The Video Game Years discusses the 7800

[treismac]

The Video Game Years series is in 1986, and the latest installment discusses the 7800. It is featured right off the bat, so you don't have to wade through the rest of the video to see it. What are your thoughts?

Edited November 20, 2014 by treismac

[Gregory DG]

Very clinical discussion about it. They talked more about Jack Tramiel than the system itself.

 

I'm surprised they couldn't find even one good thing to say about the system. They compared Double Dragon, but none of the other comparable 7800 vs. NES games where the 7800 comes out on top. (Joust, Ballblazer, Commando, Ikari, Tower Toppler, Xevious, etc.) And they failed to mention that the 7800 does everything without the aid of extra MMC chips like the NES uses.

 

Finally, I was SHOCKED that Ian and Pat liked the controller when most everyone else hates it. What planet are these two on? No mention of the 7800 pad either.

 

Proof that you shouldn't expect much from Nintendo fanboys when doing a retrospective of an Atari product.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Gregory DG

[VectorGamer]

I probably would have been disappointed with the 7800 if I bought one in the 80s. Honestly, I didn't even know it existed as I had an NES at the time.

 

Now, the 7800 is my second favorite console largely because of the high quality home brews that have been released. I like the fact that I can play most (not all as they said in the video) of the 2600 carts without using a separate adapter.

 

I disagree with the favorable comments about the Proline joysticks. I think they are horrible and I use either the CX-40, Wico Command Control or an Epyx controller when playing the 7800. Of course, if I'm playing Rampage I have to use the Prolines.

[PacManPlus]

Holy Crap! That was my port of Moon Cresta they showed at 2:41!

[Trebor]

Their statement of the 7800 being ‘behind the curve’ due to it being released a full-blown two years later (1986) than it was supposed to be (1984) is a little dumbfounded, especially when compared to the NES. The NES is just the 1983 released Famicom with a different exterior – which places the full blown 1986 release of that console to 3 years 'behind the curve'.

The actual problems the 7800 system truly has is (agreed) the base (TIA) sound, which could/would have been overcome if the second main issue was addressed – which is, proper support. The NES was given everything by means of first and third party support along with tremendous additional cartridge hardware which improved the base system's capabilities considerably and in some cases (I.E. MMC5) incredibly. The 7800 had next to nothing provided with everything being taken away from it.

No mention or even ‘background sighting’ of Midnight Mutants, Alien Brigade, Ninja Golf, BasketBrawl…some of the best games (especially) graphically for the system and a focus on one of the most poorly handled Arcade ports – Double Dragon. Guess (the better than NES) Commando would have been too much of a curve ball to their review of the system too.

[Rhomaios]

I agree with Trebor. It's hard to find intelligent and interesting Youtube series.

 

I was thinking about Rampage, and in another thread back in 2009 here, lots of folks said the Master System was the best version. However, I also hear that it's rather glitchy and has poor collision detection compared to the 7800. Can anyone weigh in on that? I'd like to get 7800 where I can, but if I can play a superior port on the MS, why not that instead?

[Trebor]

I was thinking about Rampage, and in another thread back in 2009 here, lots of folks said the Master System was the best version. However, I also hear that it's rather glitchy and has poor collision detection compared to the 7800. Can anyone weigh in on that? I'd like to get 7800 where I can, but if I can play a superior port on the MS, why not that instead?

 

Short: Master System is the best version.

 

Long: The alleged poor collision detection and glitches of the SMS version - I rarely experience. Diagonal punching of buildings is a frequent must in Rampage, where the original SMS pad doesn't work the best for it though, so I can see where some may take issue with that. Regardless, it is an excellent port and even enjoy that it contains background music 'improvement' over the original Arcade version.

 

The original 7800 version of Rampage is nowhere near as bad as say, Double Dragon. Truly, it plays quite well; however, looks unnecessarily ugly, IMHO. Hopefully, when/if the hack-update to it is finished - it will then be a much more worthy contender to the SMS (graphically).

 

So, even though the 7800 gameplay is arguably as good (perhaps even slightly better) than the SMS, it falls short graphically way more than it should, unfortunately.

[Rhomaios]

 

Short: Master System is the best version.

