peteym5 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm waiting for Video61, Kjmann and Peteym to kick in, so they can share their point of view about piracy with us. Allright, I am here, now what? Some people had to be warned about being a problem on the Venture thread, now our names have to be bought up in another thread we did not even start. Any media can be replicated, look at all the controversy with what started with Napster, then Kazaa, and current going on with Bit Torrent websites. Newsgroups is another thing going on. But have to keep in mind when you download via P2P, you are also sharing that file with your IP address showing up. A legal firm representing the copyright holder(s) can contact your Service Provider and take legal action. About the whole cartridge thing. Back in the early days when carts were mainstream, ROM burning equipment was not cheap to come by, so that protected better than using disks. Now with these flash chip cartridges, stuff can be copied, but is still more expensive and difficult than other media. Do not never believe that a programmer can make something to detect the presence of a flash cartridge instead of an ROM. Those things are going be affected differently by writes in the $D5xx area or have a different # of banks. Now where exactly did I post that I entitled everyone is a pirate on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I'm waiting for Video61, Kjmann and Peteym to kick in, so they can share their point of view about piracy with us. Allright, I am here, now what? Some people had to be warned about being a problem on the Venture thread, now our names have to be bought up in another thread we did not even start. Any media can be replicated, look at all the controversy with what started with Napster, then Kazaa, and current going on with Bit Torrent websites. Newsgroups is another thing going on. But have to keep in mind when you download via P2P, you are also sharing that file with your IP address showing up. A legal firm representing the copyright holder(s) can contact your Service Provider and take legal action. About the whole cartridge thing. Back in the early days when carts were mainstream, ROM burning equipment was not cheap to come by, so that protected better than using disks. Now with these flash chip cartridges, stuff can be copied, but is still more expensive and difficult than other media. Do not never believe that a programmer can make something to detect the presence of a flash cartridge instead of an ROM. Those things are going be affected differently by writes in the $D5xx area or have a different # of banks. Now where exactly did I post that I entitled everyone is a pirate on here? It was other people on that thread who construed what I said into that, but was nothing that I never said. Edited January 20, 2015 by peteofborg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I personally view software which is no longer available from a legitimate supplier as abandonware - so I own all the games I have as original purchased copies (plus backups wherever I can) UNLESS there is NO way of obtaining the software. When I was a kid there were no stores in my area selling Atari games. I remember being so excited on a trip to Disneyland that I could go to Toys R' Us and buy some games for my computer. Other than that, downloading from BBSes and copy parties were pretty much the only way a kid like myself in those days could easily get games. Let me give you an example. I can fully understand your frustration when you saw your game being copied, with the financial outlay and effort you had to make to get the game out there. It's not an Atari thing, my example is what it is, but it is the effect of piracy - I do not doubt that if the pirates had bought legitimate copies of Plastron we would have continued our other games - we could make them work with just 2000/3000 copies sold each... That's assuming that people who pirated your game would have purchased it, which is likely not the case. That's a difficult one. Also, I'm sure you assumed that some piracy would take place, so it must not have been a surprise either, although a bit of a kick in the pants to see it up close and personal. Every platform had rampant piracy... all my friends with different makes of computers (Apple, C64, IBM), all had pirated software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenjennings Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Whether or not a development company writes software for a platform is a matter of the economics. A company is not a charity. They need to pay employees, utilities, rent, what not. Some developers may prefer a platform, because they like it more than another, but in the end practicality and return on the investment wins. Its a matter of the size of the installed base and whether or not the fraction that would buy the software is large enough to justify writing software for them. (entirely made up numbers). If 90% of computer users pirate software, and 10% of people don't, then the potential buyers for computer platform X which sold 100,000 computers is a maximum of 10,000 people. Computer platform Y has an installed base of 5,000,000 units, so the potential audience is 500,000 people. Mega Space Blasters IV, and SuperDuper Calculator do not appeal to everyone equally. Not everyone who could buy the software will do so, therefor the audience for the software is a fraction of the potential buyers. Atari had a lower, total installed base of computers. Over time, the C64 had more. Given the same rate of piracy on both platforms the C64 had a better return on investment. Based on what I've heard from developers it is also probable that back in the day Atari users were more technically proficient, (and smarter, taller, and better looking than average