 'DOS' to enter the monitor. Type 'Q' to quit to DOS or 'X' to remove BBKMON and exit to DOS. An example at the BBK> prompt. D$A000 would disassemble from $A000. You can hit CNTRL 1 to pause and BREAK, I guess to stop disassembly. BBKMON.zip Edited September 19, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) (cut) Does anyone have a copy of the ANALOG Computing #51 (February 1987) disk that include's BBK Monitor's source code (it's probably called "BBKMON.M65" or "BBKMON.ASM"). (cut) Here's what I found. BBKMON is five .M65 files to load in MAC65. Also there are the same .src files in ASCII. And the BBKMON.EXE executable. It is best to read the article in ANALOG #51. It isn't intuitive to use. You load it, it puts itself in memory and returns you to BASIC. You type 'DOS' to enter the monitor. Type 'Q' to quit to DOS or 'X' to remove BBKMON and exit to DOS. An example at the BBK> prompt. D$A000 would disassemble from $A000. You can hit CNTRL 1 to pause and BREAK, I guess to stop disassembly. BBKMON loads at $2000-$30AE and runs at $202C, so some binary loads will work for BBKMON and others for DEBUGPLUS. Debug+ loads at $A100-$B833 and uses screen memory to $C0FF. I don't know what BBKMON uses for screen. probably up to $3400 or so. Maybe BBKMON screen stays in the $2000-$30AE area. Edited September 20, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) ANALOG #39 had 'Debug+'. It, like all ANALOG ML programs, was 'created' by typing in a large BASIC listing of Hex numbers that when run would create a ML program. I did up a reformatted, PDF, bookmarked manual for this using the Analog magazine article: Edited September 20, 2014 by MrFish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballyalley Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 I did up a reformatted, PDF, bookmarked manual for this using the Analog magazine article: Wow! What made you do that? I'll print it out and give the program a whirl. Thus far, Debug+ still seems to be the best that the magazines or the public domain had to offer for monitors for the Atari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Wow! What made you do that? Eh, just on a whim. Might give it a spin myself in the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) Source files (heavily commented) and a bootable floppy: Debug+ Sources.zip Debug+.atr Edited September 21, 2014 by MrFish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) Fixed some errors, did some additional formatting, and changed the cover graphics. Debug+ - Manual.pdf Edited September 21, 2014 by MrFish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) Interesting... Bryan Schappel has a company and website -- RTS Software, which includes BBK Enterprises -- and on his site there are sections devoted to all the Atari 8-bit and ST software he's written (including Debug+ and BBKMon -- both with instructions), and the Atari software written by one of his colleagues as well. RTS Software -> Atari 8-Bit So it seems I've wasted some time by using the flat text-out from the Analog magazine PDF OCR, as I could have at least gotten the formatted text from his site with a lot of the work already done. Eh, maybe I'll send him a copy... Edited September 21, 2014 by MrFish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) BBKMON loads at $2000-$30AE and runs at $202C, so some binary loads will work for BBKMON and others for DEBUGPLUS. Debug+ loads at $A100-$B833 and uses screen memory to $C0FF. I don't know what BBKMON uses for screen. probably up to $3400 or so. Maybe BBKMON screen stays in the $2000-$30AE area. My old notes about Debug+ say you can relocate it to a different load and run address with Disk Wizard II. So, if you have a conflicting ML program, do that. I think that just means edit the first six bytes and the last six bytes. Actually the first six bytes after the $FF $FF. and the last two bytes for the RUN address. No, that would be the four bytes after the $FF $FF I think. That may not work, actually........ Edited September 21, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 That's the trouble with those type in's, unless you knew where other software used in mem you could very well trash part of the code by running it, that's why I loved OmnimonXL, the only annoying thing was it was so easy to check for, a quick look at $C000 (iirc) and bingo it was found. Brill for cheats and in those days I never found a game that changed the cheat location with every run (forget what the term for those is). Now you have to trace back to what wrote to that location and disassemble the code and hope I understand it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) That's the trouble with those type in's, unless you knew where other software used in mem you could very well trash part of the code by running it... Doesn't really have anything to do with it being a type-in. Any debugger that loads into RAM is going to have the potential for conflicting with code that needs to be debugged. For instance DDT -- that comes with Mac/65 -- has the annoying feature of stepping on Page 6, which is such a common area for small machine language programs. So the only way you can debug code needing to use that area of memory is to use Mac/65's option of assembling to an offset. Edited September 21, 2014 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Yup, sorry, I didn't mean exclusively type in's, just anything loaded in.. Never used MAC65, for some reason known only to me (and even then I'm not sure why) I used the built in assembler in Omnimon to do any coding, so limited, I guess it was my way of justifying the cash I'd spent on OmnimonXL (must dig out my manual). Twas like Xmas the day it arrived... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 There's also HBug from Analog, April 1984 issue. HBug.atr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I stumbled upon a shortcoming of Debug+ in the Reader Comments section of an issue following the one where Debug+ appeared. I'll add this information to the documentation. You can read about it below: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 BTW, does anybody know if the APX disk "Hex-A-Bug" has been dumped yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 BTW, does anybody know if the APX disk "Hex-A-Bug" has been dumped yet? Nope. B&C has it for $14.99. I'm about to place an order from them for a bunch of APX programs to dump and scan but I want to get all the $7.99 ones first since I can get more of them. If there is a particular one you want I can put it on the list to send him. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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