Raiden Jaguar vs PC Engine

[danny_galaga]

Played Raiden on the PC Engine at a friends place last night. Also played it on MAME. I must say the Jag version is superior to the PC Engine version. The only thing the PC Engine version had over the jag was it had the original sound track (luxury of CD rom I guess). This is how much bias there is against the Jag- my friend has played the Jag version, but thought the PC Engine version was better! The PC Engine is an awesome little machine, but Raiden is not a stand out title for it in my opinion.

 

To me the only failing of the Jag version (other than not having a console friendly fire system) is that it would have been great to have a vertical mode. But to be fair, that might not have been something on the radar at the time. I know they did it with some PS1 games, but that would have been a few years later.

[Austin]

I can see where some will prefer the PCE one. It is faster and feels more like the arcade one. The Jag one runs at a slower pace, the controls aren't as responsive and it doesn't quite "feel" as much like Raiden (play the PS1 version then the Jag one to see what I mean). Myself personally, those issues aside I feel Jag Raiden is the best home version next to the PS1 version. It looks good, doesn't have the absurd flicker of the PCE one, has no start-back mode, and I dig the new tunes made for the game. I just wish the tunes and sound effects were beefier. A casualty of being an early release.

[Willard]

I did not like the lack of an autofire on the Jaguar version.

 

With the FM Towns Marty version you cannot resume where you died unless you are in 2P mode so it uses a checkpoint system.

 

Really annoying that some of the better versions are diminished by developer choices that could have easily been corrected.

[Austin]

Really annoying that some of the better versions are diminished by developer choices that could have easily been corrected.

It's a matter of perspective. The Japanese arcade version used the checkpoint system which likely explains why most ports followed this format. Even the PS1 Japan Raiden Project has the startback system, while it was changed for the US release to match the US arcade version.

[Willard]

I'd just like the choice, nothing wrong with giving people options. there are intentional variances between the arcade versions so they know that people have preferences one way or another. Maybe I overreact because it's a gamebreaker to me.

 

I did not know that the differences were between the Japanese arcade version and the versions of other regions, somewhere I read it was just the revision (i.e. later ones transitioned to continuous play) so that's interesting. I can't really find any information with a quick minute on google.

 

Still play the Marty version on 2P because it's one of the few damn times both controllers get used- with the shmups and the fighters

Edited December 20, 2014 by Willard

[Austin]

I don't think you are going to find anything via a web search, it's just that start back modes are extremely common in Japanese shmups from the '80s and early '90s. The more you play the more you begin to see this. This is pure speculation, but I wonder if it was such a long running trend because shooters were a lot more popular there. They may have seen recovering from a checkpoint with no power ups a skillful endeavor.

 

On a side note, I'd love to own a Marty some day. There are so many classic arcade games from that time period that were never done proper justice, or at least had not been ported as well as they were to the Marty.

[NeoGeoNinja]

I can see where some will prefer the PCE one. It is faster and feels more like the arcade one. The Jag one runs at a slower pace, the controls aren't as responsive and it doesn't quite "feel" as much like Raiden (play the PS1 version then the Jag one to see what I mean).

 

The PCE version is definitely more faithful and, imo, more enjoyable overall than the Jaguar version. Graphical fidelity aside, I do think the PCE version is better overall. As you mentioned, Jag Raiden just doesn't play or feel like 'Raiden'!

 

Myself personally, those issues aside I feel Jag Raiden is the best home version next to the PS1 version. It looks good, doesn't have the absurd flicker of the PCE one, has no start-back mode, and I dig the new tunes made for the game. I just wish the tunes and sound effects were beefier. A casualty of being an early release.

 

Unfortunately, and it's a rare occasion, but I can't follow you on this one. I'm really not too keen at all on Jag Raiden.

 

I dislike the lack of an autofire function, the deliberately decreased fire rate of the red/spread power-up (we've discussed before, as I remember you saying the power output of each round was compensated as a result), the scrolling framerate of the game - I feel - is atrocious, as the game just feels dull, looks grainy and lacks the polish that makes Raiden such a beautiful game to behold, graphically. Jag Raiden is just so 'brown' as well. The Jag controller hardly makes for the best tool for the job either, even if I am lucky enough to have one of Danny Galaga's excellent RFCommanders (great for Zero5 too).

 

Raiden for the Jag is fine IF you have no other alternatives available or are desperate for a vertical shmup for the Jag.

 

I admit though, I too like the alternate music on offer in the Jag version though. Very cool...