 

Long: The alleged 'poor' collision detection and glitches of the SMS version - I rarely experience. Diagonal punching of buildings is a frequent must in Rampage, where the original SMS pad doesn't work the best for it though, so I can see where some may take issue with that. Regardless, it is an excellent port and even enjoy that it contains background music 'improvement' over the original Arcade version.

 

The original 7800 version of Rampage is nowhere near as bad as say, Double Dragon. Truly, it plays quite well; however, looks unnecessarily ugly, IMHO. Hopefully, when/if the hack-update to it is finished - it will then be a much more worthy contender to the SMS (graphically).

 

So, even though the 7800 gameplay is arguably as good (perhaps even slightly better) than the SMS, it falls short graphically way more than it should, unfortunately.

 

Well, that seals the deal for me. Definitely going to get the hack/update if/when it is released! I can wait.

[Gabriel]

And I thought the last installment of this I watched was condescending and banal. They were just getting started on pushing that bar.

[Shawn]

Guys let's be honest, The 7800 lost for a reason. The NES was the winner and had over 700 more games released for it in it's retail life versus the 7800. I love the 7800 but it never was a worthy competitor to the NES, not even close.

[AtariBrian]

Guys let's be honest, The 7800 lost for a reason. The NES was the winner and had over 700 more games released for it in it's retail life versus the 7800. I love the 7800 but it never was a worthy competitor to the NES, not even close.

Couldn't of said it any better myself .

[bennybingo]

Guys let's be honest, The 7800 lost for a reason. The NES was the winner and had over 700 more games released for it in it's retail life versus the 7800. I love the 7800 but it never was a worthy competitor to the NES, not even close.

Agreed…but it doesn't change the fact that the review/comparison was 100% slanted.

 

IMHO, YouTube reviews are not what you would call true journalism…not often at least. It's akin to the current incarnation of what filmmakers call a "documentary" nowadays. Facts are only included if they support the filmmaker's personal bias…otherwise, they are left out completely.

[Gregory DG]

Impartiality is hard to find in true "journalism" thesedays and IMPOSSIBLE to find in a YouTube video. You just have to know the backgrounds of who you watching in advance.

 

Does anyone really expect someone who calls himself "the NES Punk" to be unbiased? Hmmm...

[Shawn]

Agreed…but it doesn't change the fact that the review/comparison was 100% slanted.

 

IMHO, YouTube reviews are not what you would call true journalism…not often at least. It's akin to the current incarnation of what filmmakers call a "documentary" nowadays. Facts are only included if they support the filmmaker's personal bias…otherwise, they are left out completely.

 

Oh for sure. I'm not saying Nintendo fanoboys don't exaggerate and unfairly shit on atari when they talk about it.

[BillyHW]

Does anyone else find the rapid-fire talking-heads form of documentary insufferable?

[78001987]

Guys let's be honest, The 7800 lost for a reason. The NES was the winner and had over 700 more games released for it in it's retail life versus the 7800. I love the 7800 but it never was a worthy competitor to the NES, not even close.

the reason was that Nintendo signed nearly all of the 3rd party developers to exclusivity deals that May or may not have been entirely legal. They basically shut Atari and Sega out of the 3rd party market from 1986 until about 1990. The NES system itself wasn't "better" than the 7800 or the SMS in terms of ability. It was just better supported - by way of shady strong arm negotiation tactics.

[high voltage]

the reason was that Nintendo signed nearly all of the 3rd party developers to exclusivity deals that May or may not have been entirely legal. They basically shut Atari and Sega out of the 3rd party market from 1986 until about 1990. The NES system itself wasn't "better" than the 7800 or the SMS in terms of ability. It was just better supported - by way of shady strong arm negotiation tactics.

Couldn't have said it any better myself . Nintendo are criminals.

Edited November 24, 2014 by high voltage

[high voltage]

...

Edited November 24, 2014 by high voltage

[Lost Dragon]

The lack of Impartiality in what passes for "journalism" these days (well, past few years to be honest) is the reason i've simply stopped buying 99% of the magazines i once did and those i have in my collection, are being sorted, majority either given away or put out for recycling.

 

I cringe when i see an Edge referece to the Jaguar for example saying it was a twin 32 Bit system, or a stumble across any multi-format publication with Nintendo promotions in as i know somewhere within, there'll be a feature on the NES and how it saved the UK gaming industry.But the rewrite of history is'nt restricted to Nintendo, far from it....

