My two old computers are dead...

[82-T/A]

So, I just opened up both my old 8088 Kay Pro PC-10 and my Leading Edge 386.

 

Both were computers that I put into storage when I moved for my job a few years ago. I swear I'm not a pack rat, but I kept these two machines because I've had them for so many years. The 8088 I got in 1984 when I was a kid, and the 386 we got in 1990.

 

 

Anyway, I hooked them both up, and they are toast. Neither one of them boots up.

 

I wasn't too surprised about the 8088, but very disappointed, but really shocked that the 386 was also dead. Then I saw that the battery on the motherboard more or less oozed acid out which ate away some of the contacts (resistors, or whatever those things are and the keyboard BIOS). So I'm at a loss here... do I just throw these computers away that I've had for literally decades? The 8088 is massive, so... understandably I might seriously consider that even though the computer means a lot to me. But the 386... how the hell could this have happened? It almost seems to me like these boxes were stored in exceptionally high heat storage, even though I was told they were in A/C.

 

I'm really kind of grouchy about this... not end of the world grouchy, but just incredibly frustrated because I got all excited after my last post and wanted to start playing them.

 

 

I haven't fully disassembled the 8088, but the 386 I completely tore down... it's in an area where there isn't a whole lot going on on the bread board... but I definitely don't have the skill to install tracer wires or fix this stuff. Is there a place that'll repair this board? Would any of you guys be willing to take this on for a price?

 

 

 

really bummed right now...

 

[82-T/A]

Man....

[Kyle22]

put the hard drive in another computer and try to recover the data, or use a USB hard drive adapter. If they are IDE, that's easy, but MFM/RLL drives might be a problem. Good luck!

 

-K

[82-T/A]

put the hard drive in another computer and try to recover the data, or use a USB hard drive adapter. If they are IDE, that's easy, but MFM/RLL drives might be a problem. Good luck!

 

-K

 

 

Yeah, the 386 has an IDE drive, an ST3144A (still remember that by heart). The KayPro has MFM/RLL though... ugh.

 

Man, I am SOOOOOO grounchy about it right now. But at the same time, it feels oddly liberating.

 

I guess, quite honestly, I'll probably just get rid of my Leading Edge... I mean, it's a 386... it's not like I NEED it for anything.

 

But I'll probably keep the KayPro case and build a computer in it... would be kind of cool to have a super-powerful computer in an old Kay Pro case. It would require some modification of course to get everything to fit properly... but I can certainly do it.

 

Damn... still, soooo grouchy. Everything is in the original box too...

[Kyle22]

Try to find Kaypro system boot disks, replace the hard drive, and re-load... There is probably a cheap IDE drive adapter for Kaypro, so that should make it easier.

 

After you get it up and running with CP/M, be sure to install the Z-System or NZ-COM.

 

It's not a lost cause, parts and software are available.

 

-K

[Omega-TI]

I dunno if I should bother stating the obvious, but after you replaced the batteries did you reset the CMOS with the proper configuration and hard drive settings? That could be why it did not boot. If you did, I apologize.

[Kyle22]

Sorry about the previous post, I should have read that you have an 8088 Kaypro. You need a MS-DOS disk for that. CP/M, Z-System and NZ-COM only apply to Z-80 processor Kaypros.

[Omega-TI]

 

I guess, quite honestly, I'll probably just get rid of my Leading Edge... I mean, it's a 386... it's not like I NEED it for anything.

 

 

You could always get a copy of an old software program like Wildcat! and run a full-time telnet accessible BBS on it.

[82-T/A]

Try to find Kaypro system boot disks, replace the hard drive, and re-load... There is probably a cheap IDE drive adapter for Kaypro, so that should make it easier.

 

After you get it up and running with CP/M, be sure to install the Z-System or NZ-COM.

 

It's not a lost cause, parts and software are available.

 

-K

 

I dunno if I should bother stating the obvious, but after you replaced the batteries did you reset the CMOS with the proper configuration and hard drive settings? That could be why it did not boot. If you did, I apologize.

 

 

Thanks guys, but that's not the problem. The physical hardware, IE: the motherboards are both fried. It's not that they don't boot... they don't even get to the point where they even show anything on the screen. It doesn't even load the BIOS. The battery basically oozed out acid and ate away part of the motherboard on the Leading Edge, so the computer doesn't actually even get to the BIOS. It doesn't say "Phoenix Rom BIOS" or any of that other stuff, the video never sends a signal.