 

It's a matter of perspective. The Japanese arcade version used the checkpoint system which likely explains why most ports followed this format. Even the PS1 Japan Raiden Project has the startback system, while it was changed for the US release to match the US arcade version.

 

This.

 

I have both JPN & PAL releases of Raiden Project for PS1 and, I remember being initially quite shocked (having gotten the JPN version many years later) when I died on the JPN version, to be reset back to a checkpoint with NO recollected power-ups to speak of whatsoever. That 'P' at the end of a used credit is so mega... alas, not to be found in the more 'hardcore' Japanese release. Like Gradius, Raiden on JP PS1 is one of those titles whereby, if you die mid game, quit out and start again.

[+remowilliams]

Raiden for the Jag is fine IF you have no other alternatives available or are desperate [...]

That goes for most of the Jag games available on other platforms...

 

Having both, I've got to go with the PC Engine here by quite a bit.

[Lost Dragon]

Any Jaguar Raiden owners go along with the feelings of the un-named Edge reviewer, who felt Atari would of been better of getting Imagitec to write an original shoot-em-up, rather than spending money on what they (the reviewer) thought was such a 'non-eventful licence' ( ie not a bad game, just the wrong game, one which did absolutely nothing for the Jaguar cause, being based on a then, 4-year old coin-op and offering nothing that had'nt been done in 1 way or another on lesser machines etc)?.

 

Or do you feel Edge was (again) too harsh with it's 5/10 score?.

 

 

Reviewer said Imagitec had made the 'best of a bad job'.

[Tempest]

I thought the Jag version if Raiden was based off the unreleased Falcon version?

[sd32]

Any Jaguar Raiden owners go along with the feelings of the un-named Edge reviewer, who felt Atari would of been better of getting Imagitec to write an original shoot-em-up, rather than spending money on what they (the reviewer) thought was such a 'non-eventful licence' ( ie not a bad game, just the wrong game, one which did absolutely nothing for the Jaguar cause, being based on a then, 4-year old coin-op and offering nothing that had'nt been done in 1 way or another on lesser machines etc)?.

 

Or do you feel Edge was (again) too harsh with it's 5/10 score?.

 

 

Reviewer said Imagitec had made the 'best of a bad job'.

 

To me Raiden is a legendary game, one of my all time favorites, and i love having it on the Jag. It should have been arcade perfect, but instead we got a version that feels pretty unique. So at the end of the day its not that bad.

Regarding the comment about Atari getting Imagitec to do an original game, i think they should. Its not like Raiden was ever a really hot property in the USA, to the point of selling consoles. At that point, the game was old, and people associated it with the 16 bit systems.

 

Wasnt Raiden ported by Imagitec without getting the assets to the game, and rented or bought the arcade game and ported it by playing it?. That sure explains why it feels so diferent from the other versions.

Edited December 30, 2014 by sd32

[Austin]

I thought the Jag version if Raiden was based off the unreleased Falcon version?

 

I'm pretty sure it is. Likewise, those assets were probably moved over to the MS-DOS version (there are lots of similarities between that one and the Jag version for instance, lots of the same art assets and music used).

 

 

Unfortunately, and it's a rare occasion, but I can't follow you on this one. I'm really not too keen at all on Jag Raiden.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

 

While the PCE one feels a little more like the arcade Raiden, I don't find the firing to be all that satisfying, the enemy bullets move too fast, and the on screen flicker is horrendous. I suppose neither version is perfect, but I'll take the Jag version over it.

 

It's funny you mention the word "brown"--that's all I think of when I play the PCE one. The color palette in that one is so muddied, I find the Jag version to be a lot more colorful in an Amiga-ish kind of way. I find the PCE one to look rough in comparison. But again, we'll agree to disagree, ha.

 

On a side note, I wish the second loop in the Jag version was the default loop. The bullets are faster and spaced farther apart and it feels more like the arcade game there. On the first loop enemy bullets fly along way too slow and too close together. Weird design choice if you ask me.

 

 

To me Raiden is a legendary game, one of my all time favorites, and i love having it on the Jag.

 

I feel the same way. The arcade version is one of my all-time favorites and I'm happy to have this fairly unique version on the Jaguar.

 

Atari would of been better of getting Imagitec to write an original shoot-em-up, rather than spending money on what they (the reviewer) thought was such a 'non-eventful licence' ( ie not a bad game, just the wrong game, one which did absolutely nothing for the Jaguar cause, being based on a then, 4-year old coin-op and offering nothing that had'nt been done in 1 way or another on lesser machines etc)? Or do you feel Edge was (again) too harsh with it's 5/10 score?