C64 users), and the percentage of piracy was higher for the smaller installed base of Atari computers which made it even less profitable to write software for the Atari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 @bill Or people will get better at selling direct and or making something of the ways we have to compete with free. Like it was said, if a small increase in buying happens, it can be a big impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Allright, I am here, now what? Some people had to be warned about being a problem on the Venture thread, now our names have to be bought up in another thread we did not even start. Any media can be replicated, look at all the controversy with what started with Napster, then Kazaa, and current going on with Bit Torrent websites. Newsgroups is another thing going on. But have to keep in mind when you download via P2P, you are also sharing that file with your IP address showing up. A legal firm representing the copyright holder(s) can contact your Service Provider and take legal action. About the whole cartridge thing. Back in the early days when carts were mainstream, ROM burning equipment was not cheap to come by, so that protected better than using disks. Now with these flash chip cartridges, stuff can be copied, but is still more expensive and difficult than other media. Do not never believe that a programmer can make something to detect the presence of a flash cartridge instead of an ROM. Those things are going be affected differently by writes in the $D5xx area or have a different # of banks. Now where exactly did I post that I entitled everyone is a pirate on here? It was other people on that thread who construed what I said into that, but was nothing that I never said. At the moment I wrote that I was under the impression you needed only one fake account, which was already banned by Albert. But later you decided again you needed another account to emphasize you were right (since obviously no one agrees and agreed with you, you simply create 'yes-sayers' for your own benefit). You simply don't get it. Piracy is not an issue in a8 scene. And you and your 'friends' have repeated over and over again that you chose for carts because of piracy. That attitude is abject and infamous, and is an insult to a8 users. But you can breath freely, I'm not going to discuss this with you (or virtually any of your puppets) again. I'm really surprised to see another of your creations (nicknames) here. You simply do not get the hint of a ban? Edited January 20, 2015 by ProWizard 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 And again, for every call of whatever medium going "too mainstream" and becoming less interesting as a result, it's easy enough to argue that we have as much creativity as ever. It's all too easy to focus on the mega-hits and not the creations that exist just outside of the mainstream, yet are still accessible to everyone. Piracy is also rampant in every medium, no matter the type or how modest the scope. This includes the books I've created, and I'm sure it will carry over to the film once that see wide release. This directly affects me in a lot of ways, which is obviously frustrating to no end. On a smaller scale, even if 1 out of every 50 people who pirated something bought it instead of getting a free ride, it actually could make a huge difference, and the difference between either getting more stuff from that individual or more stuff in that vein getting greenlit by publishers. Piracy of ideas is probably in a different category. In that people copy ideas all the time - reuse them and add their spin on it. In a way - you could become a trendsetter instead of a rehash follower - not so much with 'original' ideas - because nothing is ever 'new' under the sun. The likes of Peter Jackson and James Cameron etc - foster archaic ideas with their movies - and are not trendsetters at all in that regard. ie. they encourage violence. The old world is one of violence supreme. Whereas if we want to evolve and grow up/mature as a race/humanity etc - we need to encourage the use of anti-violence - for our very survival. Good ideas tend to cross all boundaries - and are readily accepted by anyone. And that if people are copying you - then you are doing something right. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I don't believe that anyone here wants to rip-off anybody currently creating games for the Atari 8-bit. I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, but I don't think anyone would at the moment. And if anyone did, the rest of us would be against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I can only imagine rampant paranoia or a towering sense of self-importance to be at the root of any draconian anti-piracy measures found in software written today for a thirty year old computer. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Piracy of ideas is probably in a different category. In that people copy ideas all the time - reuse them and add their spin on it. In a way - you could become a trendsetter instead of a rehash follower - not so much with 'original' ideas - because nothing is ever 'new' under the sun. I'm still not sure about, what you wanted to point to, when you started this thread. The likes of Peter Jackson and James Cameron etc - foster archaic ideas with their movies - and are not trendsetters at all in that regard. ie. they encourage violence. The old world is one of violence supreme. Particular this sentence "The Old World..." There is no better "new World" . It's only that Wolfes don't need to kill Sheeps every day to defeat their hunger. It may look save for Sheeps when they see Wolfes defending their lifes from other Wolfes, while the Wolfes only defend their Food of tomorrow. And, well actually, if the Sheep dies before it became Dinner to the Wolfes, it had a safe life. Safer that a Sheep that walks alone... Whereas if we want to evolve and grow up/mature as a race/humanity etc - we need to encourage the use of anti-violence - for our very survival. Good ideas tend to cross all boundaries - and are readily accepted by anyone. And that if people are copying you - then you are doing something right. It's more like "They try copying you, because they think, you are doing something right". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't expect anyone to change their mind, reading any discussion about piracy - by now most of us, would have heard both sides and then some. I see little point in getting hot headed about it, no matter what side you are on, in this. Everyone has to make up their own mind - what their views are, and why.. We can't go back and change things - of course. Even if you could - would anything change? Regarding my views about violence. Any student of history, will know our history is full of it - and it's likely this will never change in the future - unless attitudes change about violence. To fix any problem - it has to be acknowledged - so that it can eventually be fixed. And it's always the case - we are always responsible for any mess we make. People who say that God can only fix things up, etc etc are very ignorant about what they think they know... Of course we can have a better future - if we work towards it - instead of allowing things to get worse and worse as time goes by. The answer is always education - for people to be informed with accurate information - instead of being told the most silly notions. eg. the Pope in Manila spoke about how holy the family is. Anyone with eyes will know that the Philippines - is vastly overpopulated - and this overpopulation there, is creating huge problems. Being a catholic country - contraception is frowned upon. Common sense says that they'd be better off with smaller families - just like China needed to curb it's own population too. This should be done sensibly - and the whole world needs to be on this same path - to downsize it's population. Human beings are actually a lot dumber than the various animal species - if they continue to overpopulate this Earth like a plague of rats. And even if we hold very diverse views - we still have to find some middle ground to agree upon, without resorting to violence and bloodshed, etc etc. Computer games could actually promote understanding and enlightenment on this kind of issue - it won't be easy but it could be possible? Instead of remaining ignorant and dumb about anything that deals with 'truth' - the way things are. We certainly have to get away from the notion - that money is always the most important thing in life - and what you can buy with it etc.. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I don't expect anyone to change their mind, reading any discussion about piracy - by now most of us, would have heard both sides and then some. I see little point in getting hot headed about it, no matter what side you are on, in this. Everyone has to make up their own mind - what their views are, and why.. We can't go back and change things - of course. Even if you could - would anything change? Regarding my views about violence. Any student of history, will know our history is full of it - and it's likely this will never change in the future - unless attitudes change about violence. To fix any problem - it has to be acknowledged - so that it can eventually be fixed. And it's always the case - we are always responsible for any mess we make. People who say that God can only fix things up, etc etc are very ignorant about what they think they know... Of course we can have a better future - if we work towards it - instead of allowing things to get worse and worse as time goes by. The answer is always education - for people to be informed with accurate information - instead of being told the most silly notions. eg. the Pope in Manila spoke about how holy the family is. Anyone with eyes will know that the Philippines - is vastly overpopulated - and this overpopulation there, is creating huge problems. Being a catholic country - contraception is frowned upon. Common sense says that they'd be better off with smaller families - just like China needed to curb it's own population too. This should be done sensibly - and the whole world needs to be on this same path - to downsize it's population. Human beings are actually a lot dumber than the various animal species - if they continue to overpopulate this Earth like a plague of rats. And even if we hold very diverse views - we still have to find some middle ground to agree upon, without resorting to violence and bloodshed, etc etc. Computer games could actually promote understanding and enlightenment on this kind of issue - it won't be easy but it could be possible? Instead of remaining ignorant and dumb about anything that deals with 'truth' - the way things are. We certainly have to get away from the notion - that money is always the most important thing in life - and what you can buy with it etc.. Harvey Why is it always people of a particular political/(a)religious persuasion that think they are above the forum rules? Has anyone else noticed that? Edited January 28, 2015 by BillyHW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Computer games could actually promote understanding and enlightenment on this kind of issue - it won't be easy but it could be possible? Instead of remaining ignorant and dumb about anything that deals with 'truth' - the way things are. We certainly have to get away from the notion - that money is always the most important thing in life - and what you can buy with it etc.. Harvey Why do I fail to see how Pac-Man or Pole Position or any other game for that matter will