 

The KayPro was obviously in extreme humidity, as the entire computer case inside has rusted.

 

Both were working before they went into storage.

[Rockin' Kat]

got any pictures of the damage? If it is what you say, things like this can be repaired by jumpering severed connections with wires and replacing destroyed components if it's not too severe. If you can't do it, you might be able to find someone here who could.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Rockin' Kat

[82-T/A]

got any pictures of the damage? If it is what you say, things like this can be repaired by jumpering severed connections with wires and replacing destroyed components if it's not too severe. If you can't do it, you might be able to find someone here who could.

 

 

Yeah, it looks like the one on the KayPro isn't as bad as I thought... although that's subjective. The seemingly tiny battery apparently leaked all over the board it was soldered to, and dumped all of its acid on the bottom of the case, which completely rusted the lower half of the case. I've actually never seen anything like this before. The entire case, on the inside is totally rusted out... it looks like an old car from the rust belt. There's no rust on the underside, and it didn't work it's way through, so nothing a wire-brush and some paint can't take care of.

 

As for the mother board, I didn't even know it had a battery on it. From as long as I can remember, the computer never kept time, so I just assumed it didn't have a CMOS battery since, well... it doesn't have a CMOS, just a ROM BIOS.

 

As I'm not an electrical engineer, this will sound ridiculous. But... whatever those hot-dog looking things are that have different colored strips going across them.... there were three of them, and they were completely disintegrated from the acid. Otherwise, the majority of the KayPro is actually on it's cards. One full-length card houses the bus controller, 8088 NEC V20 processor, and all the other crap, and another full-length card holds the ram, floppy drive controller, etc. The "motherboard' if you will, is basically nine 8-bit card slots, with a keyboard BIOS, and hook-ups for the power supply... literally nothing more (except the battery). So... if I can figure out what kind of "hot dog" things are supposed to go there, I CAN repair that one.

 

 

The Leading Edge... that's going to need some tracer wire...

[Osgeld]

not that it helps now, more of a warning to others, but storage for electronics is death

 

time will get them tween batteries and electrolytic caps, but in both, powering them up keeps the caps up to par, and you will notice a battery crapping out if you use it once in a while

 

it really sucks about the K I hope you get someone to get it up and going, but extensive damage repair is usually a labor of love mixed with necessity

 

if you really want a 386 I am getting my 386 laptop back up to snuff this weekend to give away in the marketplace for the price of postage, its a SL 20mhz (so a slow SX) with 4 meg of ram, being a laptop there's little to no expansion in terms of sound cards and joysticks (though if you really dig you can find a 16 bit pcmcia sound card out there so you can run wolf3d in a shrunk window with dogs barking lol)

[82-T/A]

not that it helps now, more of a warning to others, but storage for electronics is death

 

time will get them tween batteries and electrolytic caps, but in both, powering them up keeps the caps up to par, and you will notice a battery crapping out if you use it once in a while

 

it really sucks about the K I hope you get someone to get it up and going, but extensive damage repair is usually a labor of love mixed with necessity

 

if you really want a 386 I am getting my 386 laptop back up to snuff this weekend to give away in the marketplace for the price of postage, its a SL 20mhz (so a slow SX) with 4 meg of ram, being a laptop there's little to no expansion in terms of sound cards and joysticks (though if you really dig you can find a 16 bit pcmcia sound card out there so you can run wolf3d in a shrunk window with dogs barking lol)

 

 

 

Thanks Osgeld, I appreciate the advice, and the offer. Here I go sounding like a pack-rat... well, I already have a 386 under my desk in the office that I use for playing old-ass games (on the rare occasion I have time). It's a DELL 386 SX-25, and it's a small form factor (very small form factor). Since I'm sure the Seagate drive from the Leading Edge is probably still good, I'm just going to copy everything off of it, and then move it to the Dell 386. And then... well, I guess I'm just going to junk the Leading Edge. I don't really see any real point in keeping it honestly...

 

 

But I guess I am really still pissed about the KayPro.