 

I definitely disagree with the reviewer. Raiden was one of the most popular arcade games of the early 1990's (at least here in the USA) and I feel Atari did right by having it brought over. Sure, it was a few years old by the time the Jaguar hit, but there hadn't been an arcade-perfect port done before and what we got on the Jag was a lot closer than anything else prior (not counting ports to obscure Japanese computers). It's also the kind of game that gets hardcore gamers excited in a system and every platform needs games like these (until Tempest 2000, the Jag really had very little of that). I remember ECM of GameFan magazine highly praising the Jag version of Raiden when it hit. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

[Lost Dragon]

Trouble with Edge is it's policy of not naming the reviewers! (though i'm pretty sure i know who reviewed Defender 2000 and gave it 3/10...).

Doubt reviewer of Raiden was aware of the games Falcon origins, as if he (?) were, you'd have seen even more hate and a big rant about it being ported from another failed Atari system etc, in true Edge style.

As for getting Imagitec to write an original game instead...least we forget, we never saw Space Junk get finished on MCD, Falcon, let alone Jaguar CD, Freelancer was never finished on Jag CD, nor PS1 (and i've only ever seen that 1 screen shot from Gamesmaster).So maybe i'd best borrow that Time Machine once we're done not hiring Rebellion and cancel Imagitecs contract as well, as Dino Dudes as well did'nt do the Jaguar any favours and they never delivered the goods on flapship original games.

So that's Rebellion, ATD (for Blue Lightning CD) and Now Imagitec...going to be be a busy day :-)

[Lost Dragon]

@sd32:I do know ATD had to 'camp out' as it were at a friendly arcade owners place with a blanket over the cabinet as they video taped Super Sprint, whilst a team memember played and had a portable tape player recording the music, for the ST conversion of Super Sprint.

[JAGUAR]

the music on the jag version is AWESOME. go jag version.

[Tempest]

I think Dino Dudes was another Falcon to Jaguar port. I wonder why they didn't snag Steel Talons why they were at it?

[JagChris]

Steel Talons! I know! what the hell man. Just duh.

[Lost Dragon]

That the MD (a machine so ill-suited to the game) got a conversion of Steel Talons, yet the Jaguar (which would of handled it with ease) did'nt....just beggars belief to me to this very day....

[+remowilliams]

Yeah, the Jag certainly could have had a decent Steel Talons port. Don't think it would have exactly changed its fate much, but that would have been nice.

[Lost Dragon]

Doubt Steel Talons would have done anything for Jaguar situation, as it's hardly a system seller given it's age, but for those of us who had bought the console, it'd been a fantastic addition to the machines libary.

[Lynxpro]

That the MD (a machine so ill-suited to the game) got a conversion of Steel Talons, yet the Jaguar (which would of handled it with ease) did'nt....just beggars belief to me to this very day....

 

Blame the royalty dispute at the time between Atari Corp and Atari Games - which Time Warner later had to settle on behalf of both parties - as to why the Jaguar didn't get the Atari Games arcade conversions like they did with the Lynx.

 

Every Atari Games arcade title should've been ported to the Jag back then. Hell, Gauntlet (IV) should've been the pack-in game. It was phenomenal on the Genesis and came out about the same time as the Jaguar console release.

[Lynxpro]

@sd32:I do know ATD had to 'camp out' as it were at a friendly arcade owners place with a blanket over the cabinet as they video taped Super Sprint, whilst a team memember played and had a portable tape player recording the music, for the ST conversion of Super Sprint.

 

Didn't that debut on the ST before even Tengen - excuse me, Atari Games Corp - released it for the NES?

 

Heck, even with Tengen being Atari Games, I seem to recall a discussion that Steve Woita had to hand draw the cars - or something to that effect - for the NES version.

 

Steve has been mentioning over at Facebook that he's interested in writing some new 2600 games. If only he had done some Jag stuff back then.

[Lost Dragon]

A certain cough..UK , Retro Gaming magazine claimed in it's making of...that NES Super Sprint was released in 1989, ST version in 1987..but then it also was'nt aware who did the ST version, only it was'nt Catalyst Coders...but then what do i know, i'd only bought said magazine and knew myself it was ATD as i'd read the interview in another UK magazine, that at best only devoted a few pages each month to Retro....

Ohh must'nt go there..or there'll be trouble.

[Justin222]

When I bought it I was disappointed that so much of the screen was covered by a panel.

[Austin]

When I bought it I was disappointed that so much of the screen was covered by a panel.

 

I'd say that's better than that same part of the screen being covered by.. uh, a blank, black space, like in many other home versions of it.