promote "enlightenment" !, if anything they will promote repetitive stress injury! and truth? what is the truth?, the only truth we are sure about is the fact that we all will die one day and everything will end as far as we know, the rest is just speculation, so how can you classify one group of people as "ignorant" and the other "in the know" when neither one knows about the absolute truth, is there even such a thing as absolute truth? So my personal view is that believe what you want to believe but don't kill me because I think differently.... Edited January 28, 2015 by atari8warez 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Why is it always people of a particular political/(a)religious persuasion that think they are above the forum rules? Has anyone else noticed that? OK.. I will not harp on about this any further here, as I haven't read the forum rules - and if there was one that stood out that I have crossed over - I am sorry for doing that. My political ranting as such - is meant to be thought provoking - without upsetting anyone. I know that in a forum about computer hardware/software/gaming - that political discussion may be seen to be irrelevant - but political overtones are everywhere - in all media, and is very much present within computer games. Of course I should put it in a topic headed this way - as I am getting sidetracked from piracy? If I am promoting a political view - it is that of what truth is? That for everyone to decide for themselves what that is for them. Some people probably prefer not to speak about it, whereas others welcome the discussion? I think a computer game about political values, etc etc could be written? Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyHW Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 OK.. I will not harp on about this any further here, as I haven't read the forum rules - and if there was one that stood out that I have crossed over - I am sorry for doing that. My political ranting as such - is meant to be thought provoking - without upsetting anyone. I know that in a forum about computer hardware/software/gaming - that political discussion may be seen to be irrelevant - but political overtones are everywhere - in all media, and is very much present within computer games. Of course I should put it in a topic headed this way - as I am getting sidetracked from piracy? If I am promoting a political view - it is that of what truth is? That for everyone to decide for themselves what that is for them. Some people probably prefer not to speak about it, whereas others welcome the discussion? I think a computer game about political values, etc etc could be written? Harvey No politics or religion on AtariAge. Unless you can post in the form of a game: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Why do I fail to see how Pac-Man or Pole Position or any other game for that matter will promote "enlightenment" !, if anything they will promote repetitive stress injury! and truth? what is the truth?, the only truth we are sure about is the fact that we all will die one day and everything will end as far as we know, the rest is just speculation, so how can you classify one group of people as "ignorant" and the other "in the know" when neither one knows about the absolute truth, is there even such a thing as absolute truth? So my personal view is that believe what you want to believe but don't kill me because I think differently.... You are absolutely right. There are certain things that we all know is absolutely correct - but is not publicly aired nor acknowledged. The truth is we are all the same - whether you be brainy, average - not so average etc etc. Pretty, ordinary, strong, weak we all share the same kind of human experience here on this Earth - and this is the only reality we know of - for certain. Hence we are all equal - and that is what everybody wants? But a few - want more than that - more than their fair share. It is OK for someone to go out and work for what they can - you are entitled to receive the reward for your own hard effort. Like animals do - to collect enough food to last them through the harsh winter (like squirrels do) - but it is not OK for someone to store up enough reserves that will last them for some hundreds of years - while other people have to starve. The other thing that ought to be acknowledged universally - is that everyone has the right to live - to live their own life. The 'do not kill' message is not clear enough. So perhaps it's the 'Do no harm to others' is clearer? also 'Do no harm to oneself'. Religious or political nutters - who insist upon killing others for the sake of a political or religious message are the worse - who have lost sense of any kind of reality - but live in some fantasy land of their own, who insist upon dragging the world into theirs - are truly lost. And confused, but don't know it. Which brings to light - what brainwashing can do - and we are all subjected to this in one form or another. If I promote anything - that would be anti-violence and anti-war. And still everyone should have the freedom to think what they like - because people do that anyway - and it is important for people to be able to express their views, etc. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Is this one of those topics that you read the next morning after you posted it and swear never post while drinking ever again? Increasingly so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 A computer game simulation involving politics, media, donations, etc... would be a great simulation type challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 and it is important for people to be able to express their views, etc. Harvey Absolutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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