 

I don't know if I mentioned it here yet, but I had another look at it. The inside floor of the case is really, really bad, I'm going to have to get a wire-brush attachment (like I use to strip paint off body panels before I paint a car) just to get all the scale off. The mother board isn't all that bad off. Thing with the Kay Pro is all the stuff is on the cards. I didn't even know I had a battery soldered to the motherboard for that matter... but anyway, it looks like all I need are three of those hot-dog things with the stripes... only thing is, I assume the different color strips means that they are different resistance or ohms or whatever (clearly, I don't know what I'm talking about). Three of them right where the battery was, basically disintegrated, so I don't know what to get. But if I can find schematics, and know what to order, I definitely think I can fix the KayPro.

[Osgeld]

yes little bean shaped objects with stripes on them are typically resistors (they made capacitors with color codes on them but I think that went the way of the dodo sometime in the 60's and even then it was little squares or discs with dots on them) the stripes represent resistance which is measured in ohms

 

you will need at least a bill of materials to tell you that R12 or whatever = 4.2K or whatever, schematic would tell you as well but harder to read as its the circuit blueprint

 

it could also represent an inductor for noise filtering, just gotta see whats ate up and what it was replacement "passive" parts are inexpensive and easily obtained

Edited September 20, 2014 by Osgeld

[Keatah]

I am expert at repairing multi-layer boards to about 6 planes. Drills, epoxy, re-lamination, new planes, jumpers, all that schtuff. Perhaps you can post pictures and we can do a preliminary diagnosis. Unless you got holes through and through and acid that's permeated along the planes it should be an easy fix.

 

I agree with capacitors going bad if they sit around. Powering them up from time to time goes a long way to preventing degradation and keeps the chemistry healthy.

[82-T/A]

Thanks guys, so here is what I'm looking at:

 

First one is the 8088. Where you see the two yellow dots, that's where the battery was connected. There's a slot for TWO batteries (oddly enough) and one battery was attached diagonally between them like that.

 

Where you see the red dots is where those resistors were attached. There was literally one in each spot as best as I can tell (I think), but there was so much crud and rust and acid caked on there, I couldn't see. I'm amazed at how well it actually cleaned up.

 

 

 

 

Second one is my 386. You can see the blue battery, it's still on there. It leaked out and damaged the resistors below it, and the one to the right. Essentially, anywhere you see the blue fuzz...

 

 

 

 

 

Also, sorry for the bad pictures, the camera just isn't focusing well on the components, these two pictures were the best out of like 20!

[Osgeld]

for cleanup to see what is ate up bad, get some rubbing alchol (higher % the better, less water) and hit up the hardware store / farm store, ask for acid brushes, usually in welding and or plubming supplies

 

its a crappy metal tube with a horsehair brush sticking out of it for 50 cents to a dollar, they are 100% ESD safe and cheap (local store here sells me a box of them for like 10 cents a brush so 10 bucks + tax just to move inventory)

Edited September 20, 2014 by Osgeld

[Keatah]

Wow that doesn't look bad at all. I would start with finishing cleanup. Don't forget in and around and under the chips and sockets to the best of your ability. A pro-level job would entail removing and cleaning them.

 

Many times I like to reflow corroded connections like these with solder and flux. Literally bringing contaminants to the surface for easy brush-away. And you get a fresh solder connection. Makes for great "inspectability" too, and clearly marks what you've worked on. At worst I think you'll need to reflow and resolder some traces and connections but I can't exactly tell from the pictures.

 

I've used vinegar as a gentle acid to eat away corrosion. I've also used baking soda and water 2:1. Great for spot cleaning a small area like so. I've even used Coke from a medicine dropper to eat the corrosion. There's lots of things you can do!

[Keatah]

can you show a pic of the kaypro system? I need to get my bearings on the pc-10..

[82-T/A]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice... yeah, it surprisingly cleaned up well. The only thing is, I definitely do not have the tools for solder-points THAT small. I have a normal soldering iron, and just installing the A/V mod on my Atari 2600 was tortue to get right.

 

 

This is what the completed system looks like (this is what I have)

 

[The Usotsuki]

So it looks like...an IBM 5170, more or less.

[82-T/A]

So, I'm still really bummed, but I think I'm going to get rid of the Leading Edge. I don't NEED it, honestly... but I think I'm going to keep the KayPro... that was my first.

[jaybird3rd]

If you choose to get rid of it, I'd recommend listing it in the Marketplace, even in non-working condition. I'm sure there are vintage computer enthusiasts here who would be interested in repairing it.