 

Various Atari related Articles would have the reader believe the 7800 was more than a match for the Master System hardware wise and the Jaguar could of been a real contender as support was still strong for the ST and Lynx and ALL ATARI needed was more machines avaiable at launch in UK....

 

 

Still hear from SEGA fans how it was purely lack of E.A support that killed off the Dreamcast...

[Lost Dragon]

Basically, pick a format and look through my once huge collection of magazines and you'd of stumbled across some shockingly inaccurate articles, news stories that were made up (1 thing you soon find looking into Lost Games is just how much crap the Press put out), a re-write of history or an article written where there's simply no attempt made at understanding the subject material.

 

Gamestm's Conversion Catastrophe's often make for bizzare reading, to see the 2600 version singled out when the conversion was asking far too much from the system (Tempest, Rampage, Double Dragon etc) just beggars belief, as rather than ask f it was ever really a good idea to try and convert the coin-op to the primitive hardware, they instead ridicule it.

 

 

 

But no, i do not want to pay for any magazine these days where a writer will inflate sales figures or make unrealistic claims of what hardware was capable of, or how a system arrived far too late, delivered far too little, yet saved an entire industry.

[Lost Dragon]

Also, on subject of what passes for jurnolism in magazines these past few years, something that really bugs me is when an article is given to someone who clearly was'nt aware of actual events from the time they are reporting on.

I've seen both RG and Gamestm slag off the MS system version of Golden Axe, making it out to be an utter disaster, slagged by press at the time etc, described as a catastrophe, yet UK press (Mean Machines, C+VG, Zero etc loved it, understood system limitations etc).

Strider II (US Gold) was not, as RG put it, universally panned by all who reviewed it.Zero, Raze, C+VG etc loved the ST version, Sinclair press loved the ZX Spectrum version, hell even a few C64 mags took to the C64 version.

Game itself is rather poor, thats true, but i'd expect a look back article to honestly reflect how games were treated by press at the time.Quick search online would throw up review scores in an instant.

If your not familar with the era/subject material, perhaps your not best placed to comment.

[high voltage]

Hey, you're back, great.

[+pboland]

I like the video game years video's, but that did one thing really wrong IMHO. As soon as they hit 1985 they talked about NES as if it was a household name that year and it was NOT. 1985 was only the test market year. They acted as if everybody ran out and bought an NES in 1985. NES didn't see full release until 1986 and it didn't become the huge hit that everybody remembers until 1987. Around late 1986 Atari system and Sega systems all sold very well, but people forget that. I remember in late 1986 (through early 1987) all three systems (7800, SMS, NES) were very well represented in our local department stores and just about had equal spacing on the retail shelves. If wasn't until about late 87 (about X-mas) that the scales really tipped to the NES.

 

To this day I hear stories of people telling me how they remember getting their NES back in 1985 and I just have to laugh because unless you were near NYC in 1985 (or knew someone who got it for you), you didn't get your hands on an NES at that time. Since Video Game Years covered the NES in 1985, they should have covered the 7800 in 1984.

[BillyHW]

I like the video game years video's, but that did one thing really wrong IMHO. As soon as they hit 1985 they talked about NES as if it was a household name that year and it was NOT. 1985 was only the test market year. They acted as if everybody ran out and bought an NES in 1985. NES didn't see full release until 1986 and it didn't become the huge hit that everybody remembers until 1987. Around late 1986 Atari system and Sega systems all sold very well, but people forget that. I remember in late 1986 (through early 1987) all three systems (7800, SMS, NES) were very well represented in our local department stores and just about had equal spacing on the retail shelves. If wasn't until about late 87 (about X-mas) that the scales really tipped to the NES.

 

To this day I hear stories of people telling me how they remember getting their NES back in 1985 and I just have to laugh because unless you were near NYC in 1985 (or knew someone who got it for you), you didn't get your hands on an NES at that time. Since Video Game Years covered the NES in 1985, they should have covered the 7800 in 1984.

 

Does anyone remember when the light gun changed from grey to orange?

[Austin]

 

Does anyone remember when the light gun changed from grey to orange?

 

It was a few years after release. I believe I got my system in '87 or '88 and it came with the grey gun, so the orange one wouldn't have come until after.